I want Poch back

[Lilbaz]

Yeh all those ignoring the fact we finished 4th and trying to act like there is some kind of weird imaginary cup played over two seasons.

And let's be real about Poch, he had money in the bank, more than we paid him back.

The players went stale but in fairness were stale, proven under two more managers, Toby and Jan's legs had gone, Winks injuries caught up with him, Dembele had gone, Wanyama had gone.

He was spot on with the nice house sh1t IKEA furniture

So why was he sacked then? If it's all about where we finish in the league he should have had nothing to worry about.

 

[glasgowspur]

Yeh all those ignoring the fact we finished 4th and trying to act like there is some kind of weird imaginary cup played over two seasons.

And let's be real about Poch, he had money in the bank, more than we paid him back.

The players went stale but in fairness were stale, proven under two more managers, Toby and Jan's legs had gone, Winks injuries caught up with him, Dembele had gone, Wanyama had gone.

He was spot on with the nice house sh1t IKEA furniture

Credit in the bank is a phrase used on here for players, doesn't seem to work for coaches.

 

[billyiddo]

So why was he sacked then? If it's all about where we finish in the league he should have had nothing to worry about.

Because Levy was wrong, he was wrong in thinking that the squad was better than it was and wrong in listening to Mourinho whispering in his ear that he was the missing piece of the puzzle. He should have been on his hands and knees doing whatever it took to reignite the fire in Pochettinos belly and promising to back him in the painful rebuild he accurately called was needed at the time.

 

[Grays_1890]

Because Levy was wrong, he was wrong in thinking that the squad was better than it was and wrong in listening to Mourinho whispering in his ear that he was the missing piece of the puzzle. He should have been on his hands and knees doing whatever it took to reignite the fire in Pochettinos belly and promising to back him in the painful rebuild he accurately called was needed at the time.

Exactly this, he made Mourinho the highest paid manager in the world at Spurs and sacked him before a cup final and people want to be absolute in their thought process about Poch haha.

For me, Levy was in his new play house and panicked and also knew Poch had laid out his cards in that he wanted new players and ready made players.

But I also know as a fact, as I was at the club, that Levy also wanted Poch the summer we appointed Nuno, fudged off conte because of it, thought PSG would let go for free, was quoted 20m for Poch and backed out and was left with.....Nuno.

So we can't pretend Levy doesn't make mistakes, another guy I rate but isn't bulletproof to criticism as some make out

 

[Finney Is Back]

So why was he sacked then? If it's all about where we finish in the league he should have had nothing to worry about.

Because Levy had had a hard-on for Mourinho for years. It was just a shame that he couldn't put something intruiguing in front of Mourinho for him to want to join years before his star had seriously waned.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Exactly this, he made Mourinho the highest paid manager in the world at Spurs and sacked him before a cup final and people want to be absolute in their thought process about Poch haha.

For me, Levy was in his new play house and panicked and also knew Poch had laid out his cards in that he wanted new players and ready made players.

But I also know as a fact, as I was at the club, that Levy also wanted Poch the summer we appointed Nuno, fudged off conte because of it, thought PSG would let go for free, was quoted 20m for Poch and backed out and was left with.....Nuno.

So we can't pretend Levy doesn't make mistakes, another guy I rate but isn't bulletproof to criticism as some make out

Interesting.... I knew that we wanted Pochettino as first choice but didn't realise it didn't happen due to PSG compensation. I did know that Nuno was a long, long way down the list of managers we wanted though. In fact 'wanted' is a stretch, he was about the only person we could actually get by then.

 

[Grays_1890]

Interesting.... I knew that we wanted Pochettino as first choice but didn't realise it didn't happen due to PSG compensation. I did know that Nuno was a long, long way down the list of managers we wanted though. In fact 'wanted' is a stretch, he was about the only person we could actually get by then.

I was at training groundnin summer dealing with Covid protocols for PL and he was there and jokes being made about Poch and Levy long drawn out romantic lunches.

Conte was 1st on list before that and we cooled on him and tinkled him about. The other Portugease bloke no one heard of was then snapped up abroad and then they cooled on Poch because of money and then were left with No no no nuno

 

[braineclipse]

I think given that at the time Poch was speaking about tough decisions needing to be made by the club and that he was happy to move on from Walker & Alderweireld when it became apparent they were either not here for the cause or no longer up to it (and by all accounts ready to move on from Eriksen) that it's arguable that he wouldn't have a problem ushering out those that need to be now - that and the fact he called the painful rebuild as well shows he has a good eye for the medium to long term

I agree with most of that. Question is if continuing with the rebuild by selling those players is the best way forward. I may very well be wrong, but I think bringing Pochettino back wile Kane is here is a bad idea. I also think we can get rather good over the next 6 months with Kane and Conte and build even further on that next season. I don't think the timing is right.

He called the rebuild. But the track record of signings under him with regards to higher profile/cost players was rather poor. I think he's very much proven at building by signing younger posters and building over time. Not nearly as proven at building quickly with money or pushing a team on through signing and integrating players that work quickly.

A quality DoF like Paratici may change that. But for me at least the word "may" its important in that sentence. I'm not sure that's actually a known thing.

Conte on the other hand is very much proven at exactly what we (imo) need right now. And we've already spent time and significant money for players that fit into his way of doing just that.

We can disagree on whether Pochettino deserved more time. I think Conte definitely deserves more time.

 

[glasgowspur]

Because Levy was wrong, he was wrong in thinking that the squad was better than it was and wrong in listening to Mourinho whispering in his ear that he was the missing piece of the puzzle. He should have been on his hands and knees doing whatever it took to reignite the fire in Pochettinos belly and promising to back him in the painful rebuild he accurately called was needed at the time.

I would add to that an agreement on a realistic progression timetable.
Our undoing under poch first time around was that we achieved way quicker than we thought possible.
Its very unlikely that we would luck out again with players like kane, Eriksen, son, jan, Dembele, walker and rose all gelling and more or less all peaking at the same time.
At least not on our budget.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Asides from the opening post, which should be dismissed for obvious reasons, i don't think anyone has said they want him sacked?

Yeah true which I've acknowledged. There is a level of dissatisfaction building though that I sensed with all our previous managers not long before they got the bullet. I really hope that doesn't happen here. If the football and results are muck second half of the season, I'd maybe start to have second thoughts but even then, I believe 100% in this guy.

 

[thfcsteff]

That was when we were losing 7-2 v Bayern and 3-0 against Brighton. I think supporters unfortunately support if there is evidence that positive times are there, or coming, but when there are no positive signs even if just for a temporary period, then people will find reasons to believe the sky is falling and to demand change.

Did you go to the Bayern game? First half we were excellent. Some Supporters are fickle. That's the issue.

 

[thfcsteff]

I'm not backing the opinion we should make any change now - i mean if Conte was to walk i wouldn't hesitate to bring Poch in personally but if it's down to me- we see what the 2nd half of the season brings, this could easily be a season where the end justifies the means.

The big question will be if we have a dodgy second half of the season and Conte remains uncommitted - do we risk going in to a new season with a manager who might walk away? At that point unless he's happy with the backing he is getting and is indicating that he's committed to the project of building the team over several windows it may be best to not take uo the extension

Exactly!
Over to Daniel and Paratici.

 

[thfcsteff]

Let's be honest Steff the last 18 months of him in charge lucky CL run aside was pretty much abysmal in terms of results & performances

I disagree. Does your 18 months include off-season, or actual football? We were playing some great stuff right up to Xmas/New Year 2018.
Then luck crept in. Having said that some of those lucky games still saw some great football.

 

[braineclipse]

Did you go to the Bayern game? First half we were excellent. Some Supporters are fickle. That's the issue.

Excellent, playing a style that was just about guaranteed to see us run out of steam and struggle later in the game.

The players could no longer press they way they once did. Pochettino kept playing a high pressing style as if they could. There were good moments when they overextended themselves like against Bayern and many many poor attempts at high press that was too easily bypassed and way too high risk for the reward.

That was almost the entire last year of the Pochettino era. He found no solutions, he found no options. He was allowed to spend a lot of money, for very little impact at a time when he was aware that we were overdue for a rebuild. We signed two ball playing creative midfielders, no defenders ready to play when we struggled defensively.

And now, with several of the same players here that can't press high. In need of clever, good signings that will work fairly quickly. Why would we want Pochettino for that job?

Give it until post Kane at the very least imo. To be fair, the time for that may end up being the summer if Conte fails. But let's first see what Conte can do.

 

[DaveT316]

It’s funny this thread has come up. I couldn’t sleep last night - not because of the game, I’ve got a lot better in recent years in switching off and compartmentalising a difficult result or performance - and my mind went to a very unhappy time in my life, an extremely painful and personal break up about five and a half years ago. I used to lay awake at night, unable to sleep, but I would train myself to think about the weekend prior’s game where we inevitably had torn someone apart at home during our last season at the Lane. Those memories gave me huge comfort at my lowest and helped me manage to rest more easily.

So, for those, I am thankful. But I am doubtful that kind of lightning could strike twice. But. But. Could it…?

 

[thfcsteff]

Excellent, playing a style that was just about guaranteed to see us run out of steam and struggle later in the game.

The players could no longer press they way they once did. Pochettino kept playing a high pressing style as if they could. There were good moments when they overextended themselves like against Bayern and many many poor attempts at high press that was too easily bypassed and way too high risk for the reward.

That was almost the entire last year of the Pochettino era. He found no solutions, he found no options. He was allowed to spend a lot of money, for very little impact at a time when he was aware that we were overdue for a rebuild. We signed two ball playing creative midfielders, no defenders ready to play when we struggled defensively.

And now, with several of the same players here that can't press high. In need of clever, good signings that will work fairly quickly. Why would we want Pochettino for that job?

Give it until post Kane at the very least imo. To be fair, the time for that may end up being the summer if Conte fails. But let's first see what Conte can do.

I think that game was all about moments. Ndombele was brilliant first-half. Had we gone in 1-1 I think we'd have been fine. The nature of the concession, with Ndombele losing possession in that moment in that place, was a disaster I think really affected him. If memory serves me, this was also a game where Serge gave Gnabry assists on the field with some of the most unfathomable brainfarts positionally? But I take your general point, and by then, it was over. Levy had been seduced. As had many fans. Tragic.

 

[thfcsteff]

Give it until post Kane at the very least imo. To be fair, the time for that may end up being the summer if Conte fails. But let's first see what Conte can do.

Just to be clear (hopefully I was earlier)...if we are prepared to give Conte what he wants, he is the man. I absolutely do not want him to leave otherwise. I personally would be worried if Poch came back as I think Levy would stiff him again.

 

[billyiddo]

Excellent, playing a style that was just about guaranteed to see us run out of steam and struggle later in the game.

The players could no longer press they way they once did. Pochettino kept playing a high pressing style as if they could. There were good moments when they overextended themselves like against Bayern and many many poor attempts at high press that was too easily bypassed and way too high risk for the reward.

That was almost the entire last year of the Pochettino era. He found no solutions, he found no options. He was allowed to spend a lot of money, for very little impact at a time when he was aware that we were overdue for a rebuild. We signed two ball playing creative midfielders, no defenders ready to play when we struggled defensively.

And now, with several of the same players here that can't press high. In need of clever, good signings that will work fairly quickly. Why would we want Pochettino for that job?

Give it until post Kane at the very least imo. To be fair, the time for that may end up being the summer if Conte fails. But let's first see what Conte can do.

You can't really talk about the transfers of that last summer in that context - Lo Celso arrived at the end of the window and had missed preseason at Betis/PSG through injury (and the beginning part of the season to?) and Sessegnon was injured upon arrival - for all intents & purposes we were working with the same set of players as the season before with the addition of Ndombele (who also picked up an injury and missed games too iirc) a quarter of a season in and he barely had a chance to bring those players in to the fold. I also need to reiterate what he said that summer about not having control over transfers.

 

[DaveT316]

Very true, and at least one the above managers were very wrong.
I have also said for a long time that this starts higher up than the squad, in my honest opinion there is an air around the club of fear of success.
A mindset that we aren't ready yet, that we are to small to challenge.
The stadium was the key, now we have three doped clubs that can dwarf our revenue, along with utd and Liverpool.
There's always an excuse.
Money matters, but sometimes when you have an opportunity you need to be prepared to grab it.
I think that bleeds down.

I completely agree with this. Leadership sets the tone for the whole club and weak leadership will always trickle down. Levy has undoubtedly done some amazing, genuinely incredible things for the club, but I think the players, consciously or otherwise, know that they’re not at a club where winning is in its blood.

 

[thfcsteff]

So why was he sacked then? If it's all about where we finish in the league he should have had nothing to worry about.

You know why he was sacked. If you genuinely don't, I will give you my view.