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Harry Redknapp: The Aftermath

Would you keep Arry after the Season?

  • Yes - He's done well and should be given at least one more season to consolidate our team

    Votes: 25 53.2%
  • No - he's peaked and would hold us back.

    Votes: 22 46.8%

  • Total voters
    47
Mick - i think you have the habit of dismissing peoples opinions all to easily. people have a right to form their own opinions based on what they see going on and at the same time use their opinions as to what they think is happening/should happen - for example i think Redknapp didn't know what to do against Villa (in regards to change) so opted to do nothing - that's an opinion based on what i saw during the game and i presume is the kind of thing you'd consider not based on fact or without foundation

it's also my opinion that Redknapp lost focus on the Spurs job whilst the England job 'was on the cards' - now again this is something not based on fact or foundation and is speculative - but i hold that opinion nonetheless, should i not be free to discuss this or use this as reason as to why I THINK we should be considering whether he should take us on in to next season/the coming years ?

im not necessarily trying to discuss these particular points but more how people should be able to use their opinions - after all if we only discussed cold hard facts this place would be rather boring and everyone would pretty much be sharing the same opinions, no ?
 
For the sake of the moderators.
This post is clearly a post aimed at me (and or people with a similar POV) so I'd like to put my side of the argument.

I have always tried to put my points forward in a clear and simple manner, but have to deal with a sea of invective and speculative posts that are based almost solely on opinions without foundation. I have always been prepared to do so, and will continue to this in future.

Having concerns about the club is one thing, but that only stands when there are sufficient symptoms to base a concern around. This board has a large number of posters who continually fabricate symptoms like hypochondriacs in an effort to convince doctors to amputate. Some posters also have a tendancy towards Munchausens syndrome

What you see as policing the board, is simply people who are offended by the lies, innuendo and rubbish that people attempt to serve up as fact, take pirates 15 symptoms as an example of the lengths people will go to to fabricate evidence. It might convince him, but it doesn't to people with a more reasonable and calm perspective. Maybe your policy of deluging the board with an opinion on everything might also be seen as policing, stasi like in its insidious ubiquity.

I have my own opinions on what is driving down the quality of the board, and I would suggest that quantity of posts is no substitute for quality.

With the exception of his swipe at me, I could have written exactly the same sentiments.

Mick - you accuse me of "fabricating evidence". Please would you go through all 15 points I have made and show me exactly what evidence I have fabricated.
 
I cannot remember when Arc has abused Harry at all - maybe condemning some of his tactical decisions. But no abuse.
I'm sure he's called him a clown or mug, at the very least.

It's more the relentless (spamming) calling for his head which has been a larger contributer to the deterioration of this board's content (not just from Arc).
 
I'm sure he's called him a clown or mug, at the very least.

It's more the relentless (spamming) calling for his head which has been a larger contributer to the deterioration of this board's content (not just from Arc).

Wrong

Prehaps it's those BAE comments you're still unable to forgive me for
 
With the exception of his swipe at me, I could have written exactly the same sentiments.

Mick - you accuse me of "fabricating evidence". Please would you go through all 15 points I have made and show me exactly what evidence I have fabricated.

Because they are opinions. If I give you the big bad results point, it would be far too simplistic to let go without discussing the circumstances.
 
Because they are opinions. If I give you the big bad results point, it would be far too simplistic to let go without discussing the circumstances.

Aha, I see - so expressing my opinion is "fabricating evidence". You make a very serious charge - ie effectively calling me a liar for making up things - and then in the next mail say that they are opinions. When you express your opinions, you think they are fact. When others express theirs, they are "fabricating evidence".

I dont have to call you any names, you have been hoisted by your own petard.
 
Mick - i think you have the habit of dismissing peoples opinions all to easily. people have a right to form their own opinions based on what they see going on and at the same time use their opinions as to what they think is happening/should happen - for example i think Redknapp didn't know what to do against Villa (in regards to change) so opted to do nothing - that's an opinion based on what i saw during the game and i presume is the kind of thing you'd consider not based on fact or without foundation

it's also my opinion that Redknapp lost focus on the Spurs job whilst the England job 'was on the cards' - now again this is something not based on fact or foundation and is speculative - but i hold that opinion nonetheless, should i not be free to discuss this or use this as reason as to why I THINK we should be considering whether he should take us on in to next season/the coming years ?

im not necessarily trying to discuss these particular points but more how people should be able to use their opinions - after all if we only discussed cold hard facts this place would be rather boring and everyone would pretty much be sharing the same opinions, no ?

OK
lets discuss it.

What did you see in the Villa game that bought you to that opinion? Was it because he didn't panic and make changes for the sake of it? Is it because he didn't bring on an extra striker, and weaken us in an area that might have been exploited? Or was it because having seen the Saudi Sportswashing Machine result he figured that a pragmatic approach to we keep what we have, and don't over expose ourselves and lose that point is a better policy? Change for the sake of change isn't necessarily the best option, and in many cases can be detrimental to a side achieving what it is striving for. Defoe has come on several times recently and achieved nothing, perhaps he has been misfiring in practice and HR thought he would snatch at chances and waste opportunities. Perhaps Defoe has been having conscience pangs about 2 timing his girlfriend and HR though his mind wasn't on it.

Shall I keep going and get more and more ridiculous with my speculation, or shall we both accept that neither of us knows what goes on in his head? It has been a comment made on several occasions by people on here - Redknapp has no tactical awareness, he doesn't use his subs right, yada yada yada. I wonder if all the top managers make all of the right decisions all of the time, or whether all of their substitutions work, on every occasion?

How do you imagine he lost focus on the Spurs job? I'd be interested to hear how that happens to a football manager, because I would have thought that there would be sufficient real evidence, for the management of the club to raise concerns. I suggested (speculated) that the far more likely culprits were the players, at the prospect of losing their manager, a man who on countless occasions, and in countless interviews with players was lauded as a popular leader and man manager. The dynamics of team play are a significant factor in team performance. I have a firm belief that the largest part of the blame falls on the shoulders of the people who took to the field - not that I think there was any kind of deliberate policy, or lack of effort - but an almost unconscious change in attidude that manifested itself in the way that it did. You can imagine all the calls from the agents, as soon as HR was being beefed up in the press, to all their players, about how now was a good time to agitate for pay rises, transfers etc etc - why is this theory largely ignored? Because its easier to flog the same old horse?

Its all speculation, and all of these damning allegations and opinions all do nothing but ignore the most salient facts about "Look at what he has achieved!"

Why does this have to be dismissed in a sea of unsubstantiated rumours and opinions based on the flimsiest of evidence?

As I said to you before, you are far more level headed and resonable, its the dleuge monsters - as Polski has said, spamming the board, in tsunami post campaigns that is so frustrating.
 
Aha, I see - so expressing my opinion is "fabricating evidence". You make a very serious charge - ie effectively calling me a liar for making up things - and then in the next mail say that they are opinions. When you express your opinions, you think they are fact. When others express theirs, they are "fabricating evidence".

I dont have to call you any names, you have been hoisted by your own petard.

Posting an opinion as fact - makes it a fact does it?

Where are my opinions posted? - apart from rebutting yours, all I have done is to point out what the guy has achieved for the club, and that I believe all of the opinions expressed as facts are bunk.

You are now pretending that I have done something that I haven't and then tried,convicted and hung me for it.

Nice attitude to justice, you'd have been a hit in the French rebellion.
 
Posting an opinion as fact - makes it a fact does it?

Where are my opinions posted? - apart from rebutting yours, all I have done is to point out what the guy has achieved for the club, and that I believe all of the opinions expressed as facts are bunk.

You are now pretending that I have done something that I haven't and then tried,convicted and hung me for it.

Nice attitude to justice, you'd have been a hit in the French rebellion.

Did you or did you not accuse me of "fabricating the evidence".

You havent given one shred of evidence to back that statement up.
 
Did you or did you not accuse me of "fabricating the evidence".

You havent given one shred of evidence to back that statement up.

you keep posting opinions and thinking that they are stone cold facts, what more can I say?

(and its hoist by your own petard, if you want to be accurate. Far from being blown up with my own bomb, I would suggest that you are doing a good job of keeping the grenade and throwing the pins away.)
 
you keep posting opinions and thinking that they are stone cold facts, what more can I say?

(and its hoist by your own petard, if you want to be accurate. Far from being blown up with my own bomb, I would suggest that you are doing a good job of keeping the grenade and throwing the pins away.)

You keep banging on that other people give opinions yet all you do is state the facts. Ergo, you believe your opinions to be facts. And dismiss other peoples opinions with disdain

Furthermore, you havent answered my central question. Where have I "fabricated evidence"? .
 
You keep banging on that other people give opinions yet all you do is state the facts. Ergo, you believe your opinions to be facts. And dismiss other peoples opinions with disdain

Furthermore, you havent answered my central question. Where have I "fabricated evidence"? .

Oh well, I guess its safe to say that you are neither a policeman or a lawyer.

read back through my posts to you. Actually read them, and try to understand them. You will find all of the answers, I can't just keep repeating myself, because you will keep asking the same questions.

Do you want all these pins back, because when those grenades go off, you're going to be a mess.
 
Oh well, I guess its safe to say that you are neither a policeman or a lawyer.

read back through my posts to you. Actually read them, and try to understand them. You will find all of the answers, I can't just keep repeating myself, because you will keep asking the same questions.

Do you want all these pins back, because when those grenades go off, you're going to be a mess.

Again, you are just trying to obfuscate.

I am asking you a simple question. Where did I "fabricate the evidence". Your words not mine.

If you cant answer this directly, then you cant back up your very serious charge against me.
 
Its all speculation, and all of these damning allegations and opinions all do nothing but ignore the most salient facts about "Look at what he has achieved!"

Why does this have to be dismissed in a sea of unsubstantiated rumours and opinions based on the flimsiest of evidence?

As I said to you before, you are far more level headed and resonable, its the dleuge monsters - as Polski has said, spamming the board, in tsunami post campaigns that is so frustrating.

i think you are looking at in a totally different way to how i am, or how others are

being critical of certain aspects of what he has done (even if they are just opinions) does not equate to thinking he has not done well here.

thinking we should replace him based on opinion does not equate to thinking he has not done well here

and taking his record as the only piece of evidence does not mean that he will definitely carry it on in the future (that is as much opinion as anything else) or that he is faultless for anything bad that happens with our form (for example)


if we were appraising his time here then i think almost everyone will be in agreement (based on the facts) that it has been nothing short of a success - now some people will have the opinion that the success is great and which is all down to him whilst others will have the opinion that it was a success but could have been improved on or Harry was fortunate to walk in to a talented, yet under performing squad - now these are two valid opinions people may hold based on their take of the facts of what he/we have achieved - who is right ? it comes down to personal opinion.

what we have been discussing these past few weeks/months is what is our slip in form down to and whether Harry is the man to take us forward long term - and there are no facts to give a definitive answer, it all comes down to personal opinion based on what each individual poster has seen/taken from our slump and his overall time here, you cannot dismiss peoples opinions because they are the only thing in which to base the answer to those questions on - it isn't as simple as saying - "we have done well under HR these past 4 seasons so he is the man to lead us in to the next 2/3/4/5 years" - it's more a case of looking at ALL the positives and ALL the negatives and making a judgment based on where you think this will take us - my opinion based on all of this is that Harry has done well here and i truly am thankful for what he has achieved - however there are plenty of things about his time that i think points to him not being the right man for the long term job (i won't get in to each specific point because that isn't the point of what im trying to discuss here) and there are no amount of facts from his time here which can tell me that my opinion isn't valid.

similarly with regards to our recent slump - there are no facts to suggest what this is down to, all you can do is take in all information and make a judgment on where you think it went wrong - one poster thinks it's a natural blip but another thinks there is more to it - who's right ? how can you tell either person what they think is wrong ?
 
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Again, you are just trying to obfuscate.

I am asking you a simple question. Where did I "fabricate the evidence". Your words not mine.

If you cant answer this directly, then you cant back up your very serious charge against me.

Very serious?

Evidence is fact

Opinions are hot air

I don't doubt that your opinions, to you, are solid with concrete and steel foundations, and easily enough to hang Harry from the nearest yardarm. But they are not to me, as they are opinions, based on little or no evidence, or on your version of how someone should run a team, man manage people and conduct his life.

To give an example

Harry is a saggy faced **** (not saying you ever said it) is closer to being fact (despite the genitalia issue)
Than Harry is a lousy manager who has taken the club as far as it can go

When you try to use something like the second one to substantiate your argument - you are presenting opinions as facts. That would be fabricating evidence.

I can type slower if it helps......
 
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