Harry Redknapp: The Aftermath

[ArcspacE]

Eltrev - we have been on relegation form since the NLD. That's close to 2 months now.

If you genunienly believe there is nothing wrong with that because we're still 4th and want to exonerate Arry from all blame because we won a few earlier - that's you perogative, but don't beat me with the pro-Arry stick

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

But you would still move him on, thats why I questioned it.

I have to say mate you have lost me now, I suspect we are talking about entirely different things at this point.

In short, Harry has done a good job. I think another manager could do a better job. Thats it really.

 

[elltrev]

What if we don't, eltrev - what then? What if we collapse life soft qunts for a few more games? Would it then be our worst implosion in decades? How would you judge Arry then?

We drew to Wolves, Stoke and lost to Norwich at home = 7 points dropped.

4th doesn't qualify us for the CL btw - we still have to play 2 legs to a top European side in order to make the group stage. 50/50 chance at best. We got MASSIVELY lucky with Young Boys 2 years ago (easiest of all 5 options) and still nearly ****ed it up.

Again, this just comes down to you being pessimistic, and me being... well, not even optimistic, just reserving judgement until these 5 games are over. If we contiune with poor results for the final games of the season, and don't get 4th, I'll be gutted, tinkled off, and I won't be against replacing Harry if we can get someone good in.

But you're even being negative about getting 4th, and the fact that we 'nearly' fudged it up last year (even though we didn't, and then went on to win our group and beat AC Milan).... think you need to try and be a bit positive in your life mate, must be depressing seeing the worst in everything all the time!

 

[totman]

I have to say mate you have lost me now, I suspect we are talking about entirely different things at this point.

In short, Harry has done a good job. I think another manager could do a better job. Thats it really.

Fair do's...lets move on!

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Yes they do - but far less often, which is my point really

Before we had brick players - now we have a qualiy side. Someone needs to step up

It's happened to us twice. It's happened to Barca at least twice this season. It's happened to Man United at least twice.

And these teams have far better players than us.

The problem lately has been winning points in the marginal games that could go either way. We haven't been clinical or ruthless enough, but the performances for the most part haven't actually been the problem.

 

[ArcspacE]

Again, this just comes down to you being pessimistic, and me being... well, not even optimistic, just reserving judgement until these 5 games are over. If we contiune with poor results for the final games of the season, and don't get 4th, I'll be gutted, tinkled off, and I won't be against replacing Harry if we can get someone good in.

But you're even being negative about getting 4th, and the fact that we 'nearly' fudged it up last year (even though we didn't, and then went on to win our group and beat AC Milan).... think you need to try and be a bit positive in your life mate, must be depressing seeing the worst in everything all the time!

I am a negative person but life and Spurs have thought me better! lol

As I mentioned to you earlier - I'd want nothing more than CL but have also braced for impact whereas there appears to be a strong pro-Arry reacharound on the assumption we've gotten 4th and won the FA Cup already. Which is equally as bad as assuming we've managed 6th, I suppose

 

[ArcspacE]

It's happened to us twice. It's happened to Barca at least twice this season. It's happened to Man United at least twice.

And these teams have far better players than us.

The problem lately has been winning points in the marginal games that could go either way. We haven't been clinical or ruthless enough, but the performances for the most part haven't actually been the problem.

Sorry mate, but you must have very different standards

Bar Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Swansea (most parts) we have been utter pants since January and deserved NOTHING out of the games we've drawn/lost

 

[elltrev]

Eltrev - we have been on relegation form since the NLD. That's close to 2 months now.

If you genunienly believe there is nothing wrong with that because we're still 4th and want to exonerate Arry from all blame because we won a few earlier - that's you perogative, but don't beat me with the pro-Arry stick

You still seem to be completely missing my point... I've never said there's nothing wrong with that, I'm just saying that 4th will still be a good achievement this season and that I'm reserving judgement until the end of the season.

 

[ArcspacE]

You still seem to be completely missing my point... I've never said there's nothing wrong with that, I'm just saying that 4th will still be a good achievement this season and that I'm reserving judgement until the end of the season.

But you aren't really are you?

This very 'pro' thread is mere proof - and please don't take this the wrong way, I'm simply pointing out your stance.

We need to revisit all this in May and re-evaluate. The pain and sorrow of seeing Arsenal make up 15 points has sent many of us to NT.

 

[elltrev]

I am a negative person but life and Spurs have thought me better! lol

As I mentioned to you earlier - I'd want nothing more than CL but have also braced for impact whereas there appears to be a strong pro-Arry reacharound on the assumption we've gotten 4th and won the FA Cup already. Which is equally as bad as assuming we've managed 6th, I suppose

Haha, fair enough, maybe we should all take a break from the forum until the end of the season, THEN we can judge the players and manager for where we've finished. At the moment any discussion seems based on whether you're being optimistic or pessimistic, neither of which are necessarily more justified than the other I guess.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Lack of spending is the biggest factor as to why we are struggling now and why we struggles towards the end of last season. It's obvious for every Spurs fan to see that we've needed to buy a striker in the last 3 windows.

Levy is obviously holding back on spending because:

The new stadium is affecting our transfer budget despite Levy saying it wouldn't.

Or

Levy is reluctant to let Harry spend as he knows Harry will be off in the summer.

 

[elltrev]

But you aren't really are you?

This very 'pro' thread is mere proof - and please don't take this the wrong way, I'm simply pointing out your stance.

We need to revisit all this in May and re-evaluate. The pain and sorrow of seeing Arsenal make up 15 points has send many of us to NT.

Agreed. And I'm only being 'pro' to balance out the 'anti' - trying to tell the other side of the story or play devil's advocate is just what I do naturally, and I felt that the forum was unbalanced with negativity (understandably).

 

[Klinsmania]

It's happened to us twice. It's happened to Barca at least twice this season. It's happened to Man United at least twice.

And these teams have far better players than us.

The problem lately has been winning points in the marginal games that could go either way. We haven't been clinical or ruthless enough, but the performances for the most part haven't actually been the problem.

Spot on. We were brick in the NLD and deserved to lose. Then against Utd we were the better side for the first hour, and had the better chances. Then they scored twice in quick succession and after that the game changed. Had one of our earlier chances gone in the result may have been different. Against Everton we were poor in the first half and deserved to be 1 - 0 down. Second half we were all over them, but didn't get the goal our performance deserved. We should have got at least a point and were unlucky not to do so. Then against Stoke, we had most of the ball, and all of the chances yet they scored with probably their only chance of the game. Again, on the balance of play and chances created we should have won that game but just lacked that little bit of luck that was needed. Same story against Chelsea. There have been several games where with a bit of luck (which we have lacked completely since Christmas) we could easily have had an extra 5 points, and this whole thread would be irrelevant.

All this talk of tactics etc is interesting, but sometimes a team just needs to get the rub of the green, and we never seem to get it. The scum do, that's the main difference since February.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Sorry mate, but you must have very different standards

Bar Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Swansea (most parts) we have been utter pants since January and deserved NOTHING out of the games we've drawn/lost

Wolves at home we probably deserved to win.

Liverpool away they didn't really threaten us what so ever and we missed the best chance of the game with Bale's one on one.

We deserved something out of Everton away. Saha missed a sitter and they didn't enter our half for the entire second half.

We deserved at least a point out of Man United at home.

We deserved to comfortably beat Chelsea on their own ground.


Stoke, Norwich and Sunderland we probably didn't deserve more than we got, but we had some poor performances earlier in the season where we managed to get the breaks and the ball bounced in our favour. We also have had Lennon out during this tough period and unlike teams with more money than us, don't have a like for like replacement that can allow us to keep playing the same way. And it's because of budgetary restrictions like that which mean that 4th place is always going to be a good acheivement considering how far above our weight we are punching with what we spend on wages and what we have actually spent on transfer fees over the last couple of years.

 

[elltrev]

Spot on. We were brick in the NLD and deserved to lose. Then against Utd we were the better side for the first hour, and had the better chances. Then they scored twice in quick succession and after that the game changed. Had one of our earlier chances gone in the result may have been different. Against Everton we were poor in the first half and deserved to be 1 - 0 down. Second half we were all over them, but didn't get the goal our performance deserved. We should have got at least a point and were unlucky to do so. Then against Stoke, we had most of the ball, and all of the chances yet they scored with probably their only chance of the game. Again, on the balance of play and chances created we should have won that game but just lacked that little bit of luck that was needed. Same story against Chelsea. There have been several games where with a bit of luck (which we have lacked completely since Christmas) we could easily have had an extra 5 points, and this whole thread would be irrelevant.

All this talk of tactics etc is interesting, but sometimes a team just needs to get the rub of the green, and we never seem to get it. The scum do, that's the main difference since February.

HEAR F*CKING HEAR! Though I'm sure we had some good luck during our great run; we definitely didn't deserve 3 points away to Fulham or Blackburn, for example.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

think you need to try and be a bit positive in your life mate, must be depressing seeing the worst in everything all the time!

Ive had similar said to me before. Truth be told I am a very positive person. Even now I hav eno doubt Im banded as some negative Harry hating dour fan - and yet my sole motivation here is the belief we can be even better than we are now...

 

[ArcspacE]

Sadly games aren't won on chances created but on those taken and clinically finished.

We lacked the personell / abiliy to do that hence the result

 

[BrainOfLevy]

HEAR F*CKING HEAR! Though I'm sure we had some good luck during our great run; we definitely didn't deserve 3 points away to Fulham or Blackburn, for example.

True dat.

Maybe with Lennon and Bale both back and fit at the same time we can start picking up points again. It sucks that we are so reliant on key players being fit but at the end of the day that's what being a club run sustainably on a budget means. If we could afford another awesome winger to come in and be willing to rotate then that would be fantastic, but we can't.

When we were clearly the 'best of the rest' team, we had a sqaud that the other teams below us would wish they had. The kind of players we had on our bench would have done jobs for the 5 of the remaining top half teams, and would have been regular starters. But now we are looking upwards, and we are competing with teams that have 3 guys that can come in and play the wide positions well. City have Johnson, Nasri, Ballotelli on the wings and Dzeko, Tevez and Aguero upfront. United have Young, Nani and Valencia, and Rooney, Hernandez, Welbeck and Berbatov upfront. We have only Bale and Lennon on the wings, and have been lucky with Adebayor remaining fit as Saha would probably have to come in at some point. Our depth is much better than the lower top half teams, but much weaker than the very best in the country. Krancjar, Defoe, Dos Santos etc would all do a good job at the likes of Villa (I'm being harsh lumping Defoe in there, but he's there to illustrate the point) but wouldn't get a look in at the Manchester clubs. Even Arsenal have Oxlade, Walcott and Gervinho for their wing options, and they've been lucky with RVP, but we've been lucky with Adebayor.

Harry is a victim of his own success. We got results at the start of the season and everything looked rosey. Then the England thing happened, and Lennon got injured, and our luck turned. But that's why you should judge over a season. If we have Lennon, Bale and Adebayor all fit for 38 league games we may well have been able to get third, but we would have been extremely lucky to do so.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Spot on. We were brick in the NLD and deserved to lose. Then against Utd we were the better side for the first hour, and had the better chances. Then they scored twice in quick succession and after that the game changed. Had one of our earlier chances gone in the result may have been different. Against Everton we were poor in the first half and deserved to be 1 - 0 down. Second half we were all over them, but didn't get the goal our performance deserved. We should have got at least a point and were unlucky not to do so. Then against Stoke, we had most of the ball, and all of the chances yet they scored with probably their only chance of the game. Again, on the balance of play and chances created we should have won that game but just lacked that little bit of luck that was needed. Same story against Chelsea. There have been several games where with a bit of luck (which we have lacked completely since Christmas) we could easily have had an extra 5 points, and this whole thread would be irrelevant.

All this talk of tactics etc is interesting, but sometimes a team just needs to get the rub of the green, and we never seem to get it. The scum do, that's the main difference since February.

Spot on. Arsenal got battered by Liverpool and somehow managed to get away with 3 points when 1 would have flattered them. Everton had a perfectly good goal disallowed against them also.

I think it's a combination of them peaking at the right time and us losing our form at the wrong time, and a bit of luck along the way.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Sadly games aren't won on chances created but on those taken and clinically finished.

We lacked the personell / abiliy to do that hence the result

You're not wrong.

But that's not a 'Harry's tactical knowledge and ability as a manager' problem. That's a 'Harry works at a club with nowhere near the budget of the 3 clubs above us, or the Saudi Sportswashing Machine's, Chelsea's and Liverpool's below us' problem.

We have a 36,000 seater stadium. Our wage cap is about 70k a week. The fact that we are in the top 4 discussion at all while the likes of Villa, Sunderland and Liverpool (!) are no where near is a serious testament to his excellent football management. There's no reason we should actually be so far ahead of these other clubs. They have about as much money as us, but it's us who are there, fighting the Manchester clubs, fighting Arsenal, fighting oil rich Chelsea. Fighting Saudi Sportswashing Machine with their 56,000 seater stadium. Why are we there? Yes we have good players, but it's because they have either been signed under Harry or were developed and playing the best football of their careers under him. Bale didn't have to turn into a world class winger that will probably go to Barcelona. Assou-Ekotto didn't have to turn into one of the most reliable and classy left backs in the league. Ditto Kaboul at centre back. Walker didn't have to be good enough to be a serious consideration to be England's starting right back at Euro 2012. Modric didn't have to become a player capable of breaking the mould of the 'cut inside playmaker' and be capable of playing in the middle. Livermore didn't have to become a worthy squad member of a side challenging for 3rd place. Hell, a couple of years ago Huddlestone didn't have to become a midfielder capable of pulling the strings in a side chasing the Champions League, beating Arsenal, Chelsea and City on route.

All of these players became who they were under Harry. Villa have had money. So have Sunderland. So have Liverpool. All of them have as much, or in Liverpool's case, far more than us. Why are we where we are at all? Why have players that could have easily fell by the wayside, or gone on to play for teams in mid-table, fulfilling their potential and helping us fight the biggest, richest clubs in the league? It's canny management, and we are lucky to have him.