Harry Redknapp: The Aftermath

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

They have managed better than their peers at every level below, and better than many supposed bigger clubs/more experienced managers at this top level, on a shoe string, and in the case of Rodgers particularly in some style.

What more need they do to prove themselves? A similar finish next season? 3 years at Aston Villa before they are worthy?

They may need to refine their skills, but its obvious (I think) they have a tremendous amount going for them.

 

[milo]

They have managed better than their peers at every level below, and better than many supposed bigger clubs/more experienced managers at this top level, on a shoe string, and in the case of Rodgers particularly in some style.

What more need they do to prove themselves? A similar finish next season? 3 years at Aston Villa before they are worthy?

They may need to refine their skills, but its obvious (I think) they have a tremendous amount going for them.

Matching or beating this years league positions next season would be an excellent achievement and suggest that they are read. A good stint at Villa or a similar mid-table team would also be a good test and suggest that they are more than a flash in the pan.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

And also be enough for us to miss out on them completely

 

[milo]

And also be enough for us to miss out on them completely

Yep but that is the risk that you take.

If you appoint promising managers because you are worried about missing out on them in the future you'd change managers three times a season.

Besides what is the chances that you appoint Rodgers and Lambert turns out to be the real deal? It's the supermarket check out situation, whichever one you pick the other moves faster.

 

[Raziel]

My view, you spend 10 bucks on a lottery ticket, you don't win, hey no big deal.

If a lottery ticket was 10K, would you buy? all the reasons of why you would buy at 10 are still true (someone else might get that ticket)

Issue with Martinez/Rodgers/all unproven managers is the chance exists that they are the real deal, but it's too expensive a risk. Hence when you do see those type of appointments, it's typically only an internal promotion where people have had a working chance to show their skill at that club.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Yep but that is the risk that you take.

If you appoint promising managers because you are worried about missing out on them in the future you'd change managers three times a season.

Besides what is the chances that you appoint Rodgers and Lambert turns out to be the real deal? It's the supermarket check out situation, whichever one you pick the other moves faster.

But its not a random supermarket behaviour, its a human decision. You see someone with the attributes you desire, you give them a chance and all the support to make them a success (as it reflects on both of you). Its nothing to do with chasing the next fancy, its about looking at the man and not the CV

 

[ArcspacE]

its about looking at the man and not the CV

Does this 'logic' apply to AVB or - are his Porto trophies considered a disadvantage in this particular situation?

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

My view, you spend 10 bucks on a lottery ticket, you don't win, hey no big deal.

If a lottery ticket was 10K, would you buy? all the reasons of why you would buy at 10 are still true (someone else might get that ticket)

Issue with Martinez/Rodgers/all unproven managers is the chance exists that they are the real deal, but it's too expensive a risk. Hence when you do see those type of appointments, it's typically only an internal promotion where people have had a working chance to show their skill at that club.

Ridiculous analogy.

The issue with proven managers is that their success often comes under specific circumstance, unless you are talking the very top managers (and at Spurs we arent) there is no guarantee their success is replicable at other clubs. Or you get the managers that are successfull, but only to a point. Ranieri, Benitez spring to mind - you know they will do a good job but come with faults and a 'glass ceiling'

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Does this 'logic' apply to AVB or - are his Porto trophies considered a disadvantage in this particular situation?

Whoever said to consider trophies a disadvantage? My point is to simply look past CV as the only criteria and at the actual manager and his attributes instead.

There is a lot about AVB that appeals, as Ive said many times - despite your preference to ignore for some preconception you attribute to me.

 

[Raziel]

Ridiculous analogy.

It's done to make a point, no one seems to want to acknowledge that appointing ANY manager at a club the size of Tottenham/Pool/etc. is potentially a 100M-200M decision, that's a lot of fudging risk, and the super casual "well why not take a chance, he could be the real deal" just ignores that completely.

And when you look at the requirements for job experience, it just looks worse

- Ever managed a top 4 side?
- Ever competed in Europe?
- Ever won a trophy?
- Ever bought a single player over 10M?
- Ever managed a players like VDV/Ade/Modric
- Ever dealt with a fan atmosphere of overblown expectations?

That's why experienced managers, even those with flaws get jobs before Martinez/Rodgers, when someone's resume ticks none, or one of those boxes, it begins to look like (as the person making the hiring decision, hope is your strategy)

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

No it doesnt. It simply takes a little more insight than looking for arbritary markers.

 

[Raziel]

No it doesnt. It simply takes a little more insight than looking for arbritary markers.

Just for fun Nayim, do a job description for Tottenham manager role, and what are the criteria for success, qualifications and experience we are looking for.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Why bother? Arent we all just going round in circles?

Clearly you have strong feelings on credentials, I have strong feelings on attributes instead

 

[southstand1882]

Why bother? Arent we all just going round in circles?

Clearly you have strong feelings on credentials, I have strong feelings on attributes instead

That is so deep

 

[Skinhead in a Suit]

- He's the best English manager currently in the game
- He's done better than anyone since David Pleat ffs
- He's got us 2 4th place finishes without spending huge amounts of cash
- Didn't he steer us to CL quarter-final last year? Been a while since that's happened!
- We played the best football I've ever seen us play for the first half of the season (been a fan for 30+ years)
- He's great in interviews and press conferences (personal opinion).
- His daughter-in-law is smokin' hot (fact)

Would you really trade the above for another Santini / Ramos because they have a sexier name?

 

[Kingdawson]

- He's the best English manager currently in the game
- He's done better than anyone since David Pleat ffs
- He's got us 2 4th place finishes without spending huge amounts of cash
- Didn't he steer us to CL quarter-final last year? Been a while since that's happened!
- We played the best football I've ever seen us play for the first half of the season (been a fan for 30+ years)
- He's great in interviews and press conferences (personal opinion).
- His daughter-in-law is smokin' hot (fact)

Would you really trade the above for another Santini / Ramos because they have a sexier name?

* Yes but that's more to do with his competition (or lack of).
* Agreed
* Agreed
* He did
* Agreed
* HELL NO. His interviews and press conferences are embarrsing on himself and the club in general.
* She's ok. A 6.5 out of 10 (maybe a 7 if we're talking about how she looked when Eternal were about)

 

[Jordinho]

Redknapp gets the results our current squad merits, there's only a handful of people that would do much better. Every single match won't be perfect, so there's always the whatifs.

Levy is the one building a dynasty, through long term planning and investment. Training ground, stadium, academy, all things that has taken a lot of effort and money since ENIC took over and we're just starting to reap the rewards. Having worked with several managers/DoFs, all with different approaches, he has learnt from them all (sometimes the hard way) and slowly, but steadily, improved us as a club. Levy will always look at younger players with resale value first and if we can't find any we go with the stop gaps. No manager will ever get a free reign to build a squad while he's in charge.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Im saying I would like to see us bring in a young manager who we believe in who can turn into one of the best there is (ideally!). Like Arsenal did with Wenger. They gave him a chance, and he has repayed that ten fold. Instead of going for tried and tested managers (who all ultimately fail at the level we can attract) I would like the possibility of a manager who can excel.

Im not saying sack Harry now, but I am saying thats the direction Id like the club to take.



As Ive (hopefully) explained, its not about the 10 years. Though that is a bonus. Its about the continued success and development. Redknapp IMO will keep us top 6, and thats it. We wont develop, despite the obvious potential at the club to make climbs like Arsenal did when Wenger joined.

They were poised to step up a level, and gave the job to the man to make that happen. We are, IMO, similarly positioned, but Harry isnt one to exceed what he already has achieved.



Broadly, perhaps. I imagine Levy has greater plans though, do you think Harry can deliver those?

I don't think the potential is there for anyone to turn us into one of the best, not until we get a new stadium. I don't think there is anyone out there that will turn us into consistent top 4 finishers until we get a new stadium, and since I believe Harry will get us consistent top 6, that's something to stick with. I don't see that we are 'poised to step up', not consistently season on season, again until we get a new stadium. We may get lucky some years and finish top 3, but Man United, Emirates Marketing Project and Chelsea will be incredibly hard to over-take as long as we have our current wage structure. No manager is going to magically make it happen that we finish above them. I don't think Levy has any unrealistic plans to finish any higher consistency than the above 3 clubs right now, and even to finish above Arsenal consistently will be a tough ask. Until we get a new stadium to do it consistently will be extremely difficult. So yes, I think Harry can achieve it.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Fundamentally I disagree, its a defeatist attitude.

Yes, absolutely, the stadium makes a tremendous difference. But its not the only way to succeed.

Buying players to suit a system gets more from the team as a whole, it need not be a squad of superstars.

Building a core playing style, and buying to suit it is good management. Keeping an eye on player succession, and buying players of potential (and realising that potential) is great management.

We might be poor by comparison to City/Utd/Chelsea, but we arent a poor club. We can afford quality players, both fees and wages, and with a top manager can certainly compete.

We werent far from competing for the title this season. We ran out of steam, but certainly showed the quality to compete in those positions.

We need to be smart, not rich.

 

[ArcspacE]

I don't think the potential is there for anyone to turn us into one of the best, not until we get a new stadium. I don't think there is anyone out there that will turn us into consistent top 4 finishers until we get a new stadium, and since I believe Harry will get us consistent top 6, that's something to stick with. I don't see that we are 'poised to step up', not consistently season on season, again until we get a new stadium. We may get lucky some years and finish top 3, but Man United, Emirates Marketing Project and Chelsea will be incredibly hard to over-take as long as we have our current wage structure. No manager is going to magically make it happen that we finish above them. I don't think Levy has any unrealistic plans to finish any higher consistency than the above 3 clubs right now, and even to finish above Arsenal consistently will be a tough ask. Until we get a new stadium to do it consistently will be extremely difficult. So yes, I think Harry can achieve it.

Disagree completely

Reminds me of a semi-abusive relationship of living in fear and always thinking 'there wouldn't be anyone for me if I leave her now'

We have some extremely talented players in our squad as much as some doom-mongers like to bang otherwise. With a few intelligent additions/imrpovements in the summer we can really push on the next level and establish some consistency. As much as our financial muscle is dwarfed in comparison to other PL clubs - results are decided on the field of play and we have proven to able to compete with anyone lately.

To say Arry is the absolute ceiling of a manager for us the moment and he is extracting the absolute optimal performance from the squad is not true in the slightest, imv - i.e. rubbish, sorry