Hugo Lloris

[braineclipse]

i can agree with this in general , most of what you're saying here is fair. But i would point out that Reina is poor now, and has not always been so.....ergo his form is not good as are most people in the liverpool squad. a persons form shouldnt be the end decisive factor as to how good they are

I'm still of the opinion that its because of what we lacked before that highlights what we have now ....and because of this we are over compensating on the praise. its like the world class tags bale had after only 6 months into his reign...it was premature....he had world class talent but he wasnt world class IMO. i honestly think he is now ...bonafide.

one has to wonder how people would react if the keeper we bought was someone else that offered the same skill set. would they be called world class too? begovic? krul? reina? czech? jaaskeilnen? vorm?

trust me when i say that the worshippers will see the above comments as me saying that lloris is crap :lol:

I agree with you. The world class and best in the league comments are premature. Especially as one of the key qualities you want from a top class goalkeeper is consistency and by definition you can't judge that over a very small sample. Another point is how the goalkeeper responds to a poor patch of form (or luck), this as well can only be seen over time. We've seen several goalies just for us look very good and then not manage to lift themselves when they hit a poor patch. Since you mention Reina I think he belongs in this category at the moment at least.

It's only natural for fans to overrate their own players though... We've done it with loads of players in the past and we'll keep doing it in the future, just like fans of every other side in the world.

 

[africanspurs]

I agree with you. The world class and best in the league comments are premature. Especially as one of the key qualities you want from a top class goalkeeper is consistency and by definition you can't judge that over a very small sample. Another point is how the goalkeeper responds to a poor patch of form (or luck), this as well can only be seen over time. We've seen several goalies just for us look very good and then not manage to lift themselves when they hit a poor patch. Since you mention Reina I think he belongs in this category at the moment at least.

It's only natural for fans to overrate their own players though... We've done it with loads of players in the past and we'll keep doing it in the future, just like fans of every other side in the world.

nice post, pretty much agree with this.

 

[tynesidespur]

I agree with you. The world class and best in the league comments are premature. Especially as one of the key qualities you want from a top class goalkeeper is consistency and by definition you can't judge that over a very small sample. Another point is how the goalkeeper responds to a poor patch of form (or luck), this as well can only be seen over time. We've seen several goalies just for us look very good and then not manage to lift themselves when they hit a poor patch. Since you mention Reina I think he belongs in this category at the moment at least.

It's only natural for fans to overrate their own players though... We've done it with loads of players in the past and we'll keep doing it in the future, just like fans of every other side in the world.

Good point - Sullivan is the example that really springs to mind for me. Absolutely amazing first season but just couldn't carry it through on the 2nd season and never truly recovered. Always wondered if that was a concentration issue - he was constantly busy under GG but when we played under Hoddle he had less to do but seemed to let basic errors creep into his game.

 

[Jurgen the German]

really? has he shown that with us this season do you think?

Only a small sample of games I know but I can't remember too many mistakes that have led to goals, the only big mistake I can recall was in the Villa home game where he threw the ball directly to a Villa player (Albrighton I think) and that player crossed it to Benteke who missed a sitter. But his decision making, shot stopping ability, handling of crosses and composure have impressed me to no end! I knew he was a class keeper based in his play for France but I had no idea how good he really is.

And there definitely is a dearth of talent when it comes to great keepers in our league.

 

[JPG_357]

I don't think the comments are premature at all. The guy was world class when he came to us. People keep downplaying his status in the game IMHO. He was captain of France and a CL regular, so is proven over many seasons. AVB put his status back a little by not making him No.1 and the French were rightly incensed. I think AVB was poor over the Lloris affair but glad he's finally seen sense.

As for the best keeper in the country, it's the way Hugo keeps goal so elegantly that makes me think that. He looks a cut above most Prem keepers, and I certainly think he's the best but can see the argument for Cech, who's making a resurgence in form.

Far from overrating Hugo, I think a lot of Spurs fans are/were underrating him, and the idea that some had that Brad was as good as him was way off beam, IMHO.

 

[JerusalemMan]

This is good to read

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1285432?cc=5739

"I have fun every day. I'm here to improve and push myself in a different context. It's important in sporting terms, but also personally," he said. "A goalkeeper has to be the master of his penalty box, even if it's trickier here than elsewhere. You always have two men blocking your path at corners. That's part of English football. You have to accept it, and make the right decisions, even if things happen quickly. It's difficult to hold balls because there are so many people, so it's better to punch. You have that same battle everywhere, but in England it's true that you're a little less protected than elsewhere."

 

[Spursalot]

I don't think the comments are premature at all. The guy was world class when he came to us. People keep downplaying his status in the game IMHO. He was captain of France and a CL regular, so is proven over many seasons. AVB put his status back a little by not making him No.1 and the French were rightly incensed. I think AVB was poor over the Lloris affair but glad he's finally seen sense.

As for the best keeper in the country, it's the way Hugo keeps goal so elegantly that makes me think that. He looks a cut above most Prem keepers, and I certainly think he's the best but can see the argument for Cech, who's making a resurgence in form.

Far from overrating Hugo, I think a lot of Spurs fans are/were underrating him, and the idea that some had that Brad was as good as him was way off beam, IMHO.

I think most spurs fans were rating him on his performances here. Which were not world class. However after being given time to adapt to the league and get used to his back four, he has improved upon those performances.



Brad was performing as well as him, he was not 'as good as him' there is a huge difference.

 

[onlyme]

One thing that annoys me about Lloris is that when we are winning with minutes to go he catches or stops a ball that is going into touch. Brad always used to let those go and use up a minute or so of time and also calm down the play.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I agree with you. The world class and best in the league comments are premature. Especially as one of the key qualities you want from a top class goalkeeper is consistency and by definition you can't judge that over a very small sample. Another point is how the goalkeeper responds to a poor patch of form (or luck), this as well can only be seen over time. We've seen several goalies just for us look very good and then not manage to lift themselves when they hit a poor patch. Since you mention Reina I think he belongs in this category at the moment at least.

It's only natural for fans to overrate their own players though... We've done it with loads of players in the past and we'll keep doing it in the future, just like fans of every other side in the world.

I agree we do overrate our players to some extent, Assou Ekotto is a great example, he's nowhere near the best left back in the league as some of our fans describe him as.

But I definitely think there is some merit in saying Lloris is the best keeper in the league. I certainly couldn't name more than 2 or 3 keepers who are playing better than him.

 

[JPG_357]

BAE is way over rated by many of our fans, JD and Aaron used to be similarly overrated, but are now justifying their status. Lloris isn't over-rated, as I say if anything he is under-rated.

Spurs fans often under rate our our own players, I can go back to the days of Venables and Mullery for such treatment, following them there's a whole list including Pratt, Armstrong, Bent, YP Lee, Jenas, Crouch, right up to Dempsey in our current team, though hopefully that's changing. But you would have thought we were buying a championship player the way many greeted his arrival not a proven quality Prem player, who was an absolute bargain at the price.

 

[Pandy]

I think most spurs fans were rating him on his performances here. Which were not world class. However after being given time to adapt to the league and get used to his back four, he has improved upon those performances.



Brad was performing as well as him, he was not 'as good as him' there is a huge difference.

This is a very general statement... Friedel wasn't performing badly but equally he offered distinct weaknesses. He is 41 and as a result is not very athletic, but he has never been the sort of keeper to try to dominate the box a la Lloris anyway. We would concede many goals from set pieces as a result of Friedel's immobility and subsequent reluctance to attack the ball from set pieces. Lloris said himself that you cannot try to catch the ball if you go out and protect your box, the fact that he makes lots of punches demonstrates that he is contesting many more balls than Friedel ever did, and this helps our defence.

Pressing aggressively higher up the pitch also means that the defence must move forward in order to keep the team compact, therefore a lot of space will be left behind the defence. Friedel, although an excellent reader of the game, was not athletic or technical enough to come out and deal with the ball outside of his box, nor did he have the passing ability to act as an effective outlet for pressure on the defence. For example against Reading I remember Lloris receiving the ball from a throw and switching it to the opposite flank, something Friedel would have been more reluctant to do.

Friedel was never going to be a super keeper at this age, I think lots of Spurs fans just believed what Harry was telling the media (and they were repeating). He was signed as a reliable, experienced head to replace the erratic Gomes. I think, at their best, Gomes is the better of the two keepers, but he was far too erratic and Friedel provided a dependable pair of hands.

Lloris is a step up. Not only is he a good keeper in objective terms, but he is far more suited to the style of football AVB is looking to play and has what could be his best 10 years of football ahead of him. Friedel is bloody good backup though.

 

[Pandy]

Lloris wasn't amazing from game 1, and wasn't necessarily better than Friedel but defenders and goalkeepers rarely are, they need time to bed in. Which is what makes Vertonghen's swift adaption to Spurs and the Premiership so impressive. Now he is getting settled Lloris looks the nuts.

 

[braineclipse]

One thing that annoys me about Lloris is that when we are winning with minutes to go he catches or stops a ball that is going into touch. Brad always used to let those go and use up a minute or so of time and also calm down the play.

Don't you think it's a conscious decision?

If you let it go into touch you can waste some time, but then the opponents will normally be able to force you into a long punt forward. If you pick it up you might have a better chance of starting short allowing the team to waste time by passing it around instead.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

I don't think the comments are premature at all. The guy was world class when he came to us. People keep downplaying his status in the game IMHO. He was captain of France and a CL regular, so is proven over many seasons. AVB put his status back a little by not making him No.1 and the French were rightly incensed. I think AVB was poor over the Lloris affair but glad he's finally seen sense.

As for the best keeper in the country, it's the way Hugo keeps goal so elegantly that makes me think that. He looks a cut above most Prem keepers, and I certainly think he's the best but can see the argument for Cech, who's making a resurgence in form.

Far from overrating Hugo, I think a lot of Spurs fans are/were underrating him, and the idea that some had that Brad was as good as him was way off beam, IMHO.

I disagree, in hindsight I think AVB handled it excellently. Hugo himself has come out to say that he needed time to bed in and get used to the league. Despite intense pressure from the media and from the French AVB did exactly that, introduced him slowly and gave him the time he needed. I think we are now reaping the benifits of that, imagine the madness had he thrown him in at the deep end and he had made a high profile error, he would be 'Gomez Mark 2' and the media would have been all over him and AVB. It's not like Brad was absolutely pants and keeping him in goal was costing us points at the time.

 

[JPG_357]

I don't think Brad was performing as well as Hugo, the minute Hugo came in he kept a clean sheet v Lazio, and by the time he played in the Villa game, (another clean sheet, somethng Brad hasn't achieved all season) he was definitely performing better than Brad. A clear example was the Agbonlahor chance, where Hugo got to the forward in the nick of time, something Brad wouldn't have been able to do.

I think AVB should have kept Hugo in after the Lazio game, but definitely after the Villa game, and so I don't think he handled the situation well at all. He ran a grave risk of alienating a top class player and the country he captains, and was unfair in the favouritism he showed towards Brad. Brad was costing us points, a clear example being the Chelsea game he was unfairly selected for, where Lloris would have been the far better keeper to face them.

Also the costly goals against Norwich, Wigan and West Brom all involved keeper errors. I also suspect Hugo would have done better than Brad in the Toon and City games too.

 

[braineclipse]

I disagree, in hindsight I think AVB handled it excellently. Hugo himself has come out to say that he needed time to bed in and get used to the league. Despite intense pressure from the media and from the French AVB did exactly that, introduced him slowly and gave him the time he needed. I think we are now reaping the benifits of that, imagine the madness had he thrown him in at the deep end and he had made a high profile error, he would be 'Gomez Mark 2' and the media would have been all over him and AVB. It's not like Brad was absolutely pants and keeping him in goal was costing us points at the time.

Exactly!

You need only look to De Gea at United, and the following drop in confidence when he was eventually dropped having been first choice from the get go. And De Gea had been at United for their entire pre-season if I remember correctly, not brought in on deadline day.

 

[braineclipse]

I don't think Brad was performing as well as Hugo, the minute Hugo came in he kept a clean sheet v Lazio, and by the time he played in the Villa game, (another clean sheet, somethng Brad hasn't achieved all season) he was definitely performing better than Brad. A clear example was the Agbonlahor chance, where Hugo got to the forward in the nick of time, something Brad wouldn't have been able to do.

I think AVB should have kept Hugo in after the Lazio game, but definitely after the Villa game, and so I don't think he handled the situation well at all. He ran a grave risk of alienating a top class player and the country he captains, and was unfair in the favouritism he showed towards Brad. Brad was costing us points, a clear example being the Chelsea game he was unfairly selected for, where Lloris would have been the far better keeper to face them.

Also the costly goals against Norwich, Wigan and West Brom all involved keeper errors. I also suspect Hugo would have done better than Brad in the Toon and City games too.

How do you know that?

The media speculations?

AVB has said that he talks with the players every day, how do you know that he ran a risk of alienating Hugo? Hugo also made some public statements saying that although he wanted to be first choice sooner or later, preferably sooner (not even a paraphrase) he was happy to fight for his place for now.

Your definition of "keeper error" is as wide as it is for those who really wanted us to keep Friedel in goal ahead of Hugo and who found some way to blame Hugo for most the goals we conceded when he did play.

 

[JPG_357]

How do you know that?

The media speculations?

AVB has said that he talks with the players every day, how do you know that he ran a risk of alienating Hugo? Hugo also made some public statements saying that although he wanted to be first choice sooner or later, preferably sooner (not even a paraphrase) he was happy to fight for his place for now.

Your definition of "keeper error" is as wide as it is for those who really wanted us to keep Friedel in goal ahead of Hugo and who found some way to blame Hugo for most the goals we conceded when he did play.

As you say I got that impression from the media, from the public outbursts by Deschamps and et al, and also from Hugo himself saying he expected to be No. 1 straightaway (and rightly so). I don't think the captain of France would have been at all happy playing second fiddle to a 41 year old. I certainly was livid about the situation, and I supect Levy wasn't happy either that the highest-ranked signing that ENIC have ever made, an absolute coup, was warming the bench.

I think comparing Lloris to De Gea is to massively under rate Lloris, something that Spurs fans have done and continue to do, IMHO. Hugo is a better keeper than De Gea with a different temperament and skill set, so why compare the two. It's true they're both foreign, but really that's not sufficient as a comparision.

 

[braineclipse]

As you say I got that impression from the media, from the public outbursts by Deschamps and et al, and also from Hugo himself saying he expected to be No. 1 straightaway (and rightly so). I don't think the captain of France would have been at all happy playing second fiddle to a 41 year old. I certainly was livid about the situation, and I supect Levy wasn't happy either that the highest-ranked signing that ENIC have ever made, an absolute coup, was warming the bench.

I think comparing Lloris to De Gea is to massively under rate Lloris, something that Spurs fans have done and continue to do, IMHO. Hugo is a better keeper than De Gea with a different temperament and skill set, so why compare the two. It's true they're both foreign, but really that's not sufficient as a comparision.

Why you would trust information from the tabloids I don't understand.

I see nothing other than baseless speculation to support your point that the situation was poorly handled by AVB. The fact is there have even been comments from Hugo himself saying that it took him some time to adjust, indicating that giving him some time to settle was a good thing. He also made comments to contradict media reports that he was unsettled. AVB also clearly denied that there was a problem between him and Hugo. What more do you want? The tabloids to admit that they sometimes make brick up?

I didn't compare Lloris to De Gea, I compared the situation. Everyone knows that goalkeeping errors happen sometimes and everyone knows that the pressure on an expensive new goalkeeper at at top side in England is going to be pretty massive. Attempting to minimize this pressure early on seems like a great idea. Especially when it can be done by playing a good, solid goalkeeper who was good enough to help us secure 4th the previous season while carrying some continuity in a squad that was going through a lot of changes.

 

[Poker Boy]

Why you would trust information from the tabloids I don't understand.

Because it suits his 'theory' :-k