Improvements necessary for next season

[Gazzasrightboot]

wow, we come 3rd and people have a list as long as my fudgeing arm ....

simple

- continue to improve individually and as a team (even half the improvement between Poch season 1 & 2 would be significant)
- improve the bench/plan B options
- Better focus on cups

Couldn't agree with you more.

Anyone would think that we finished midtable the way some of you are moaning. We finished third. Compare that with expectations at the beginning of the season, and I'm not sure that many of you had called that. We were the only team involved in any title race in March/April. We have the YOUNGEST team in the EPL who will learn. We have a bright young(ish) manager who does the right things more often than not.

The self-entitlement exhibited by a lot of people on here is worrying for me. I get it. We finished below Arsenal yet again and in one of the worst possible ways. But look at what and where we have come from and look at where they have come from. Also, missing out this time has not costed us CL football, so only bragging rights are affected. When was the last time we had bragging rights? Honestly tell me who is on the improvement curve. This is about more than final league placing. This is about potential of the team and we have far more potential than the other lot.

As for the OP:

1. I think you're wrong - It's only in the 71-80 minutes that we have conceded more than we have scored -->http://www.soccerstats.com/timing.asp?league=england
2. We created the highest number of chances and scored the second most number of goals. Something to be improved upon, yes. Something to worry about, I disagree.
3. Already been pointed out that we score the most from set pieces. However,
4. We've scored the second most goals from corners (10). Palace scored one more and Emirates Marketing Project scored the same as us. Arsenal and Leicester not even in the top 5. http://statspack.squawka.com/
5. I disagree. I can think of a number of examples where his substitutions have worked. Swansea at home for one.
6. It is the player's attitudes that have been the most refreshing this season! They work their bloody socks off! The recent end of season form was as much down to them being disappointed as anything else, and whilst they should have just got on with it, they are youngsters. They will learn. This is the first time that we have a team that works for eachother!
7. Agreed;
8. Agreed. We need to improve the strength of the squad but without disrupting the harmony. I can see Chadli going and at least one of Mason or Carrol.
9. Our results against key rivals is fine and of course could be improved, but so can our results against some of the supposedly lower teams as they have hurt us just as much. Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Southampton, West Ham, WBA.
10. This team has the best winning mentality of any spurs team in recent times.

 

[Mr_B]

I think a lot will come down to experience and just the fact that Poch will have another year to grown into his role and mould his team, everything else will follow from that.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Couldn't agree with you more.

10. This team has the best winning mentality of any spurs team in recent times.

The rest of the post's fine, but this one is what interests me.

What's the substance behind this statement that this Spurs team has the best winning mentality of recent times?

Better than Harry's Spurs, who faced crushing disappointment of their own when they (stunningly) lost to rock-bottom Portsmouth in the FA Cup semifinal, but bounced back to win against Arsenal in the league for the first time in nearly a decade, and then went on to deservedly beat Chelsea, the run-away champions...before going to the home of their direct rivals for CL qualification and again deservedly winning with a clean-sheet to boot, getting us into the CL for the very first time (well, since it was rebranded, anyway)?

Better than AVB's Spurs, who went two months unbeaten from the middle of March right up until the end of the season, relentlessly grinding out narrow wins and draws while chasing Arsenal for a CL spot which we ultimately couldn't get into, and finishing with more points than this current team managed to get despite that?

What gives us the right to say those teams were worse than this one in terms of a 'winning mentality', given that this present side hasn't secured more points than them or finished as strongly as either of them did (yes, that's including the 4-2 loss to Burnley on the last day in 2009-2010)?

Personally, I think it's doing an injustice to those sides to say that this team is so obviously superior to them in terms of a 'winning mentality', when such a thing hasn't yet (to my mind, at least) been proven given our end-of-season collapse. Is this team technically brilliant and extremely hard-working? Yes, absolutely. Is it possessed of a 'winning' mentality worthy of praise? I'm not particularly convinced, although I'd welcome alternate viewpoints that detail why that's the case.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

The rest of the post's fine, but this one is what interests me.

What's the substance behind this statement that this Spurs team has the best winning mentality of recent times?

Better than Harry's Spurs, who faced crushing disappointment of their own when they (stunningly) lost to rock-bottom Portsmouth in the FA Cup semifinal, but bounced back to win against Arsenal in the league for the first time in nearly a decade, and then went on to deservedly beat Chelsea, the run-away champions...before going to the home of their direct rivals for CL qualification and again deservedly winning with a clean-sheet to boot, getting us into the CL for the very first time (well, since it was rebranded, anyway)?

Better than AVB's Spurs, who went two months unbeaten from the middle of March right up until the end of the season, relentlessly grinding out narrow wins and draws while chasing Arsenal for a CL spot which we ultimately couldn't get into, and finishing with more points than this current team managed to get despite that?

What gives us the right to say those teams were worse than this one in terms of a 'winning mentality', given that this present side hasn't secured more points than them or finished as strongly as either of them did (yes, that's including the 4-2 loss to Burnley on the last day in 2009-2010)?

Personally, I think it's doing an injustice to those sides to say that this team is so obviously superior to them in terms of a 'winning mentality', when such a thing hasn't yet (to my mind, at least) been proven given our end-of-season collapse. Is this team technically brilliant and extremely hard-working? Yes, absolutely. Is it possessed of a 'winning' mentality worthy of praise? I'm not particularly convinced, although I'd welcome alternate viewpoints that detail why that's the case.

It's very simple really. This team finished third and was in contention for the title in a two horse race. The other teams didn't. Now before my words get twisted, I'm not saying that they had a losing mentality! But, we secured CL way before the penultimate game of the season. If the recent run of results happened in the middle of the season and we finished with a bunch of wins I don't think that changes the winning mentality yet it would in other people's minds.

When we were knocked out by Borussia Dortmund, we then went on a run where we beat Stoke 4-0 away from home. When we lost to Crystal Palace in the FA Cup, we then went on to beat Fiorentina 3-0. When we were in September and had a run of form in August that read LDDD we ended it with a 4-1 win over Emirates Marketing Project.

It just so happens that our poorest run of form happened at the end of the season. Move that to the beginning and everyone would be saying what a strong, resilient team we have. I know that I'd much rather stick with this team than stick with the others that you mention. Why, because this has the most potential and imho the best attitude. There is a proper team dynamic. They're better than the sum of their parts. Now in my saying that this team has the best winning mentality of any spurs team in recent times, I mean the relentlessness of it all. These young kids believed that they could win the title when a lot of others had knocked them. Say what you will about the lions photo, but that was a measure of his belief. All the other teams that you mentioned were never meaningfully involved in a title fight. You could say that it is because other bigger teams faded away, but the fact is that we didn't when others had.

As for AVB's team getting more points. Sure they did, but relative to the rest of the league you and I both know where they finished. Relatively speaking, we were the third best team in the league and we had a drop off as soon as the title looked pretty much gone. Put another way, you could argue that that season showed that it was easier to get points because 4 other teams got even more points than us despite it being a record absolute points season.

 

[Spur of the moment]

^^ Yee-haa! Gazzasrightboot, two brilliant posts. You are absolutely spot on in everything you say. Thanks for articulating pretty much exactly my thoughts and saving me all the time and hassle of coming up with something similar myself.

 

[glorygloryeze]

I fall between @Gazzasrightboot and @DubaiSpur on the above.
To finish 3rd and so both qualify DIRECTLY for the CL group stages for the first time and achieve our highest PL finish shows the effort and quality shift put in by our team as well as Poch: the youngest and one of the youngest in the league respectively.
It is especially great given what would have been expected in the season and also given our very slow start.

However, to gain the 'mentally strong' tag without any discussion/dispute they would have had to have done the following:
- not let a lead slip vs Arsenal at WHL when we had a man advantage; in fact we were hanging on for the point in the end which was a bit worrying..
- gained at least a point in the last two games to secure the 2nd place that i think overall their play and verve deserved; Dembele and Alli both being missing is NO excuse for that imo
- NOT lose to Saudi Sportswashing Machine; let alone 5-1!
- Close out the Chelski game: many have let in late equalisers at SB this season. Wasn't a disgace to let a two-goal lead slip, but if we had we'd have quashed the hoodoo and showed that this side is different to the others being compared (i.e. Redknapp in 2010 and even AVB in 2013)

A very good season no doubt; I think an extra forward to provide another direct (and pacy) goal threat for the opposition to worry about would be the number one priority for me. Half of the many draws we got this season would have been wins imo with that extra variation on goal threat to get that extra goal. Next would then be another DM-type to rotate/cover for Dier and then another pacy CB who is more dominant in the air.

 

[Raziel]

I fall between @Gazzasrightboot and @DubaiSpur on the above.
To finish 3rd and so both qualify DIRECTLY for the CL group stages for the first time and achieve our highest PL finish shows the effort and quality shift put in by our team as well as Poch: the youngest and one of the youngest in the league respectively.
It is especially great given what would have been expected in the season and also given our very slow start.

However, to gain the 'mentally strong' tag without any discussion/dispute they would have had to have done the following:
- not let a lead slip vs Arsenal at WHL when we had a man advantage; in fact we were hanging on for the point in the end which was a bit worrying..
- gained at least a point in the last two games to secure the 2nd place that i think overall their play and verve deserved; Dembele and Alli both being missing is NO excuse for that imo
- NOT lose to Saudi Sportswashing Machine; let alone 5-1!
- Close out the Chelski game: many have let in late equalisers at SB this season. Wasn't a disgace to let a two-goal lead slip, but if we had we'd have quashed the hoodoo and showed that this side is different to the others being compared (i.e. Redknapp in 2010 and even AVB in 2013)

A very good season no doubt; I think an extra forward to provide another direct (and pacy) goal threat for the opposition to worry about would be the number one priority for me. Half of the many draws we got this season would have been wins imo with that extra variation on goal threat to get that extra goal. Next would then be another DM-type to rotate/cover for Dier and then another pacy CB who is more dominant in the air.

Not going at you mate, but ALL teams fudge up at some stage of season, in some game.

Barca let go a 12-15 point gap on Madrid this season in the space of a couple of months (are we saying they are mentaly weak? don't have winners?) .. it happens, that's why the only real indicator of if a season is a success is final result.

Our final result = 3rd place & group stage CL qualification = success

 

[glorygloryeze]

Not going at you mate, but ALL teams fudge up at some stage of season, in some game.

Barca let go a 12-15 point gap on Madrid this season in the space of a couple of months (are we saying they are mentaly weak? don't have winners?) .. it happens, that's why the only real indicator of if a season is a success is final result.

Our final result = 3rd place & group stage CL qualification = success

I'm saying the season IS a success but that the "mentally strong" label can be disputed a bit for the reasons i gave; similarly if Barca HAD finished 2nd then they would (rightly) have been labelled bottlers;
Similarly, if we'd finished 2nd there would be no discussion about us and our 'mental strength'

 

[Rorschach]

Well one improvement is the need to do a bit of training when playing versus 10 men. We're not very good at that.

 

[wiziwig]

Poch's substitutions.

It could be argued that his options for tactical changes were limited. But there were also times where I felt quicker substitutions could've been made due to individual poor form and when the game were already won.

Both full-backs should've been hauled off at half-time at Stamford Bridge and in both, the 4-0 Stoke away and 3-0 Man Utd home games, no substition were made until 85 minutes despite all the goals being scored by around the 70th minute. Kane missed just the one minute from both the games!

 

[wiziwig]

With regard to Corner and Free Kicks


We scored from set pieces more times than any other team in the League

And its pretty comparable with the other big leagues.

Teams just dont score as often from set pieces as you think. You just see other teams scoring selectively from them on motd and see us not scoring from them most of the time and think we have a problem.

Thanks for that., interesting stats.

I do think that when we've done well from corners and dead ball situations it's because we have some good headers of the ball. Saying this, I do feel we could be set up better as all to often, if the cross is overhit to its intended target, it invariably bypasses all of our players. I'd like to see us extensively cover our opponent's penalty area rather than just the intended targeted area.

 

[Raziel]

I'm saying the season IS a success but that the "mentally strong" label can be disputed a bit for the reasons i gave; similarly if Barca HAD finished 2nd then they would (rightly) have been labelled bottlers;
Similarly, if we'd finished 2nd there would be no discussion about us and our 'mental strength'

Not disagreeing, what i'm saying its bad patches/results are part of every season.

Was an interesting commentary by Cristian Vieri (who I think is really honest in views) who talked about just that (ups/downs/form) and his basic answer was, you will have a bad run, you just want that bad run to be in beginning or middle of season as it allows you time to recover, if it happens at end of season it obviously has more impact.

Re Barca, got lucky (nothing to do with mental strength), if they had one more decent level team in last 3 games, they would have lost title ... on form

 

[glorygloryeze]

Not disagreeing, what i'm saying its bad patches/results are part of every season.

Was an interesting commentary by Cristian Vieri (who I think is really honest in views) who talked about just that (ups/downs/form) and his basic answer was, you will have a bad run, you just want that bad run to be in beginning or middle of season as it allows you time to recover, if it happens at end of season it obviously has more impact.

Re Barca, got lucky (nothing to do with mental strength), if they had one more decent level team in last 3 games, they would have lost title ... on form

Christian Vieri's view is certainly interesting: it fits into the worry i have with Poch's methods and them continually leading to late downturns due to tiredness (a la Bielsa). I guess time will tell and with CL secured it's certainly a more exciting time to tell than normal that's for sure

 

[camspur]

Agreed that those are interesting stats. However, I would like to be reminded of the supposed 17 goals we scored from set pieces this season in the league and indeed who scored them.

Doesn't matter who scored them only that they were scored.

 

[camspur]

5.Substitutions. I think Poch's substitutions have been poor this year. His reading of the game in play doesnt seem terribly cute to me and he often makes the wrong subs at the wrong time. I know this is a subjective view and everyone can have different opinions on this, but generally Poch leaves his first sub until after 60 minutes no matter how the game is going and often gives other subs far too little time to have any meaningful impact. Admittedly options from the bench have been a limiting factor (and one that might have been addressed in January) but I also think he needs to try and improve his reading of a game while it is going on.

COYS.

The only improvement needed here is the quality of player he can bring on.

 

[parklane1]

The only improvement needed here is the quality of player he can bring on.

I agree, our bench leaves a lot to be desired for a team who has dreams of being one of the best.

 

[AdamB]

I agree, our bench leaves a lot to be desired for a team who has dreams of being one of the best.

Completely. Depth is what we need to improve this summer - enables us to make subs to change games and rotate players

 

[mudshark]

I fall between @Gazzasrightboot and @DubaiSpur on the above.
To finish 3rd and so both qualify DIRECTLY for the CL group stages for the first time and achieve our highest PL finish shows the effort and quality shift put in by our team as well as Poch: the youngest and one of the youngest in the league respectively.
It is especially great given what would have been expected in the season and also given our very slow start.

However, to gain the 'mentally strong' tag without any discussion/dispute they would have had to have done the following:
- not let a lead slip vs Arsenal at WHL when we had a man advantage; in fact we were hanging on for the point in the end which was a bit worrying..
- gained at least a point in the last two games to secure the 2nd place that i think overall their play and verve deserved; Dembele and Alli both being missing is NO excuse for that imo
- NOT lose to Saudi Sportswashing Machine; let alone 5-1!
- Close out the Chelski game: many have let in late equalisers at SB this season. Wasn't a disgace to let a two-goal lead slip, but if we had we'd have quashed the hoodoo and showed that this side is different to the others being compared (i.e. Redknapp in 2010 and even AVB in 2013)

A very good season no doubt; I think an extra forward to provide another direct (and pacy) goal threat for the opposition to worry about would be the number one priority for me. Half of the many draws we got this season would have been wins imo with that extra variation on goal threat to get that extra goal. Next would then be another DM-type to rotate/cover for Dier and then another pacy CB who is more dominant in the air.

I lean towards the same viewpoint, actually. They had to face some tough challenges over the last few weeks of the season: the West Ham game in the cauldron of the Boleyn; the home NLD; the Chelsea game and trying to stay in touch with Leicester; trying to hold on the 2nd place once the title had gone... the fact they failed in ALL of the above suggests to me they've got a little way to go yet. They're young, though. Real mental toughness comes with age and experience. What they've got is youthful hubris, which can look to people like the same thing, but isn't, and which is rather easier to puncture, as we've seen.

 

[braineclipse]

Natural development of young talented players under a coach that's good at player development should be our main focus for getting better next season.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

The last three matches confirmed to me that we have a world class spine: Lloris - Alderwereild - Dembele - Alli - Kane but the supporting act can be quite flaky and the subs inadequate.

All I want (I'm not greedy) is just 5 new class players:

1. A new CF - to expect Kane to go through what would be three seasons without an injury would be tempting fate big time. We really need to push the boat on this signing as it will give us an option B against teams coached by the likes of that piece of ****, Pulis. That Batshuayi fellow or - dare I dream - Lacazette would be fantastic. Would love to also see Berahino (that would make it six) brought in as I think we need three strikers with CL commitments.
2. A strapping CD for specific games. Toby is brilliant but not the defender you need against the likes of Chelsea and WBA. And Verts is the pure definition of flakiness. That 5ft 5 Austrian defender we are being linked with would be interesting; but them we will be getting an Europa League winner of the same stature back - though no-one is holding his breath...
3. A defensive midfielder - I would be confident that this will be Wanyama. Would give a respite to Dier who tired out completely in the last few matches.
4. A decent winger - Schurrle (maybe in exchange for Son?)
5. Another box to box midfielder (Witsel pleaseeee) - especially when Dembele will miss the first month of playing.

Having Pritchard back and hopefully fit, will also feel like a new signing...

I guess the outgoings - Son, Mason, Chadli, Bentaleb, Carroll could mean that the net spend would not exceed 50mill...