Improvements necessary for next season

[Bedfordspurs]

Not really, but in general, he is by far the most likely to get a goal of the players who aren't first team regulars.

Unfortunately you can't keep a player for the odd cameo and the odd goal

We need game changers off the bench and players who push the first 11. Chadli came on campus palace and showed what he can do. When he got his next chance (was Europe I think) he was gash...

The guy is better off moving off to where he can get regular games for his own careers sake. He has been dropped from Belgiums 22 and this was a player that Wilmots was raving about 2 years ago

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

We finished 3rd in a two horse race. I know that's the line that has been trotted out by some in the media but it's quite apt.

I don't think it is apt at all. The only difference is that we don't have bragging rights over that lot down the road. The reality is that we were the ones that provided Leicester with any meaningful challenge to the title. We didn't throw it away like Arsenal and Emirates Marketing Project did. People would not be half as upset if it were any other team except for Arsenal. In another world, people would have been ecstatic if we got CL football via fourth place from the last kick of the season. The last 3 games of this season should not and do not define how our season has been, yet there are plenty going on as if it has.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I don't think it is apt at all. The only difference is that we don't have bragging rights over that lot down the road. The reality is that we were the ones that provided Leicester with any meaningful challenge to the title. We didn't throw it away like Arsenal and Emirates Marketing Project did. People would not be half as upset if it were any other team except for Arsenal. In another world, people would have been ecstatic if we got CL football via fourth place from the last kick of the season. The last 3 games of this season should not and do not define how our season has been, yet there are plenty going on as if it has.

We were in the title race, Arsenal were not, we still finished below them. It hurts more to finish below Arsenal as you say, but I would still be bothered had Emirates Marketing Project leapfrogged us instead of Arsenal.

I believe the original point that Dubai picked up on was your view that we have become more mentally strong. I agree with Dubai, we are no stronger mentally now than we were in 2009/10 or 2012/13 in my opinion.

 

[Pirate55]

We were in the title race, Arsenal were not, we still finished below them. It hurts more to finish below Arsenal as you say, but I would still be bothered had Emirates Marketing Project leapfrogged us instead of Arsenal.

I believe the original point that Dubai picked up on was your view that we have become more mentally strong. I agree with Dubai, we are no stronger mentally now than we were in 2009/10 or 2012/13 in my opinion.

Agreed. This team has not yet proved it is mentally strong. Indeed, the times when we needed mental strength - Arse h and a, Chelsea h and a, WBA h, Leicester h and Saudi Sportswashing Machine a - mental strength was conspicuous by its absence. We failed to win a single one of those games. I know we are a young team but we are still far from the finished article in this respect imo. We definitely need to improve on this aspect in future.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Agreed. This team has not yet proved it is mentally strong. Indeed, the times when we needed mental strength - Arse h and a, Chelsea h and a, WBA h, Leicester h and Saudi Sportswashing Machine a - mental strength was conspicuous by its absence. We failed to win a single one of those games. I know we are a young team but we are still far from the finished article in this respect imo. We definitely need to improve on this aspect in future.

I don't think all of those games were due to mental strength.... Experience perhaps. Or even a manager who would change the shape and nature of the team to protect a lead. But not really mental strength. Saudi Sportswashing Machine away is the obvious exception, however I would still put this down to experience. We had got it back to 2-1 and were on top when Mitrovic got sent off. We immediately seemed to throw everyone forward instead of realising that we had a full 20 minutes or so to get only 1 goal.... It was similar when we played Saudi Sportswashing Machine at home, they equalised and we seemed to immediately go hell for leather pressing for a winner, leaving ourselves exposed to the counter.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

We were in the title race, Arsenal were not, we still finished below them. It hurts more to finish below Arsenal as you say, but I would still be bothered had Emirates Marketing Project leapfrogged us instead of Arsenal.

I believe the original point that Dubai picked up on was your view that we have become more mentally strong. I agree with Dubai, we are no stronger mentally now than we were in 2009/10 or 2012/13 in my opinion.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree then. It may just be me, but I'd rather be in a title race and finish third then throw away the title with form after Xmas and then sneak second on the last game of the season from the other side capitulating. Yes we should not have thrown second away, but what does it really mean. As I said, the last 3 games of the season do not define the success of this season, and overall I am very proud of this season.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree then. It may just be me, but I'd rather be in a title race and finish third then throw away the title with form after Xmas and then sneak second on the last game of the season from the other side capitulating. Yes we should not have thrown second away, but what does it really mean. As I said, the last 3 games of the season do not define the success of this season, and overall I am very proud of this season.

I see your point, but they still finished above us despite at least half of their fanbase being against the manager and a long injury list. Don't take my post to mean I'm not proud because I am, but I still believe we could and should have achieved more.

I know some on here like to dismiss the idea of finishing below Arsenal as not much to worry about. If anything, Arsenal have become small time by fixating on us so much (something they accuse us of doing to them), but 21 years in a row finishing below your rival whilst playing in the same division as them for the entirety i.e. no relegations is not good enough. And yes, I can take whatever Arsenal fans throw at me, I'm not concerned with getting banter from them as we have more than enough ammo to throw back at them given how poorly they have played and how they have arguably fecked up bigger than we have. But I still believe it is important for the club to finally get one over on them. The longer it goes on, the harder it will be to topple them. As others have pointed out, there may come a time in which we have to finish above them to win the league. I don't care what anyone says, our recent history weighs on the fans, particularly those who go to WHL regularly and that nervous energy transfers to the players.

As for the last 3 games, ultimately, they have led to our undoing and I do worry that this will continue into next season so I don't think it's as simple as just a bad few games. The manner of the defeats and the performances is very worrying, especially Saudi Sportswashing Machine. I'd argue this is our worst result this decade.

 

[the dza]

I don't think all of those games were due to mental strength.... Experience perhaps. Or even a manager who would change the shape and nature of the team to protect a lead. But not really mental strength. Saudi Sportswashing Machine away is the obvious exception, however I would still put this down to experience. We had got it back to 2-1 and were on top when Mitrovic got sent off. We immediately seemed to throw everyone forward instead of realising that we had a full 20 minutes or so to get only 1 goal.... It was similar when we played Saudi Sportswashing Machine at home, they equalised and we seemed to immediately go hell for leather pressing for a winner, leaving ourselves exposed to the counter.

I would say that making poor decisions under pressure (such as going too gung-ho at 2-1 with 20 mins to go) is a sign of mental weakness. But I agree that it can change with experience -- hopefully, the players will have learned something and will act differently in a similar situation in future.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

I see your point, but they still finished above us despite at least half of their fanbase being against the manager and a long injury list. Don't take my post to mean I'm not proud because I am, but I still believe we could and should have achieved more.

I know some on here like to dismiss the idea of finishing below Arsenal as not much to worry about. If anything, Arsenal have become small time by fixating on us so much (something they accuse us of doing to them), but 21 years in a row finishing below your rival whilst playing in the same division as them for the entirety i.e. no relegations is not good enough. And yes, I can take whatever Arsenal fans throw at me, I'm not concerned with getting banter from them as we have more than enough ammo to throw back at them given how poorly they have played and how they have arguably fecked up bigger than we have. But I still believe it is important for the club to finally get one over on them. The longer it goes on, the harder it will be to topple them. As others have pointed out, there may come a time in which we have to finish above them to win the league. I don't care what anyone says, our recent history weighs on the fans, particularly those who go to WHL regularly and that nervous energy transfers to the players.

As for the last 3 games, ultimately, they have led to our undoing and I do worry that this will continue into next season so I don't think it's as simple as just a bad few games. The manner of the defeats and the performances is very worrying, especially Saudi Sportswashing Machine. I'd argue this is our worst result this decade.

That's all true, but we did it with a squad who were a lot younger and inexperienced. We have overachieved this season and they haven't.

And you're right with them continually finishing above us is something that is not good enough, but we are where we are. Defining success as finishing above them is small time. There's no point in looking back, and we just have to focus on being the best team that we can be. Despite not having as much money, there's not much difference between the two teams. Being a regular at WHL myself, I know what you mean about this weighing heavy with the fans. I am sick of the "stand up if you hate Arsenal". I'd rather we just not sing about them except for at NLDs. I'd much rather we just focus on ourselves and support the team.

I don't think that the last 3 games is symptomatic of anything other than our team feeling deflated after losing out on the title and the criticism from the Chelsea game. They were really up for the title, and like us were probably gutted that the dream died, especially to a fairytale like Leicester. This lot will come back stronger next season. With a good pre-season behind them (although I am worried that some of our team will be going to the Olympics) and a few signings, I think they will be better for it. Yes, we have things to work on and yes, other teams will be stronger but so will we.

 

[Jurgen the German]

That's all true, but we did it with a squad who were a lot younger and inexperienced. We have overachieved this season and they haven't.

And you're right with them continually finishing above us is something that is not good enough, but we are where we are. Defining success as finishing above them is small time. There's no point in looking back, and we just have to focus on being the best team that we can be. Despite not having as much money, there's not much difference between the two teams. Being a regular at WHL myself, I know what you mean about this weighing heavy with the fans. I am sick of the "stand up if you hate Arsenal". I'd rather we just not sing about them except for at NLDs. I'd much rather we just focus on ourselves and support the team.

I don't think that the last 3 games is symptomatic of anything other than our team feeling deflated after losing out on the title and the criticism from the Chelsea game. They were really up for the title, and like us were probably gutted that the dream died, especially to a fairytale like Leicester. This lot will come back stronger next season. With a good pre-season behind them (although I am worried that some of our team will be going to the Olympics) and a few signings, I think they will be better for it. Yes, we have things to work on and yes, other teams will be stronger but so will we.

I wouldn't define success as simply as finishing above them, I will leave that to Arsenal to say things like that. But we still have some pretty big mental obstacles to overcome as a club:

• No title in 50 years
• No win at Stamford Bridge in nearly 30 years
• No FA Cup in 25 years
• Finishing above Arsenal just once in the PL era with only 1 win at their ground in that same timeframe.

I fully accept the players and manager were all deflated for the final 3 games (Poch meeting with Fergie did not help the situation either), but they still should have had more about them to have won at least one of the final 3 games, or at the very least, to not lose the final 2 games.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

I wouldn't define success as simply as finishing above them, I will leave that to Arsenal to say things like that. But we still have some pretty big mental obstacles to overcome as a club:

• No title in 50 years
• No win at Stamford Bridge in nearly 30 years
• No FA Cup in 25 years
• Finishing above Arsenal just once in the PL era with only 1 win at their ground in that same timeframe.

I fully accept the players and manager were all deflated for the final 3 games (Poch meeting with Fergie did not help the situation either), but they still should have had more about them to have won at least one of the final 3 games, or at the very least, to not lose the final 2 games.

We do and of those number 1 and 3 are the most important to me. If we achieve those without a win at the Emirates or Stamford Bridge, I wouldn't give a crap. And yes, we should have had more about us, but they will learn.

 

[Pirate55]

I don't think all of those games were due to mental strength.... Experience perhaps. Or even a manager who would change the shape and nature of the team to protect a lead. But not really mental strength. Saudi Sportswashing Machine away is the obvious exception, however I would still put this down to experience. We had got it back to 2-1 and were on top when Mitrovic got sent off. We immediately seemed to throw everyone forward instead of realising that we had a full 20 minutes or so to get only 1 goal.... It was similar when we played Saudi Sportswashing Machine at home, they equalised and we seemed to immediately go hell for leather pressing for a winner, leaving ourselves exposed to the counter.

Unfortunately though its not just those games where we showed a lack of mental strength. We gave away 20 points from leading positions this season - the highest in the league. In addition to that, we didn't manage to turn our plethora of draws into wins on many occasions in the last 10 minuted of games (iirc only twice - against Emirates Marketing Project a and Watford a) . A mentally strong side with a winning mentality (like Man U , Liverpool and Arsenal in the past) were famed for last minute winning goals. Leicester did it on several occasions this year (most notably against us at WHL) and won the Premier league as a result.

This is the aspect I want us to improve on most next season and become 95 minute winners rather than just "80 minute champions". There is nothing quite as uplifting in football as coming back from games having scored a late winner.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Unfortunately though its not just those games where we showed a lack of mental strength. We gave away 20 points from leading positions this season - the highest in the league. In addition to that, we didn't manage to turn our plethora of draws into wins on many occasions in the last 10 minuted of games (iirc only twice - against Emirates Marketing Project a and Watford a) . A mentally strong side with a winning mentality (like Man U , Liverpool and Arsenal in the past) were famed for last minute winning goals. Leicester did it on several occasions this year (most notably against us at WHL) and won the Premier league as a result.

This is the aspect I want us to improve on most next season and become 95 minute winners rather than just "80 minute champions". There is nothing quite as uplifting in football as coming back from games having scored a late winner.

Yes we gave up a lot of points from winning positions this season, but that was partly due to the fact that we were ahead in so many games, when you are ahead going into the last third of a game the opposition will attack you in numbers. While you call out us losing 20 points from winning positions, remember that we also gained a lot of points from losing positions, so while you may use the former to evidence lack of 'mental strength' then surely the latter evidences that we clearly do have 'mental strength'?

As well as the late wins against Watford and City that you mentioned (4 points gained) we also got a late winner against Sunderland away, came back from behind twice against Swansea away, turned losing 1 - 0 into a 3 - 1 win at Palace, came back from 1 - 0 down to draw away at Liverpool, same against Everton away, recovered from conceding in the 1st minute away to Bournmouth to win 5-1, came back from 1 - 0 down against Sunderland to win 4 - 1 at WHL, came back from 1 - 0 down to win 4 - 1 at home to City and came back from 1 - 0 down at home to beat Swansea 2 - 1. We were also behind against Arsenal at WHL before getting the eventual draw.... That is 23 points gained - 17 of them gained from losing positions. So it's clear that we turn losses/draws into wins just as often as we turn wins into draws/defeats.

As I said before I don't think 'mental strength' has anything to do with it. A lack of experience perhaps? Maybe if leading going into the last third of games then we should change our style of play and shut up shop a bit? Or perhaps we should do this soon after going ahead? I think we can also be a lot more clinical on the counter attack - against WBA at home for instance we had probably 4 occasions when we broke with 4 against 3 or 3 against 2 and failed to make it 2-0. I don't put that down to "mental strength" just an improvement required in the player's decision making or finishing.

You talk about the last 10 minutes of games so I took a look at our results across the whole season.... During the last 10 minutes of games we gave up a grand total of 6 points (twice we turned draws into losses - against Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Leicester and twice we turned wins into draws - against Stoke and Chelsea. But we also gained 6 points in total - turning draws into wins against Sunderland, Watford and Emirates Marketing Project. I don't see any 'mental strength' issues at all in our squad. I just think 2 defeats in rounds 37 and 38 of the PL have led to conclusions that don't necessarily match the reality.

 

[Pirate55]

Yes we gave up a lot of points from winning positions this season, but that was partly due to the fact that we were ahead in so many games, when you are ahead going into the last third of a game the opposition will attack you in numbers. While you call out us losing 20 points from winning positions, remember that we also gained a lot of points from losing positions, so while you may use the former to evidence lack of 'mental strength' then surely the latter evidences that we clearly do have 'mental strength'?

As well as the late wins against Watford and City that you mentioned (4 points gained) we also got a late winner against Sunderland away, came back from behind twice against Swansea away, turned losing 1 - 0 into a 3 - 1 win at Palace, came back from 1 - 0 down to draw away at Liverpool, same against Everton away, recovered from conceding in the 1st minute away to Bournmouth to win 5-1, came back from 1 - 0 down against Sunderland to win 4 - 1 at WHL, came back from 1 - 0 down to win 4 - 1 at home to City and came back from 1 - 0 down at home to beat Swansea 2 - 1. We were also behind against Arsenal at WHL before getting the eventual draw.... That is 23 points gained - 17 of them gained from losing positions. So it's clear that we turn losses/draws into wins just as often as we turn wins into draws/defeats.

As I said before I don't think 'mental strength' has anything to do with it. A lack of experience perhaps? Maybe if leading going into the last third of games then we should change our style of play and shut up shop a bit? Or perhaps we should do this soon after going ahead? I think we can also be a lot more clinical on the counter attack - against WBA at home for instance we had probably 4 occasions when we broke with 4 against 3 or 3 against 2 and failed to make it 2-0. I don't put that down to "mental strength" just an improvement required in the player's decision making or finishing.

You talk about the last 10 minutes of games so I took a look at our results across the whole season.... During the last 10 minutes of games we gave up a grand total of 6 points (twice we turned draws into losses - against Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Leicester and twice we turned wins into draws - against Stoke and Chelsea. But we also gained 6 points in total - turning draws into wins against Sunderland, Watford and Emirates Marketing Project. I don't see any 'mental strength' issues at all in our squad. I just think 2 defeats in rounds 37 and 38 of the PL have led to conclusions that don't necessarily match the reality.

What about the wins we turned into draws against Arsenal (h and a) and WBA at home. Thats a total of another 6 points lost in the last ten minutes of games right there. Add that to your 6 points lost and I make that 12 points lost in the last ten minutes of games.

 

[Finney Is Back]

What about the wins we turned into draws against Arsenal (h and a) and WBA at home. Thats a total of another 6 points lost in the last ten minutes of games right there. Add that to your 6 points lost and I make that 12 points lost in the last ten minutes of games.

You need to be better researched my friend.... In none of those games you mention did the opposition score in the last ten minutes.... Arsenal equalised in the 77th minute at their place and the 76th minute at our place. WBA equalised in the 73rd minute in the game at WHL.

 

[the dza]

I think there's a mental strength that comes with handling the pressure of expectation (winning games when infront, taking the chance to go top of the league and then staying there) that's different from having a go when you're behind in a game/competition with nothing/less to lose. We don't have the first type yet, hopefully we'll get it with experience.

 

[DubaiSpur]

@Gazzasrightboot - Just as a follow on, and to emphasize that the media and assorted pundits are saying very different things now to what they were a month ago....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...s-have-landed--and-they-are-ready-to-rumble/?

The Argentine: Mauricio Pochettino

Tottenham Hotspur

A disciple of his countryman Marcelo Bielsa, Pochettino has turned fast pressing into an art. If just watching his Tottenham team in action is an exhausting process, imagine what it must be like for Harry Kane, Dele Alli, Eric Dier and the rest, obliged to sprint into every tackle.

Direct qualification for the Champions League gives him early opportunity to test his methodology against the sharpest of opponents. And, soon to be in possession of a giant cash machine in the shape of the new White Hart Lane, he will have a muscular presence in the transfer market. The one significant failing in Pochettino’s otherwise swelling CV is the growing suspicion that he may not be able to close the deal. The manner in which his Spurs team went all ‘S.p.u.r.s.y’ within sight of the finishing post hardly suggests the title will be imminently collected.

Prediction for the season
St Totteringham’s Day will come eventually'

So, as I said, a) fudge 'em, and b) we haven't proved anything yet, at least in their eyes.

 

[metalgear]

Poch needs to improve too.

first 10 games he was clueless. until dier and alli snapped into place.
last 5 games too.

lesser teams have been able to put up a better fight with less quality, its effective variations in the lineup, formation and a plan B that Poch needs. i know that theres a gulf of class between the bench and the first eleven, but its not that bad.

 

[metalgear]

@Gazzasrightboot - Just as a follow on, and to emphasize that the media and assorted pundits are saying very different things now to what they were a month ago....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...s-have-landed--and-they-are-ready-to-rumble/?





So, as I said, a) fudge 'em, and b) we haven't proved anything yet, at least in their eyes.

not that but they see a bad fallaway at the end of the season - a reinforcement of the soft-centred spurs where anything could go wrong even if you are 3-0 up at half time?

 

[glorygloryeze]

Poch needs to improve too.

first 10 games he was clueless. until dier and alli snapped into place.
last 5 games too.

First 10 games: won 4, drew 5 lost 1, including a thumping win vs an Aguero/De Bruyneled Emirates Marketing Project outfit (who i believe were top at the time).
Last 5 games included 4-0 demolition of Stoke away.
If that's "clueless", i'll have more "clueless" next season please!

lesser teams have been able to put up a better fight with less quality, its effective variations in the lineup, formation and a plan B that Poch needs. i know that theres a gulf of class between the bench and the first eleven, but its not that bad.

Did those lesser teams put up a better fight than us over a season to finish in the top 3? Or are you only referring to Leicester here? Or do you mean Klopp's Liverpool when you refer to 'lesser teams'?
Whilst i have some similar opinions on the need to vary tactics and plan Bs are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that Poch has NOT overperformed given our squad??
Did you EXPECT top 3/4 at the beginning of the season? I bet you didn't so stop being so harsh on what he's done (our best ever PL finish)