Harry Redknapp: The Aftermath

[ArcspacE]

This often gets thrown at Harry now, but really it isn't a negative point on him, it's just his chosen style.

He likes to give players freedom to express themselves.

I have no issue with that, mate - however the problem comes when we're on the backfoot or struggling to break down cloggers = ZERO Plan B

We then look clueless and void of any plan - simply waiting for a moment of individual brilliance which lately hasn't really happened hence the slump in form

 

[elltrev]

Wenger, Ferguson, Mancini, Moyes, Pardew, ONeil, Lambert, Rodgers, Pulis and Martinez are all streets ahead of him with regard to preparing a team and embedding a style of play.

Possibly only Ferguson is above him with regards to motivating players.

Plenty in front of him in the transfer market.

As an overall package? Probably about 5/6th. Though its hard to say given that there are a good few managers who havent enjoyed the resources Harry has.

Which 4 or 5 do you think are ahead of him overall?

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I have no issue with that, mate - however the problem comes when we're on the backfoot or struggling to break down cloggers = ZERO Plan B

We then look clueless and void of any plan - simply waiting for a moment of individual brilliance which lately hasn't really happened hence the slump in form

What exactly should this plan B be?

If a team comes to us with the sole intention of defending and playing for a 0-0, sometimes it will work! It happens to Fergie, Wenger, Rodgers, Lambert, all of them. I'm sure we work on ways of doing it in training before games where we expect it to happen, and indeed many teams we have broken down even though they've come to defend. Villa played Alan Hutton at right wing and we were very comfortable! But just as in Poker your aces will get cracked by a set, sometimes in football that inferior team that comes to defend will simply do what they acheived to do.

As far as I'm concerned we've played a number of different ways under Harry. We've played with a deep lying forward in Keane behind Bent, we've played with a little and large combination in Crouch and Defoe. We've played with a target man and attacking midfielder with Crouch and Rafa, and we've played with more finnese with Adebayor and Defoe, or Adebayor and Rafa. We've also shown ourselves capable of mixing it up playing an open 4-4-2 or a defensive 4-5-1 and had success with both. We've also been successful playing playmakers on the wings like Niko against Liverpool at home as well as having two wingers.

We've mixed it up well enough and Harry has the knowledge to prepare the team in a number of given ways. But it doesn't change the fact that sometimes a team will come to defend and simply do what they set out to do.

 

[ArcspacE]

What exactly should this plan B be?

If a team comes to us with the sole intention of defending and playing for a 0-0, sometimes it will work! It happens to Fergie, Wenger, Rodgers, Lambert, all of them. I'm sure we work on ways of doing it in training before games where we expect it to happen, and indeed many teams we have broken down even though they've come to defend. Villa played Alan Hutton at right wing and we were very comfortable! But just as in Poker your aces will get cracked by a set, sometimes in football that inferior team that comes to defend will simply do what they acheived to do.

As far as I'm concerned we've played a number of different ways under Harry. We've played with a deep lying forward in Keane behind Bent, we've played with a little and large combination in Crouch and Defoe. We've played with a target man and attacking midfielder with Crouch and Rafa, and we've played with more finnese with Adebayor and Defoe, or Adebayor and Rafa. We've also shown ourselves capable of mixing it up playing an open 4-4-2 or a defensive 4-5-1 and had success with both. We've also been successful playing playmakers on the wings like Niko against Liverpool at home as well as having two wingers.

We've mixed it up well enough and Harry has the knowledge to prepare the team in a number of given ways. But it doesn't change the fact that sometimes a team will come to defend and simply do what they set out to do.

Look at how Utd have been grinding our results against cloggers for years. We struggle time and time again. Then conceded in the 78th minute from their only chance and lose the game.

We play a variation of the same system under Arry. One with VdV and one with 2 out-and-out strikers up top. That is a grand-total of 2 formations. His other variation lately has been the roaming Bale which is quite frankly becoming ridiculous.

 

[totman]

The fact that people hold up arguably the best manager in the world as the comparison to which Redknapp is judged by, shows how unfair his treatment is. Who ever expected us to be like Man U? Deluded

 

[totman]

Wenger, Ferguson, Mancini, Moyes, Pardew, ONeil, Lambert, Rodgers, Pulis and Martinez are all streets ahead of him with regard to preparing a team and embedding a style of play.

Possibly only Ferguson is above him with regards to motivating players.

Plenty in front of him in the transfer market.

As an overall package? Probably about 5/6th. Though its hard to say given that there are a good few managers who havent enjoyed the resources Harry has.

You rate him as 5th or 6th best, but actually finishing 4th this season would be unacceptable?

 

[ArcspacE]

A vile troll appears to have infiltrated yet another thread with zero intention of actual discussion instead resorting yet again to pathetic name-calling and fishing

Play the ball and not the man? Righto

 

[totman]

http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/announcement.php?f=2

Do what you gotta do, I have

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Look at how Utd have been grinding our results against cloggers for years. We struggle time and time again. Then conceded in the 78th minute from their only chance and lose the game.

We play a variation of the same system under Arry. One with VdV and one with 2 out-and-out strikers up top. That is a grand-total of 2 formations. His other variation lately has been the roaming Bale which is quite frankly becoming ridiculous.

And yet, just this season United have drawn at home to Saudi Sportswashing Machine and lost at home to Blackburn. We've failed against Stoke and Wolves here, but thems the breaks. United have the luxury of 3 wingers that they can rotate and keep fresh, where as if Bale or Lennon go down, we don't have anyone to come in and play the same way. It can happen to any team.

On the other hand we've broken down Villa, West Brom, Everton, Sunderland etc. All teams that have come here with the sole intention of frustrating us.

 

[ArcspacE]

You asked me about Plan B - I gave you an example. Utd also have 21 more points than us in the league

Until we can achieve that 'break-down' on a consistent level - it would always be a massive setback for us both tactially and mentally

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

You rate him as 5th or 6th best, but actually finishing 4th this season would be unacceptable?

Just this morning you quoted and agreed with my statement that 4th would be a success this season, and yet tinged with disappointment.

Clearly you are now just trying to attribute pov's to me that are not mine.

He might be the 5th/6th best manager, but is his team the 5th/6th best?

Where should those resources be finishing this season if managed to their full potential?

 

[BrainOfLevy]

You asked me about Plan B - I gave you an example. Utd also have 21 more points than us in the league

Until we can achieve that 'break-down' on a consistent level - it would always be a massive setback for us both tactially and mentally

Until this bad run of form we were doing quite well at breaking teams down. It also can't be denied that all teams go through it. Even United. They also have the benefit of more money to spend than us, and a club mentality that has seen them simply be used to winning titles every year. And yet it still happens to them. And if it can happen to them, it can happen to us.

We've failed to break defensive teams down on two occasions at home this season, and also Sunderland away. Almost every club will experience that. City haven't at home yet.

Doesn't mean Redknapp is somehow clueless just because our club experiences what every other club does. I have given examples of different formations we have used, both attacking and defensive, and also different types of players we have used in certain positions. All the tactical knowledge in the world and having plans from A-Z wouldn't change the fact that at some point in the season we will annoyingly fail to break down defensive teams.

 

[totman]

Just this morning you quoted and agreed with my statement that 4th would be a success this season, and yet tinged with disappointment.

Clearly you are now just trying to attribute pov's to me that are not mine.

He might be the 5th/6th best manager, but is his team the 5th/6th best?

Where should those resources be finishing this season if managed to their full potential?

But you would still move him on, thats why I questioned it.

 

[elltrev]

You asked me about Plan B - I gave you an example. Utd also have 21 more points than us in the league

Until we can achieve that 'break-down' on a consistent level - it would always be a massive setback for us both tactially and mentally

But this 'break-down' hasn't been the issue for us this season? We haven't really been drawing and losing at home to the bottom teams during this slump. We've lost away to Emirates Marketing Project, home to United, away to Everton and home to Norwich (which wasn't a case of failing to break them down). And we've drawn away to Liverpool, away to Chelsea, home to Stoke and away to Sunderland. Only the last two could really be called a failure to grind out results against cloggers, though they are 12th and 11th respectively.

We now have 5 relatively easy games on paper; if we win 4 of them, we will have achieved our best points total in decades, and will almost definitely have qualified for the Champions League. I understand that people are feeling negative after our recent run, but so did Arsenal fans about theirs, and they've recently won 6 out of 7.

If we don't finish well, and we finish 5th or even 6th, I'll be as gutted as anybody. But until that happens, I'm going to judge the team on what they've done OVERALL this season, which is get to 4th with 5 games to go.

 

[ArcspacE]

Brain of Levy - few points

- it happens far less to them or other harder teams

- we certainly now have the qualitiy players to do that (as proven earlier in the season) - so then it has to be down to the manager. Simple as

- he doesn't know how to deal with this - just look at Sunderland away. Playing for a draw, etc.

- there is no way you can conclusively state 'All the tactical knowledge in the world and having plans from A-Z wouldn't change the fact that at some point in the season we will annoyingly fail to break down defensive teams' as often as we do now

 

[elltrev]

Just this morning you quoted and agreed with my statement that 4th would be a success this season, and yet tinged with disappointment.

Clearly you are now just trying to attribute pov's to me that are not mine.

He might be the 5th/6th best manager, but is his team the 5th/6th best?

Where should those resources be finishing this season if managed to their full potential?

Between 3rd and 5th I would say.

 

[ArcspacE]

But this 'break-down' hasn't been the issue for us this season? We haven't really been drawing and losing at home to the bottom teams during this slump. We've lost away to Emirates Marketing Project, home to United, away to Everton and home to Norwich (which wasn't a case of failing to break them down). And we've drawn away to Liverpool, away to Chelsea, home to Stoke and away to Sunderland. Only the last two could really be called a failure to grind out results against cloggers, though they are 12th and 11th respectively.

We now have 5 relatively easy games on paper; if we win 4 of them, we will have achieved our best points total in decades, and will almost definitely have qualified for the Champions League. I understand that people are feeling negative after our recent run, but so did Arsenal fans about theirs, and they've recently won 6 out of 7.

If we don't finish well, and we finish 5th or even 6th, I'll be as gutted as anybody. But until that happens, I'm going to judge the team on what they've done OVERALL this season, which is get to 4th with 5 games to go.

What if we don't, eltrev - what then? What if we collapse life soft qunts for a few more games? Would it then be our worst implosion in decades? How would you judge Arry then?

We drew to Wolves, Stoke and lost to Norwich at home = 7 points dropped.

4th doesn't qualify us for the CL btw - we still have to play 2 legs to a top European side in order to make the group stage. 50/50 chance at best. We got MASSIVELY lucky with Young Boys 2 years ago (easiest of all 5 options) and still nearly ****ed it up.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Brain of Levy - few points

- it happens far less to them or other harder teams

- we certainly now have the qualitiy players to do that (as proven earlier in the season) - so then it has to be down to the manager. Simple as

- he doesn't know how to deal with this - just look at Sunderland away. Playing for a draw, etc.

- there is no way you can conclusively state 'All the tactical knowledge in the world and having plans from A-Z wouldn't change the fact that at some point in the season we will annoyingly fail to break down defensive teams' as often as we do now

Even Real Madrid and Barcelona occasionally fail to break teams down. If the best teams in the world sometimes play out a draw, I'm pretty sure it can happen to Spurs, and if it does, it doesn't neccesarily mean the failings lie in Redknapp's 'knowledge' of how to do such a thing.

 

[ArcspacE]

Yes they do - but far less often, which is my point really

Before we had brick players - now we have a qualiy side. Someone needs to step up

 

[elltrev]

Brain of Levy - few points

- it happens far less to them or other harder teams

- we certainly now have the qualitiy players to do that (as proven earlier in the season) - so then it has to be down to the manager. Simple as

- he doesn't know how to deal with this - just look at Sunderland away. Playing for a draw, etc.

- there is no way you can conclusively state 'All the tactical knowledge in the world and having plans from A-Z wouldn't change the fact that at some point in the season we will annoyingly fail to break down defensive teams' as often as we do now

You seem to be using one poor game against Sunderland as your evidence for this. We've played the currently bottom 8 teams 12 times this season. We've won 11, drawn 1, lost 0 .