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Harry Redknapp: The Aftermath
- Thread starter mick cooper
- Start date
The Moonlit Knight
Banned
It won't just be one off bonuses. They'll be clauses that players get a pay rise if we finish in x position or qualify for the Champion's League etc. So their basic would have risen also.
So according to this logic - it should go down this year since we failed to qualify for the CL last season (the one we finished 5th).
I don't find it questionable. It's a lot more sensible to have performance related contracts. If the club does well, the players are rewarded. It's far riskier having players on high, flat wages, as many clubs find out when they're relegated. This is probably something we've put in contracts for years now, knowing a certain percentage of the win money would go straight to the players. The bonuses would depend on how much we made, not be a fixed sum. There's no way we would suddenly increase our wage budget without knowing how much we were going to make, what if we had failed in the playoff?
The Moonlit Knight
Banned
I thought Gudjohnsen was a loan signing?
Irrespective of that, I don't think taking signings in isolation tells us much because a lot of it depends on what is already at the club. If you have a very young team, you need to hire old heads. If you have an old squad, you need younger players etc.
The real bottom line is there is no such thing as building for the future anymore. At least not past three years. The Champion's League has changed everything, so the correct strategy is to do your best to get the best team right now. That gives you a better chance of qualifying for the Champion's League, and once you're in that you have a better chance of attracting better players both for the now and the future. If you build for the future and don't qualify for it, all that happens is that the talent wants to leave for a Champion's League club.
As for Spurs? We have a young first team, whose average age is only really bumped up by two extremely older players (Friedel and Gallas) when they play.
The Moonlit Knight
Banned
I doubt there is a clause that reducing wages, beyond being relegated. The trigger for an improved contract is usually success (or amount of games, or being in the team of the year etc), but I don't believe it works the other way.
I also think this is one of the reasons why Champion League clubs get into so much debt. Existing players keep being rewarded more and more, and their rewards are covered by Champion's League cash. New players are not.
I have often marvelled at how Levy gets people to sign on low wages, and I think the answer is two fold.
a) He pays the agents a LOT of money. There was a table printed recently that showed Spurs paid the second most in agent fees or something.
b) Our players basics are low, but the rewards are high if the achieve.
DHSF
Les Ferdinand
You say he wasnt allowed tro spunk on second rate players yet people on here harp on that we have a squad full of overpaid mercenaries - so which is it?
I dont think Harry is going for mercenaries, he is going for players that we can afford and lets be honest generally some of em are the 'older' generation lot. We dont know how much we have, some on here seem to think we have millions, some here think we have a pittance and some on here think Harry cannot make his mind up. I dont know, you dont know, none of us know truly what the transfer budget is.
One thing though is that the wage budget is separate from the transfer budget... so our wages and hike in wages do not impact on the budget used to buy players.
Oh yeah and another thing - is it not Levy who negotiates contracts and salaries? It isnt Harry. So you simply cannot blame Harry for any wage increase that our finances will have seen.
Dorothy
Willem Korsten
Someone would need to put together a very strong business case for sacking your best performing manager of the last few decades for me to say anything other than NO to the suggestion. Are biggest job now is trying to keep our best players and building for next season. Ensuring that we have game changers up front and at the back and start to think about tyhe goalkeeping situation. The problem is Champions Leagues sides will come knocking for Modric, Bale, Walker, Benny, Adebayor, Parker etc etc and some of them will undoubtedly leave as them staying was conditional.
When I type that I start thinking sack the twitchy cant but we just didn't have the bottle AGAIN.
When I type that I start thinking sack the twitchy cant but we just didn't have the bottle AGAIN.
I was referring to the bonuses part - i.e. we couldn't have paid those since we finished 5th. A large percentage of that figure increase is attributed on here to bonuses since there is no way in hell Levy would put a clause in player's contracts which increases our team's wages by 30% based on a single CL qualification and absolutely zero proof we would make it again afterwards - completely unsustainable and borderline suicidal. Unless of course we are aiming to end up like Leeds Utd.
Realistic performance contracts, yes - not ones which would put our financial future in danger or hamper our abiliy to attract higher calibre players by reducing our transfer fee budget. Personally, I cannot see Levy doing that based on nothing more than precedents up to now - i.e. stringent operation of this club
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BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
I've been going round in circles thinking that on the one hand Harry should stay, but on the other he should go.
On the stay side, Harry has proven he can build a team and integrate signings quickly. He will get proven players, keep it relatively simple and hopefully keep disruption to a minimum. If we have to let one/both of Modric and Bale go I'm sure Harry would use the cash fairly wisely and replace them. Since we need to keep disruption low this summer in what is sure to be full of upheaval, Harry might be the best man to do it. Could we afford to let someone with totally new ideas come in, risk going even further backwards and taking longer to come back up?
On the go side, the collapse in form for the second season in a row has been heartbreaking this time. Maybe the players and the club need a new voice to give a renewed sense of purpose and motivation rather than listening to the same one that represents the collapse of the previous year. There is also the argument that we were are going to sell our key players and will need to rebuild the team, in which case it may be better to give the money to a new guy rather than give it to Harry who will likely leave after one year.
Maybe in our position we need someone with a bit more tactical flexibility rather than someone who in effect shrugs his shoulders and literally says 'we couldn't have done any more' when we were so close to third and had it well within our own hands. We were unlucky with bad calls, deflected goals and gifts for other teams around us but at the end of the day Harry felt that even from the position we were in that 4th was good enough. Someone like Martinez, who absolutely refused to believe that Wigan were going to get relegated, and worked his gonad*s off to find a new system to get results to improve, while having the absolute confidence in the club to say 'we are playing too well to get relegated' sounds like the kind of mentality we would need to over-perform ourselves, rather than accept the slide from certain 3rd place to scraping into 4th on the last day. Martinez wouldn't be perfect, and it would be a risk to sack someone who has gotten us 4th, 5th and 4th, but in terms of psychology of the club, giving us a new vision and renewing our sense of purpose and vigour, it may be best to hear someone else. I fear that otherwise we may suffer what teams that finish 3rd in the football league and then fail in the play offs go through, where they are so close to something they worked for so long to acheive and then can't shake the dissapointment. The confidence could take a while to return unless we have someone else at the head of the ship.
At the end of the day, whatever happens it's going to be between us, Arsenal, Liverpool, Saudi Sportswashing Machine and potentially Everton next season for 4th. Arsenal and Liverpool especially will spend money and we need to keep up with them. Man United, City and Chelsea will spend far beyond what we are capable of and have squads that we won't be able to get near unfortunately. So we need to look at our squad and see if:
Goalkeepers: Friedel, Cudicini
Defenders: Walker, Naughton, Caulker, Kaboul, Dawson, Assou-Ekotto
Midfield: Lennon, Sandro, Huddlestone, Parker
Forwards: Van Der Vaart.
...can be improved to compete with our closest competitors. I've put the worst case scenario there of selling Bale and Modric but on the plus side it will give us more money to spend to actually rebuild. Is Harry the best guy to do this or would someone like Rodgers or Martinez be better served going for it? That squad needs a centre back, a back up left back, a squad right winger, a central midfielder, 2 left sided options, and 3 forwards to have 2 good players in each position and therefore giving us enough cover to compete for the top 4. That's 9 players. If we sell Modric, Bale, Defoe, Dos Santos, Krancjar, Pienaar, Rose, and release Saha and Nelsen we should have the best part of ?ú100 million to spend and rebuilding. That's well over ?ú10 million per player that we need. Some may cost ?ú15M, some may cost ?ú5M, but that should be roughly enough to do it.
Part of me says Harry will be the right man to acclimatise all the new players we need to implement into the squad as quickly as possible, but another part says a new younger manager with a defined system would be better served taking that money and getting the exact players he needs to make it work. Maybe AVB joining Spurs would be a good match. Two entities that have suffered massive dissapointments at the hands of Chelsea, both have been knocked down and their reputations have suffered. Both have a point to prove.
On the stay side, Harry has proven he can build a team and integrate signings quickly. He will get proven players, keep it relatively simple and hopefully keep disruption to a minimum. If we have to let one/both of Modric and Bale go I'm sure Harry would use the cash fairly wisely and replace them. Since we need to keep disruption low this summer in what is sure to be full of upheaval, Harry might be the best man to do it. Could we afford to let someone with totally new ideas come in, risk going even further backwards and taking longer to come back up?
On the go side, the collapse in form for the second season in a row has been heartbreaking this time. Maybe the players and the club need a new voice to give a renewed sense of purpose and motivation rather than listening to the same one that represents the collapse of the previous year. There is also the argument that we were are going to sell our key players and will need to rebuild the team, in which case it may be better to give the money to a new guy rather than give it to Harry who will likely leave after one year.
Maybe in our position we need someone with a bit more tactical flexibility rather than someone who in effect shrugs his shoulders and literally says 'we couldn't have done any more' when we were so close to third and had it well within our own hands. We were unlucky with bad calls, deflected goals and gifts for other teams around us but at the end of the day Harry felt that even from the position we were in that 4th was good enough. Someone like Martinez, who absolutely refused to believe that Wigan were going to get relegated, and worked his gonad*s off to find a new system to get results to improve, while having the absolute confidence in the club to say 'we are playing too well to get relegated' sounds like the kind of mentality we would need to over-perform ourselves, rather than accept the slide from certain 3rd place to scraping into 4th on the last day. Martinez wouldn't be perfect, and it would be a risk to sack someone who has gotten us 4th, 5th and 4th, but in terms of psychology of the club, giving us a new vision and renewing our sense of purpose and vigour, it may be best to hear someone else. I fear that otherwise we may suffer what teams that finish 3rd in the football league and then fail in the play offs go through, where they are so close to something they worked for so long to acheive and then can't shake the dissapointment. The confidence could take a while to return unless we have someone else at the head of the ship.
At the end of the day, whatever happens it's going to be between us, Arsenal, Liverpool, Saudi Sportswashing Machine and potentially Everton next season for 4th. Arsenal and Liverpool especially will spend money and we need to keep up with them. Man United, City and Chelsea will spend far beyond what we are capable of and have squads that we won't be able to get near unfortunately. So we need to look at our squad and see if:
Goalkeepers: Friedel, Cudicini
Defenders: Walker, Naughton, Caulker, Kaboul, Dawson, Assou-Ekotto
Midfield: Lennon, Sandro, Huddlestone, Parker
Forwards: Van Der Vaart.
...can be improved to compete with our closest competitors. I've put the worst case scenario there of selling Bale and Modric but on the plus side it will give us more money to spend to actually rebuild. Is Harry the best guy to do this or would someone like Rodgers or Martinez be better served going for it? That squad needs a centre back, a back up left back, a squad right winger, a central midfielder, 2 left sided options, and 3 forwards to have 2 good players in each position and therefore giving us enough cover to compete for the top 4. That's 9 players. If we sell Modric, Bale, Defoe, Dos Santos, Krancjar, Pienaar, Rose, and release Saha and Nelsen we should have the best part of ?ú100 million to spend and rebuilding. That's well over ?ú10 million per player that we need. Some may cost ?ú15M, some may cost ?ú5M, but that should be roughly enough to do it.
Part of me says Harry will be the right man to acclimatise all the new players we need to implement into the squad as quickly as possible, but another part says a new younger manager with a defined system would be better served taking that money and getting the exact players he needs to make it work. Maybe AVB joining Spurs would be a good match. Two entities that have suffered massive dissapointments at the hands of Chelsea, both have been knocked down and their reputations have suffered. Both have a point to prove.
Leeds Spur
Banned
Leeds Spur
Banned
Yes - in the Allianz Arena
And why is he congratulaing them? They fudged us by nicking our 4th place and tried to unsettle one of our best players and will mock us for a decade after this season.
This is very bizarre indeed. I have never seen Wenger shaking manc hands or Fergie gooner ones.
This is very bizarre indeed. I have never seen Wenger shaking manc hands or Fergie gooner ones.
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superspurs
Justin Edinburgh
Oh Harry ffs.
Leeds Spur
Banned
What do you expect?
southstand1882
Mitchell Thomas
fudging hell. There are some serious bell end posts in here now.
He is not CONGRATULATING them
He is doing what most players and managers do when faced with screaming simpletons at a football match
He is shaking hands which have been forced into his path
fudge me. Grow up you fudging ball bags
I've seen losing semi finalist players forced to shake hands with opposing fans (often their fiercest rival fans) as they take the long walk up to collect their commiseration medals
He is not CONGRATULATING them
He is doing what most players and managers do when faced with screaming simpletons at a football match
He is shaking hands which have been forced into his path
fudge me. Grow up you fudging ball bags
I've seen losing semi finalist players forced to shake hands with opposing fans (often their fiercest rival fans) as they take the long walk up to collect their commiseration medals
tynesidespur
Terry Yorath
He looks pretty downbeat to me. I would probably have taken a swing for those smug ****s mind.