Improvements necessary for next season

[DubaiSpur]

It's very simple really. This team finished third and was in contention for the title in a two horse race. The other teams didn't. Now before my words get twisted, I'm not saying that they had a losing mentality! But, we secured CL way before the penultimate game of the season. If the recent run of results happened in the middle of the season and we finished with a bunch of wins I don't think that changes the winning mentality yet it would in other people's minds.

I'm not sure I get the argument here. We secured CL by finishing at about seventy points, which is what (historically, over the last five years) we've averaged as a regular points total. Nothing particularly exceptional in the number itself, because even in the horrible year when AVB left and Sherwood came in, with us getting thumped left, right and center by teams in a similar manner to how Saudi Sportswashing Machine steamrollered us last week...we still ended with 69 points, just one off our current total. Now, you could well argue that the other teams all devolved into messes and we stood still, thus proving our mental strength (which would tie into your point about our late run of form distracting from that fact)...but that doesn't prove that we're intrinsically *stronger* mentally than teams of the past, just that we were on par when others declined.

When we were knocked out by Borussia Dortmund, we then went on a run where we beat Stoke 4-0 away from home. When we lost to Crystal Palace in the FA Cup, we then went on to beat Fiorentina 3-0. When we were in September and had a run of form in August that read LDDD we ended it with a 4-1 win over Emirates Marketing Project.

And both the teams I mentioned did similar things. Again, you're not proving that this team is mentally stronger than the other two under Harry and AVB, just that it's on par. Which I have no objection to; it's just the constantly repeated statement that it's some miraculously gritty, winning team that puzzles me to a certain extent, when, come the finish line, they really haven't done much that the other two teams didn't do (didn't win anything, didn't get more points. We finished third, but that could easily be argued to be the vagaries of the opposition granting us that place as opposed to our own undoubted improvement), and yet the 09/10 and 12/13 sides are being (imv) very unfairly dismissed as somehow lesser than this one.

It just so happens that our poorest run of form happened at the end of the season. Move that to the beginning and everyone would be saying what a strong, resilient team we have. I know that I'd much rather stick with this team than stick with the others that you mention. Why, because this has the most potential and imho the best attitude. There is a proper team dynamic. They're better than the sum of their parts. Now in my saying that this team has the best winning mentality of any spurs team in recent times, I mean the relentlessness of it all. These young kids believed that they could win the title when a lot of others had knocked them. Say what you will about the lions photo, but that was a measure of his belief. All the other teams that you mentioned were never meaningfully involved in a title fight. You could say that it is because other bigger teams faded away, but the fact is that we didn't when others had.

All this is true (even if the bit about you sticking with this one over the others is just opinion), but the fact remains that we folded in the title race we were involved in, and then finished behind Arsenal again after needing only one point from our final two games to see them off. Now, our objective wasn't to fight for the title, but we were involved in it anyway come March; conversely, the other two teams' objectives were to finish in the Top Four, with the title race never an option. Two of the three teams achieved their objectives (this one and Harry's), one ran it extremely close and didn't, but set a record points total which even this team couldn't surpass, or even match. Now, if we're being brutally analytical, what *extra* winning mentality does this team possess that the others didn't? Yes, they were involved in a title race and everyone started questioning them and gleefully waiting on them to bottle it so they could go fellate their chosen golden boys Leicester, but the fact remains that our boys....collapsed when put under pressure. They did actually crumble like people were predicting (and clammily hoping) they would. Yes, they fell back on their original objective which was achieved...but then, Harry's side achieved the same objective and the same points in what was arguably a harder time to do it, when the Sky Four weren't yet impeachable, which is now not the case anymore.

I really don't think we can take the fact that we stayed consistent and achieved our objectives as proof of this team being mentally *stronger* than previous ones, is all. On par? Yes, definitely, and I won't stand for anyone telling me we're weaker now than we were in 09/10 or 12/13. But better? I highly doubt that.

As for AVB's team getting more points. Sure they did, but relative to the rest of the league you and I both know where they finished. Relatively speaking, we were the third best team in the league and we had a drop off as soon as the title looked pretty much gone. Put another way, you could argue that that season showed that it was easier to get points because 4 other teams got even more points than us despite it being a record absolute points season.

Actually, I'd argue that AVB's team was weaker than the one we have now. He had Dempsey to fulfill the role that we now rely on a combination of 22.5 million-pound Son and Chadli to fulfill - his defense was Daws and Verts, unsuited to the high line he played. Fresh from the loss of Modric, we had Dembele, who played nothing like him (unlike now when he's become a lynchpin of our style), and save for Bale, I don't think we had any genuine match winners anywhere in the side. Getting 72 points with that side (really, Bale + 10) was at least on par with what we've done; not saying it was better because 72 > 70, but it wasn't any worse, I think.

I just think hyperbole isn't useful, and this stuff about us having a *Winning* mentality superior to the other teams of the recent past is just that, I feel. We haven't proved anything yet, and I don't think resting on our laurels will improve us as a side as much as facing up to that reality will. When they beat our points total (Showing *absolute* over *relative* improvement, for example), or win a trophy, or pursue a race right to the finish regardless of disappointments accrued along the way...like it or not, these are the metrics that will actually show an improved winning mentality that puts them above our other sides. Until then, it's disrespectful to them to say that this one's better in a significant way in terms of *wanting to win*, and it'll be a case of 'trust, but verify' when they're next in, say, a large points lead over Arsenal with a few games to go.

 

[Rorschach]

The last three matches confirmed to me that we have a world class spine: Lloris - Alderwereild - Dembele - Alli - Kane but the supporting act can be quite flaky and the subs inadequate.

All I want (I'm not greedy) is just 5 new class players:

1. A new CF - to expect Kane to go through what would be three seasons without an injury would be tempting fate big time. We really need to push the boat on this signing as it will give us an option B against teams coached by the likes of that piece of ****, Pulis. That Batshuayi fellow or - dare I dream - Lacazette would be fantastic. Would love to also see Berahino (that would make it six) brought in as I think we need three strikers with CL commitments.
2. A strapping CD for specific games. Toby is brilliant but not the defender you need against the likes of Chelsea and WBA. And Verts is the pure definition of flakiness. That 5ft 5 Austrian defender we are being linked with would be interesting; but them we will be getting an Europa League winner of the same stature back - though no-one is holding his breath...
3. A defensive midfielder - I would be confident that this will be Wanyama. Would give a respite to Dier who tired out completely in the last few matches.
4. A decent winger - Schurrle (maybe in exchange for Son?)
5. Another box to box midfielder (Witsel pleaseeee) - especially when Dembele will miss the first month of playing.

Having Pritchard back and hopefully fit, will also feel like a new signing...

I guess the outgoings - Son, Mason, Chadli, Bentaleb, Carroll could mean that the net spend would not exceed 50mill...

Not sure he fits the description

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

I'm not sure I get the argument here...........................but that doesn't prove that we're intrinsically *stronger* mentally than teams of the past, just that we were on par when others declined.

The argument is that using a points total in isolation is not comparing apples with applies. Ultimately it is the relative performance of teams that shows how tough/easy a league is. By maintaining the same league points total, I don't think that means that we have not progressed at all. If all teams have found it harder to come by points because the relative strength of the EPL has increased, which is what I believe has happened, then it would stand to reason that teams would score less points. All I am saying is that this team has proved itself to be the third best team in the league whilst also being the youngest. By being mentally strong, I also mean the nature of our play. We don't get bullied as much as we have done in the past and our players show real belief (bar the last 3-4 games). This is something that has been picked up on by commentators and columnists by saying that we're no longer the team that a manager can just say "It's Tottenham". A number of opposition managers have said that we were the hardest team that they have played against (not many if at all said the same about any of our previous teams) and were it not for our youngsters letting emotion get the better of them, we could have been champions. But as you pointed out in that epic post of yours, that feeling that they felt needs to be bottled and remembered so that they don't make the same mistakes. Those other teams that you mentioned did not have the wherewithal to be the third best team in the land and engage in a title run in. That year we got CL football was a great team. But it was not the same Emirates Marketing Project that we know of today.

And both the teams I mentioned did similar things. Again, you're not proving that this team is mentally stronger than the other two under Harry and AVB, just that it's on par.......12/13 sides are being (imv) very unfairly dismissed as somehow lesser than this one.

I'm not sure how anyone can definitively prove that a team is mentally stronger or weaker than another. All I can say is that the title soft spurs is not something that columnists and commentators are levelling at us. They are all fully expecting us to be challenging for the league title. That is something that could never be said about any of the other teams, despite all the millions that they have spent on their teams. And I think you're being a tad disingenuous by suggesting that anyone is saying that this is some miraculously gritty, winning team. There are no miracles here. Just hard work. More hard work than I have seen of any spurs team in recent times. And when it does come to the finish line, they have done something that the other two teams didn't do. They competed for the title, for large portions of the season and ended up being the third best team in the land. Not only that, but they have managed to persuade a number of pundits that we are not a million miles away from being title winners.

As for being unfair to the previous teams, I don't think that I am. Which of the teams would I rather have today, and the answer is quite easy for me. This one, with this manager. One of them qualified for the CL and that was with perhaps a weaker Emirates Marketing Project than we have now.

All this is true (even if the bit about you sticking with this one over the others is just opinion), .............. Yes, they fell back on their original objective which was achieved...but then, Harry's side achieved the same objective and the same points in what was arguably a harder time to do it, when the Sky Four weren't yet impeachable, which is now not the case anymore.

I really don't think we can take the fact that we stayed consistent and achieved our objectives as proof of this team being mentally *stronger* than previous ones, is all. On par? Yes, definitely, and I won't stand for anyone telling me we're weaker now than we were in 09/10 or 12/13. But better? I highly doubt that.

Hang on. So let's be consistent. Objective for all teams was top 4, no title challenge. Which of the teams finished third? Which of the teams finished the season with the best defensive record? Which of the teams actually really, meaningfully took part in a title challenge? Yes two of the three teams achieved their objectives, but one of them did it easier than the other without having to go through a qualifier. That season with the record points total was not good enough for top 4, arguably signifying that the league was not as competitive across the board.

As for Harry's side, I think the Emirates Marketing Project then was still under Mark Hughes and had not spent the real big money on signings and got the quality in. If I remember correctly they had Stephen Ireland, as opposed to Yaya, Aguero, Silva or Kompany. Emirates Marketing Project had not made it in the top 4, so the Sky Four were impeachable.

Actually, I'd argue that AVB's team was weaker than the one we have now. ......... was at least on par with what we've done; not saying it was better because 72 > 70, but it wasn't any worse, I think.

It was weaker. They didn't finish top 4 let alone top 3. In terms of player quality, I don't think at the beginning of the season just gone we would think that the current team would be better than the one you mentioned. A lot of us were even predicting top 5 finishes given the fact that our team was so young and we were reliant on only one striker. There was no real world class player in the current team (lloris perhaps) but that team had Modric and Bale, players that had consistently played well in the EPL and were "proven".

I just think hyperbole isn't useful, ...........when they're next in, say, a large points lead over Arsenal with a few games to go.

I don't think that I am using hyperbole. I am simply saying that this current team is, in my very humble opinion, a better team as proven by the finishing position. I also believe that this team is a mentally stronger one and I base that on the fact that they went where no other Spurs team of recent time has gone, and that is to meaningfully challenge for the title. You may think that we haven't proved anything yet, but I think we have. Look at how differently the pundits are talking about us and have been throughout the season. Carragher, Souness, Neville and Shearer have all said it. Neville commented on the mental approach our players come to England with i.e. they are different. As for the measure of success being absolute points, I disagree. If the league is becoming more competitive i.e. because teams like Leicester, Southampton, West Ham are becoming more competitive, then it stands to reason that the absolute points total will reduce.

I do think that we are splitting hairs though. You are saying that we haven't proved anything yet, and I think that we have. You talk about resting on laurels, but I don't think anyone has advocated that and nor do I think by saying that this team is mentally strong is advocating that either. I fundamentally disagree that those are the metrics that will actually show an improved winning mentality. It's relative league performance. If we finished with an absolute points total of 73 points but finished sixth, would that mean that the team had a better winning mentality? I will choose to measure that "winning mentality" through performances above all else. We conceded the least amount of goals which to me says we are harder to beat. The same AVB team conceded 46 goals compared to 35. It scored 66 goals compared to the current 69. So should we be looking at those absolute measures? That AVB team lost 8 times compared to the 6 that the Poch team has.

Now I'm not getting carried away with hyperbole. But I am genuinely excited and that is because this team is different. It has a higher ceiling, a more dynamic team and is closer to a title winning side as we have ever had. All my opinion of course!!

 

[nayenezgani]

More of this please lads. Kthanks.

 

[DubaiSpur]

The argument is that using a points total in isolation is not comparing apples with applies. Ultimately it is the relative performance of teams that shows how tough/easy a league is. By maintaining the same league points total, I don't think that means that we have not progressed at all. If all teams have found it harder to come by points because the relative strength of the EPL has increased, which is what I believe has happened, then it would stand to reason that teams would score less points.....

Right, but it could equally be that the top teams just devolved while the others stayed at much the same level. Ultimately, it's all speculation as to whether it's a long-term or temporary effect on the league, and beyond the certainty that Leicester's title winning form definitely contributed to many other teams having sub-par seasons (after all, they probably all reckoned on six points home and away from their Leicester games), it's hard to say whether standing still is progress from our perspective.

Yes, we had belief. Yes, we were stronger, faster, fitter, hungrier and just plain *better* than most of our opponents in a way that previous teams may not always have been. But what came after the Chelsea game was undoubtedly something that shook the previous confidence of a lot of people and pundits that we'd finally gotten rid of 'S.p.u.r.s.y'. And then the demolition against Saudi Sportswashing Machine that led to Arsenal finishing above us again...the thing is, pundits and opposition managers were saying for much of the season that we'd changed, but at the end of it they were back to laughing at us for bottling it as usual, and Rafa was offering Poch his sympathy for having to watch his side be so relentlessly outpaced, outfought and outthought by a relegated Saudi Sportswashing Machine down to ten men. If we are to take the metric of what the world says about us as valid (which is something I vehemently argued against us doing in that post you happily ended up liking ), then there are at the very least still questions over our mentality, questions that arose *after* the Saints game that put paid to a lot of the good work earlier on.

I'm not sure how anyone can definitively prove that a team is mentally stronger or weaker than another. All I can say is that the title soft spurs is not something that columnists and commentators are levelling at us. They are all fully expecting us to be challenging for the league title. That is something that could never be said about any of the other teams, despite all the millions that they have spent on their teams. And I think you're being a tad disingenuous by suggesting that anyone is saying that this is some miraculously gritty, winning team. There are no miracles here. Just hard work....

You're absolutely right, quantifying mental strength is a nightmarish task. Beyond definitively stating that one team definitely has it (Leicester, for example) and one team doesn't, there isn't much more one can do before finding oneself treading on very uncertain ground full of suppositions and theories. But in this case, you're using the metric of what other people are saying about us - from that perspective, a lot of people who thought we were future title winners two months ago are now again reverting back to Roy Keane's 'Spurs will always let you down' adage after what happened two weeks ago. That we challenged for the title is admirable, but was it because we showed genuine title winning form, or because, again, other teams dropped off and allowed us to get to 70 points as we tend to regularly do these days? After all, Leicester finished on 81 points, which is a genuinely title-winning total (not regularly, but occasionally, as in 2010-2011) - by contrast, 70 points has never been enough for 2nd place in any Premier League season, and has only very occasionally been good enough for 3rd.

We work damn hard, that's true. We haven't always done so, that is also true. Were we exceptional winners (as is the case in teams with a 'winning mentality') this season to the extent that this team can easily justify your support for them over the others we've had in the recent past? There are a lot of intangibles involved in that, but I can say that at least when it comes to the proposition that their 'winning mentality' is superior to that of the others, there is some doubt there that should give you pause.

Hang on. So let's be consistent. Objective for all teams was top 4, no title challenge. Which of the teams finished third? Which of the teams finished the season with the best defensive record? Which of the teams actually really, meaningfully took part in a title challenge? Yes two of the three teams achieved their objectives, but one of them did it easier than the other without having to go through a qualifier. That season with the record points total was not good enough for top 4, arguably signifying that the league was not as competitive across the board.

This team finished third. This team had the best defensive record. This team took part in a title challenge. All true. Now,was that because they were exceptional, because the league was more competitive, or because the top teams just dropped off while the rest stood still?

If the vagaries of league strength are taken into the equation (as you've done with the AVB season), then that doesn't automatically bolster our performance this season, since there are at least two schools of thought on what this season really signifies from the perspective of league strength.

As for Harry's side, I think the Emirates Marketing Project then was still under Mark Hughes and had not spent the real big money on signings and got the quality in. If I remember correctly they had Stephen Ireland, as opposed to Yaya, Aguero, Silva or Kompany. Emirates Marketing Project had not made it in the top 4, so the Sky Four were impeachable.

In the end, we still needed to go to the CoMS and win to get CL (or do it against Burnley in the following game while avoiding defeat at the CoMS). It was in our hands, but knowing how so many things in our hands had slipped away over the years, I'm sure I wasn't the only one sweating bullets. And yet, we went out there, in a high pressure atmosphere, kept them quiet the whole game and deservedly won it. And that City team wasn't as barren as you think it was; the Ireland season was, iirc, in 08/09, with 09/10 being about Tevez and Bellamy more than about Ireland. The team we faced was (again, iirc), Fulop, Bridge, Kompany, Toure, some RB whose name escapes me (maybe Zabaleta), Johnson, Viera, De Jong, Ade, Tevez and Bellamy. It wasn't weak by any means, and easily a match for our own side.

Again, that team wasn't mentally *stronger* than this one, even if it did set a lot of the standards that we tend to take for granted today (getting to the 70 point mark, for example). But I don't think anyone can justifiably say that it was *weaker*.

It was weaker. They didn't finish top 4 let alone top 3. In terms of player quality, I don't think at the beginning of the season just gone we would think that the current team would be better than the one you mentioned. A lot of us were even predicting top 5 finishes given the fact that our team was so young and we were reliant on only one striker.

The AVB team was definitely weaker. As I said, it was coming into the season on the back of Ledley ageing and the stars of the previous years departing (Modric and VdV). It didn't get a top four spot, undoubtedly true. And yet, it fought to the end to get there, finishing on 72 points with the aforementioned weaker side than the one we have now. I'm not sure whether that signifies a *better* winning mentality than securing a top three spot and then collapsing horribly because the slim hopes of a title evaporated, but I don't think it could feasibly be termed *worse*, is all.

I personally predicted a top five finish for this side, iirc. And from that regard, we definitely outperformed expectations - I'm not saying we didn't.

I don't think that I am using hyperbole. I am simply saying that this current team is, in my very humble opinion, a better team as proven by the finishing position. I also believe that this team is a mentally stronger one and I base that on the fact that they went where no other Spurs team of recent time has gone, and that is to meaningfully challenge for the title. You may think that we haven't proved anything yet, but I think we have. Look at how differently the pundits are talking about us and have been throughout the season.

As I mentioned, a) the pundits have changed their tune to a considerable extent after our horrible collapse against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, and b) f*ck them and the horses they harrumph from.

(cont.)

 

[DubaiSpur]

I do think that we are splitting hairs though. You are saying that we haven't proved anything yet, and I think that we have. You talk about resting on laurels, but I don't think anyone has advocated that and nor do I think by saying that this team is mentally strong is advocating that either. I fundamentally disagree that those are the metrics that will actually show an improved winning mentality. It's relative league performance. If we finished with an absolute points total of 73 points but finished sixth, would that mean that the team had a better winning mentality? I will choose to measure that "winning mentality" through performances above all else. We conceded the least amount of goals which to me says we are harder to beat.


Now I'm not getting carried away with hyperbole. But I am genuinely excited and that is because this team is different. It has a higher ceiling, a more dynamic team and is closer to a title winning side as we have ever had. All my opinion of course!!

Oh, we're definitely splitting hairs. I just think we should hold off on calling this team things it hasn't proved to be in my eyes, and I'm not advocating we do it just to be cruel to a bunch of young, spirited lads - I'm advocating we do it because we can't rely on the media, the pundits, opposition fans or any other jackass outside the confines of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club to tell us what we are and what we are not, because, as I so angrily decried in that post last month, they're all c*nts who only look out for their own biases all the time, every time.


I think this team is young, exciting, has a huge potential, works its collective arse off and has an exciting future ahead if it stays together and matures together. And I'm ultimately proud of what we ended up doing, even if (imo) we had some late pitfalls that are undoubted drawbacks to our performances over the season. But I don't think we can, or should, feasibly call it a team with a better *winning mentality* than the others we've had - I used points to question their winning mentality because, as I've previously noted, it's about the closest thing we have to an absolute indicator of improvement or regression that isn't immediately called into question by the varying opinions associated with the 'strength' or weakness of a league at any given time - one person's 'strong league' is another person's 'weak top clubs', after all.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

Oh, we're definitely splitting hairs. I just think we should hold off on calling this team things it hasn't proved to be in my eyes, and I'm not advocating we do it just to be cruel to a bunch of young, spirited lads - I'm advocating we do it because we can't rely on the media, the pundits, opposition fans or any other jackass outside the confines of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club to tell us what we are and what we are not, because, as I so angrily decried in that post last month, they're all c*nts who only look out for their own biases all the time, every time.


I think this team is young, exciting, has a huge potential, works its collective arse off and has an exciting future ahead if it stays together and matures together. And I'm ultimately proud of what we ended up doing, even if (imo) we had some late pitfalls that are undoubted drawbacks to our performances over the season. But I don't think we can, or should, feasibly call it a team with a better *winning mentality* than the others we've had - I used points to question their winning mentality because, as I've previously noted, it's about the closest thing we have to an absolute indicator of improvement or regression that isn't immediately called into question by the varying opinions associated with the 'strength' or weakness of a league at any given time - one person's 'strong league' is another person's 'weak top clubs', after all.

I do think that we are splitting hairs, so am going to bow out and stop boring everyone else. The bit in bold is the main bit for me and knowing that you feel that way makes me feel that the "winning mentality" comments are coming from a different place. I just know which team I'd prefer to have at this point in time, and despite the qualities of Modric, King, Bale and VdV and for all the qualities that they bring, I feel that it is this team that we have now that will bring us glory. When it comes to expectations next year, I will wait to see what signings we do make but at this present moment in time (without any signings and expecting each of Chelsea, Man United, Emirates Marketing Project, Arsenal and Liverpool to spend £150m+) a top 4 finish would do me. That's probably for another thread and another time though!

Oh and you and I both know that liking a post doesn't necessarily mean that you agree with it. I like people putting reasoned points across, so in your case, I liked it but disagreed......

 

[Jurgen the German]

Not sure why everyone wants Chadli gone. Who else can score coming off the bench?

 

[Jurgen the German]

It's very simple really. This team finished third and was in contention for the title in a two horse race. The other teams didn't. Now before my words get twisted, I'm not saying that they had a losing mentality! But, we secured CL way before the penultimate game of the season. If the recent run of results happened in the middle of the season and we finished with a bunch of wins I don't think that changes the winning mentality yet it would in other people's minds.

When we were knocked out by Borussia Dortmund, we then went on a run where we beat Stoke 4-0 away from home. When we lost to Crystal Palace in the FA Cup, we then went on to beat Fiorentina 3-0. When we were in September and had a run of form in August that read LDDD we ended it with a 4-1 win over Emirates Marketing Project.

It just so happens that our poorest run of form happened at the end of the season. Move that to the beginning and everyone would be saying what a strong, resilient team we have. I know that I'd much rather stick with this team than stick with the others that you mention. Why, because this has the most potential and imho the best attitude. There is a proper team dynamic. They're better than the sum of their parts. Now in my saying that this team has the best winning mentality of any spurs team in recent times, I mean the relentlessness of it all. These young kids believed that they could win the title when a lot of others had knocked them. Say what you will about the lions photo, but that was a measure of his belief. All the other teams that you mentioned were never meaningfully involved in a title fight. You could say that it is because other bigger teams faded away, but the fact is that we didn't when others had.

As for AVB's team getting more points. Sure they did, but relative to the rest of the league you and I both know where they finished. Relatively speaking, we were the third best team in the league and we had a drop off as soon as the title looked pretty much gone. Put another way, you could argue that that season showed that it was easier to get points because 4 other teams got even more points than us despite it being a record absolute points season.

We finished 3rd in a two horse race. I know that's the line that has been trotted out by some in the media but it's quite apt.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

We finished 3rd in a two horse race. I know that's the line that has been trotted out by some in the media but it's quite apt.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Haha wasn't even trying for that.

 

[billyiddo]

Not sure why everyone wants Chadli gone. Who else can score coming off the bench?

his all round game doesn't seem to fit in with how we play - is the guts of it, id imagine. i assume the idea is to replace him with a player who is as capable of scoring goals whilst being more suited to the style of the team - plus now that he's settled in the league and somewhat proven there should be a host of clubs outside of the top 6 who would be interested meaning we could get a fair bit of money to reinvest

 

[DubaiSpur]

Oh and you and I both know that liking a post doesn't necessarily mean that you agree with it. I like people putting reasoned points across, so in your case, I liked it but disagreed......

Duly noted.

 

[90291Spur]

Not sure why everyone wants Chadli gone. Who else can score coming off the bench?

The chap we buy to replace him who will be better. Theoretically/

 

[Yiddo]

Not sure why everyone wants Chadli gone. Who else can score coming off the bench?

You got statistics for goals scored coming off of the bench?

 

[Jurgen the German]

You got statistics for goals scored coming off of the bench?

Not really, but in general, he is by far the most likely to get a goal of the players who aren't first team regulars.

 

[Jurgen the German]

his all round game doesn't seem to fit in with how we play - is the guts of it, id imagine. i assume the idea is to replace him with a player who is as capable of scoring goals whilst being more suited to the style of the team - plus now that he's settled in the league and somewhat proven there should be a host of clubs outside of the top 6 who would be interested meaning we could get a fair bit of money to reinvest

I agree his overally play is not the best, but I'd sooner get rid of Mason, Carroll and Bentaleb before shipping Chadli out. If you listen to GB, we can get 20 mil for Bentaleb.

 

[braineclipse]

I agree his overally play is not the best, but I'd sooner get rid of Mason, Carroll and Bentaleb before shipping Chadli out. If you listen to GB, we can get 20 mil for Bentaleb.

Mason, Carroll and Bentaleb just about never compete with Chadli for a place in the team or coming off the bench.

The suggestion of Chadli perhaps leaving is directly connected to where he currently rates in the pecking order to get game time. He's behind Eriksen, Alli and Lamela no doubt. He's been behind Son for at least parts of this season. 5th choice for those 3 attacking midfield roles makes him a potential player to leave.

If we sign another attacking midfielder this summer I expect we would let one go. In addition to those named above we have Clinton and Onomah and possibly also Pritchard looking for game time. Chadli or Son seems like the logical choice of AM to sell if we bring in a new one to me. That has little to nothing to do with Mason, Carroll and Bentaleb.

 

[90sSpursBook]

We need to learn how to regain momentum after conceding equalisers. This happened on 9 occasions this season and only twice did we manage to go on and get a winner (Watford and Man C since you ask).

We need to get our major business done before the season starts - had Son been in at start of season we may well have converted one of the draws into wins (he was very explosive when he first got imto the team and provided pace and dynamism in the final third).

Better discipline - Alli missed 4 games, Dembele will miss 6; Lamela and Dier also missed games through accumulation of cautions - I enjoyed Dier thumping Hazard and Fabregas but there's a balance between competitiveness and stupidity.

Have better offensive options on the bench/squad - need upgrades on Mason, Carroll, Chadli (and probably Clinton).

Make sure if we're in a two horse title race we don't ALWAYS have to play second (not much we can do about this!)

Hope that we're not competing with the collective will of the nation in a title race (not much we can do about this!)

 

[billyiddo]

I agree his overally play is not the best, but I'd sooner get rid of Mason, Carroll and Bentaleb before shipping Chadli out. If you listen to GB, we can get 20 mil for Bentaleb.

I'm not sure we have to get rid of players XY and Z before we think about getting rid others - we'll have a list of players that we're open to selling or that we are actively looking to sell and I think Chadli is a candidate, along with a one or two of those you mention