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Harry Redknapp: The Aftermath

Would you keep Arry after the Season?

  • Yes - He's done well and should be given at least one more season to consolidate our team

    Votes: 25 53.2%
  • No - he's peaked and would hold us back.

    Votes: 22 46.8%

  • Total voters
    47
i chose no, but if the words were changed to "should we look for a better replacement for harry?" i think it would've looked a lot different. Fair play to him, he's gotten us 4th, 5th, 4th, (albeit with an extremely talented first 11).

i wouldn't be quick to scoff at the idea of bringing in a more tactical manager, a la AVB, Rodgers, etc. Think it could take us that next step.
 
So you want to press me but dont really have a view yourself? :twisted:

If pushed I would say that no, I dont think Harry can build a dynasty.

I'm not convinced he can truly fullfill the potential at the club in the short term, despite being a "short term" manager by his nature.

You may well be right. I'm in favor of keeping him until someone considerably better and proven to be so is available and willing to come.

In the way that Chelsea upgraded on Ranieri when it appeared that he wouldn't be able to take them to the title , if Mourhino suddenly declared a lifetimes dream of living down Bruce Grove I'd have to say yes . Let's upgrade.
 
I've no idea, I think very few recent managers can, aside from Ferguson, Wenger and Mourhino. Mancicni possibly could but we'll have to wait and see on that one. Did Brian Clough leave a Dynasty at Notts Forest??

I'd exclude Mourinho from that. He'll never stay anywhere long enough.
 
Barcelona and Guardiola disagree

I already mentioned Pep earlier on. He renews his contract well before the business end of the season each time, so it's not this 'we'll see how he does this year' type stuff we are seeing supported here. Like Harry could get us 5th, and not have been the right man, or 4th, and have been the right man. Or maybe he has us title challenging again in February so we decide to tie him down to a long contract only for our form to tail off again in the business end of the season because we had played all the tough teams at home and all the easier teams away?

Why risk it? The only argument the other way seems to be that we are tied to him...but that's kind of the point. What I'm saying is that if he is the right man, we would want to be tied to him, and him being the right man or not isn't going to change this summer or next because he will be the same person, with the same managerial traits. If we finish 6th next year but we chose him as the right man we wouldn't then suddenly want to let him go. Only really if he lead us to an 8th or below finish where performances weren't great would I say that should be the case, but that's not likely to happen. If we are tied to him it's a good thing, he isn't suddenly going to be the wrong man a year after being the right one, he will be the same person.

But what people are saying is that treading water as a club and imposing a transitional season upon ourselves where we aren't all pulling in the same direction is a good thing? I'm not part of the 'Harry is GHod phalanx' (if such a thing exists), all I'm saying is that if the club decides he is the right man, he should be backed. If the club decide that Martinez is the man to take us forward, then we thank Harry for his hard work, send him on his way and bloody well back Martinez. Half measures have never worked in football.

The word 'dynasty' I just used wasn't really my main point. But let's say he has us finishing top 6 for the next 3 years. That would be 6 consecutive seasons of top 6 finishes. Absolutely remarkable and I'd consider that a fudging good achievement. Anyone that doesn't would need to realise where we were to where we have come from. From mid-table mediocrity to top of the table consistency. That would be pretty good, and I think he is capable of getting that for us. He's one of the longest serving managers in the league, only behind Fergie, Wenger and Moyes if I'm not mistaken. He's as right for us as anyone I've ever seen.

I would actually really like to see what Rodgers or Martinez or AVB could do with us, but I don't think any of them could do definitively better than what I believe Harry is capable of. I believe we'd be top 6 every year under him at least. Better would be top 4 every year, and I'm not sure there's a manager out there that would definitely achieve it, Mourinho aside.
 
And yet Mourinho still had a lot of question marks hanging over him (yes, he had remarkable success with Porto, but there was no guarantee it would translate to the big leagues)

As Rossi is pointing out in the Dalgish thread, everyone has to start somewhere. Im more and more convinced we need to find the next Wenger, than an established manager.
 
And yet Mourinho still had a lot of question marks hanging over him (yes, he had remarkable success with Porto, but there was no guarantee it would translate to the big leagues)

As Rossi is pointing out in the Dalgish thread, everyone has to start somewhere. Im more and more convinced we need to find the next Wenger, than an established manager.

That is a fair point, I guess personally I'm just very wary of change at the club having witnessed some truly awful managers at Spurs over the years. I also think that Harry has done a reasonable job given the squad he inherited, note that I said reasonable not brilliant:D
 
I'd exclude Mourinho from that. He'll never stay anywhere long enough.

Whatever anyone says, Mourinho is incredible. Everywhere he goes he wins. I know he goes to places where gets 60-70-80 million war chests, but he proved his pedigree with Porto and since then has (IMO) built a brilliant career for himself based on knowing what he WON'T work with.

As we sit right now I think it's dreaming, but I do think if we had managed to do more than flirt and smile at each other like we have done, then he would be the last chance we will ever have to see a scene like City had on Sunday in our 36,000 seat stadium; that is a dream I sadly think will now remain unfulfilled. Still, at least I saw us lift the UEFA Cup on that pitch...
 
I already mentioned Pep earlier on. He renews his contract well before the business end of the season each time, so it's not this 'we'll see how he does this year' type stuff we are seeing supported here. Like Harry could get us 5th, and not have been the right man, or 4th, and have been the right man. Or maybe he has us title challenging again in February so we decide to tie him down to a long contract only for our form to tail off again in the business end of the season because we had played all the tough teams at home and all the easier teams away?

Why risk it? The only argument the other way seems to be that we are tied to him...but that's kind of the point. What I'm saying is that if he is the right man, we would want to be tied to him, and him being the right man or not isn't going to change this summer or next because he will be the same person, with the same managerial traits. If we finish 6th next year but we chose him as the right man we wouldn't then suddenly want to let him go. Only really if he lead us to an 8th or below finish where performances weren't great would I say that should be the case, but that's not likely to happen. If we are tied to him it's a good thing, he isn't suddenly going to be the wrong man a year after being the right one, he will be the same person.

But what people are saying is that treading water as a club and imposing a transitional season upon ourselves where we aren't all pulling in the same direction is a good thing? I'm not part of the 'Harry is GHod phalanx' (if such a thing exists), all I'm saying is that if the club decides he is the right man, he should be backed. If the club decide that Martinez is the man to take us forward, then we thank Harry for his hard work, send him on his way and bloody well back Martinez. Half measures have never worked in football.

The word 'dynasty' I just used wasn't really my main point. But let's say he has us finishing top 6 for the next 3 years. That would be 6 consecutive seasons of top 6 finishes. Absolutely remarkable and I'd consider that a fudging good achievement. Anyone that doesn't would need to realise where we were to where we have come from. From mid-table mediocrity to top of the table consistency. That would be pretty good, and I think he is capable of getting that for us. He's one of the longest serving managers in the league, only behind Fergie, Wenger and Moyes if I'm not mistaken. He's as right for us as anyone I've ever seen.

I would actually really like to see what Rodgers or Martinez or AVB could do with us, but I don't think any of them could do definitively better than what I believe Harry is capable of. I believe we'd be top 6 every year under him at least. Better would be top 4 every year, and I'm not sure there's a manager out there that would definitely achieve it, Mourinho aside.

I agree with every word of that.

I wonder how easy people on here would find their jobs if their boss refused to support them and all of their staff and colleagues were gossiping about them being on their way out.
 
And yet Mourinho still had a lot of question marks hanging over him (yes, he had remarkable success with Porto, but there was no guarantee it would translate to the big leagues)

As Rossi is pointing out in the Dalgish thread, everyone has to start somewhere. Im more and more convinced we need to find the next Wenger, than an established manager.

Exactly, but from that what I think you're saying is that yes Harry would get us top 6 consistency, but you'd rather let him go and risk a younger manager, in the offchance that we find the next Wenger, so that in 10 years, we can say we had a manager at the club who had been here for 10 years?

Harry has already been here almost 4, if we give him a new contract there's a good chance he would be here for 7. By that point, providing he is successful (and I don't see why he wouldn't be, relatively speaking) he would have the reputation at our club and a job for life, so he could stay until he retired. Therefore he would probably make ten years. I can see Harry achieving that, definitely.

I'm really trying to see if I read you wrong, but I don't see what 'finding the next Wenger' means otherwise? That we find someone who will stick at our club for a long time (with England gone, we have that with Harry because he won't get a job bigger than us), or is it the fact that we take a younger, more unproven manager and make him successful. In which case again, why take the risk? We already have someone that has shown himself to deliver on the targets we would want to achieve.
 
As Rossi is pointing out in the Dalgish thread, everyone has to start somewhere. Im more and more convinced we need to find the next Wenger, than an established manager.

I think that every club would love to find the next Wenger and most of them have been looking for one since the late nineties. The only problem is that there aren't many around and part of his success is down to the support he has received from the Arsenal board.
 
Whatever anyone says, Mourinho is incredible. Everywhere he goes he wins. I know he goes to places where gets 60-70-80 million war chests, but he proved his pedigree with Porto and since then has (IMO) built a brilliant career for himself based on knowing what he WON'T work with.

As we sit right now I think it's dreaming, but I do think if we had managed to do more than flirt and smile at each other like we have done, then he would be the last chance we will ever have to see a scene like City had on Sunday in our 36,000 seat stadium; that is a dream I sadly think will now remain unfulfilled. Still, at least I saw us lift the UEFA Cup on that pitch...

Sometimes, reading your posts is like me having a ghost writer.:D
 
I already mentioned Pep earlier on. He renews his contract well before the business end of the season each time, so it's not this 'we'll see how he does this year' type stuff we are seeing supported here.

Actually in effect its no different. Messi, going into any season, knows it could be Guardiolas last. Despite their wild success, he starts the year not knowing if he will have the same manager next season.

And yet he, the Barca squad, Guardiola and the Barcelon hierachy are perfectly comfortable with it - it hasnt hindered them has it?

So why the absolute belief it would be an issue even worthy of mention for us?

Like Harry could get us 5th, and not have been the right man, or 4th, and have been the right man. Or maybe he has us title challenging again in February so we decide to tie him down to a long contract only for our form to tail off again in the business end of the season because we had played all the tough teams at home and all the easier teams away?

Why risk it? The only argument the other way seems to be that we are tied to him...but that's kind of the point. What I'm saying is that if he is the right man, we would want to be tied to him, and him being the right man or not isn't going to change this summer or next because he will be the same person, with the same managerial traits. If we finish 6th next year but we chose him as the right man we wouldn't then suddenly want to let him go. Only really if he lead us to an 8th or below finish where performances weren't great would I say that should be the case, but that's not likely to happen. If we are tied to him it's a good thing, he isn't suddenly going to be the wrong man a year after being the right one, he will be the same person.


Perhaps the view is simply that he is the right man "for now". Not that wild and fanciful an idea. He is doing a solid job, no arguments there, but he appears to be failing to push on from here.

Right now I dont think there is anyone available to succeed him who looks like doing a better job (that is attainable), but what about next season?

Perhaps Ancelotti will be seen as on the market, and someone to take us up a level. Perhaps we are closely monitoring Rodgers/Lambert to see if they can develop again this season or if they are just a flash in the pan?

Its very possible Redknapp is great at this point, but doesnt feature in our long term planning.

But what people are saying is that treading water as a club and imposing a transitional season upon ourselves where we aren't all pulling in the same direction is a good thing? I'm not part of the 'Harry is GHod phalanx' (if such a thing exists), all I'm saying is that if the club decides he is the right man, he should be backed. If the club decide that Martinez is the man to take us forward, then we thank Harry for his hard work, send him on his way and bloody well back Martinez. Half measures have never worked in football.

The idea of treading water and transition is imposed by you, no one else. Harry with a 3 year contract is no different to Harry with a 1 year contract in my view. The latter doesnt imply he will stay any longer, the former doesnt imply he will stay only a year. Transition will come when we change manager, when that comes no one knows - regardless of contract situations.

The word 'dynasty' I just used wasn't really my main point. But let's say he has us finishing top 6 for the next 3 years. That would be 6 consecutive seasons of top 6 finishes. Absolutely remarkable and I'd consider that a fudging good achievement. Anyone that doesn't would need to realise where we were to where we have come from. From mid-table mediocrity to top of the table consistency. That would be pretty good, and I think he is capable of getting that for us. He's one of the longest serving managers in the league, only behind Fergie, Wenger and Moyes if I'm not mistaken. He's as right for us as anyone I've ever seen.

Dynasty, for me, conjures ideas of a lasting impact on the club. I dont doubt 6 top 6 (incl top 4) finishes would be a superb achievement for us, but that doesnt imply a foundation/lasting impact left behind by him. Look at his Pompey dynasty/legacy, it unravelled in no time at all. I also reject the idea we should always remember where we were. It implies thats (midtable) where we should be (as opposed to successful), and in my view thats flat out wrong.

I would actually really like to see what Rodgers or Martinez or AVB could do with us, but I don't think any of them could do definitively better than what I believe Harry is capable of. I believe we'd be top 6 every year under him at least. Better would be top 4 every year, and I'm not sure there's a manager out there that would definitely achieve it, Mourinho aside.

Kind of a two-fold point.

On one hand, can Harry consistently reach what Harry is capable of? He has shown himself to take an eye off the ball at times, or be slow to react to issues to keep us on top of our game.

On the other, why couldnt these managers do better than Redknapp? Honestly?

Redknapp was basically a well known nobody when we gave him his chance. His record was average at best and his reputation that of a old geezer to get teams out of trouble. His achievement with us was (with 99% Im sure) completely unexpected. In 30 years of management no one saw this kind of potential in him, else he would have had the opportunity before Spurs. (and indeed, I suspect we took him based on his "get teams out of trouble" reputation for obvious reasons, not for greater aspiration)

Rodgers, Lambert? They havent had the chance yet, but have shown real ability IMO - why couldnt they do as good a job (or better) than Harry?
 
That is a fair point, I guess personally I'm just very wary of change at the club having witnessed some truly awful managers at Spurs over the years. I also think that Harry has done a reasonable job given the squad he inherited, note that I said reasonable not brilliant:D

That phrase sums up my nagging doubts with Harry. Despite his successes, there is that idea that it could have been EVEN BETTER.

Spurs fans are a confusing bunch, we are naturally pessimistic and wary having had so many black days and flase dawns - and yet also (at the same time!) an optimistic bunch, always looking for the best in a situation!

I dont know another group of fans (or indeed another club) that seems to collectively brick itself at the sight of success, because we assume for some reason it will all fall to ruin and be a disaster!
 
Exactly, but from that what I think you're saying is that yes Harry would get us top 6 consistency, but you'd rather let him go and risk a younger manager, in the offchance that we find the next Wenger, so that in 10 years, we can say we had a manager at the club who had been here for 10 years?

Im saying I would like to see us bring in a young manager who we believe in who can turn into one of the best there is (ideally!). Like Arsenal did with Wenger. They gave him a chance, and he has repayed that ten fold. Instead of going for tried and tested managers (who all ultimately fail at the level we can attract) I would like the possibility of a manager who can excel.

Im not saying sack Harry now, but I am saying thats the direction Id like the club to take.

Harry has already been here almost 4, if we give him a new contract there's a good chance he would be here for 7. By that point, providing he is successful (and I don't see why he wouldn't be, relatively speaking) he would have the reputation at our club and a job for life, so he could stay until he retired. Therefore he would probably make ten years. I can see Harry achieving that, definitely.

As Ive (hopefully) explained, its not about the 10 years. Though that is a bonus. Its about the continued success and development. Redknapp IMO will keep us top 6, and thats it. We wont develop, despite the obvious potential at the club to make climbs like Arsenal did when Wenger joined.

They were poised to step up a level, and gave the job to the man to make that happen. We are, IMO, similarly positioned, but Harry isnt one to exceed what he already has achieved.

I'm really trying to see if I read you wrong, but I don't see what 'finding the next Wenger' means otherwise? That we find someone who will stick at our club for a long time (with England gone, we have that with Harry because he won't get a job bigger than us), or is it the fact that we take a younger, more unproven manager and make him successful. In which case again, why take the risk? We already have someone that has shown himself to deliver on the targets we would want to achieve.

Broadly, perhaps. I imagine Levy has greater plans though, do you think Harry can deliver those?
 
Rodgers, Lambert? They havent had the chance yet, but have shown real ability IMO - why couldnt they do as good a job (or better) than Harry?

Maybe they could but I would guess that their chances of doing better than Harry are very slim and does either of them have the track record to make it worth taking the gamble of sacking a successful manager and replacing them with someone with one years track record in top flight management?
 
Sometimes, reading your posts is like me having a ghost writer.:D

Trust me, when you were writing about the bad old days/general thrills = not actually being a taco, I felt the same...at least I don't "think" I was a taco LOL!!! It is VERY hard to describe just how wonderful it was to take the North Bank year after year...
 
Maybe they could but I would guess that their chances of doing better than Harry are very slim and does either of them have the track record to make it worth taking the gamble of sacking a successful manager and replacing them with someone with one years track record in top flight management?

Im not suggesting we sack Redknapp.

What does track record have to do with anything? I could be the best sprinter there is, until Ive had a chance to prove it I have no track record (pun intended) yet it doesnt change the fact Im quicker than sonic the hedgehog.

(Im not, Im a terrible runner, but its only an illustration :D )

Look past the record and look at abilities - what are you looking for in a manager? If someone has the skills you want why worry about also having an extensive record?
 
Im not suggesting we sack Redknapp.

What does track record have to do with anything? I could be the best sprinter there is, until Ive had a chance to prove it I have no track record (pun intended) yet it doesnt change the fact Im quicker than sonic the hedgehog.

(Im not, Im a terrible runner, but its only an illustration :D )

Look past the record and look at abilities - what are you looking for in a manager? If someone has the skills you want why worry about also having an extensive record?

I'd rather a manager did their learning somewhere else. Every manager goes through rough patches and the good ones survive them and come out stronger. I would rather appoint a manager who has been through that somewhere else and survived. That way we know what we are getting and they are likely to be a better manager as a result.

Rodgers and Lambert have had great seasons but chances are their clubs will stall a bit next season and not do as well. Appointing a manager after one good season is a bit like paying top price for a player at thte top if their form (Bentley would be a good example). When you at the top of your abilities there is only one place that you can go.
 
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