Harry Redknapp: The Aftermath

[SpursLodge]

The thing I don't get is why not bring on Parker and Defoe, Ade never looked like doing much against Villa, they were too stubborn on the edge of the box so bring on our top goal scorer to have a few long range efforts, no harm in trying it.

Harry just doesn't seem to fancy him anymore, not sure what more you could ask for from a sub.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I think the way people tend to blame the manager for everything really needs to be looked at, as if football isn't a game with a million other variables that can all have an effect.

I think the concept of 'good manager' and 'bad manager' or 'this manager is a legend!' vs 'this manager has done us over and needs to get out of our club right now!' is far too simplistic. It's about the right man at the right time for the right club. You could debate which decision he could have made differently until the cows come home but it doesn't mean that if he took any other decision that the end result would have been better, the same or even worse.

You have someone like Avram Grant that can take Chelsea to the Champions League final - something Mourinho couldn't do - but take Portsmouth and West Ham to bottom of the league in successive seasons. It's all gonads. Football isn't a game where 'good managers' have some massive secret that 'bad managers' don't where they can garner success with a click of the fingers. I think guys like Paul Lambert come close because what he has done, largely with a sqaud that took him up from League 1 is absolutely phenominal. But there are many examples of smaller clubs overperforming because of a 'new' way of playing that potentially may get figured out. It may not, but let's see.

I just think that every single manager can make mistakes, or do things differently. At the time I was wondering why Defoe wasn't brought on for example, but I kind of rest my head and acknowledge that Harry probably made a considered decision because he knows a hell of a lot more about football than me. The idea of 'constructive criticism', as if we have anything to offer someone who has forgotten more about football than we will ever know, is ludicrous.

By all means fans can debate amoungst themselves about what tactics they would have chosen or what players they would have used - that's what this board is for. But it's the tone I can't stand. The way people go about it. The offering of 'constructive criticism' which has the smug tone that belittles the man with all the experience and knowledge, attacks him, and acts like they - this fan with absolutely no knowledge whatsoever in a professional sense - has the secret to success, which absolutely would have guarenteed a positive outcome, and the man with the knowledge and experience is an absolute dunce for not going that particular way.

As I said, I have no problem with fans debating what they would have done, but the immature tone in which people go about smugly giving off their opinions as if they are absolutely correct and that the manager in charge stupid for not taking it is absolutely nauseating. Every single manager could have made different decisions this season which could have positively or negatively changed the outcome - or made it stay exactly the same. That's obvious. But they are in the position to make those decisions because they get it right more often than not, and have the experience and knowledge to back it up. To talk as if one manager is good while another is bad when they all have their merits is pointless. We just need the right man for our club, with the competence to help us reach our realistic targets. We have one of those. By all means say what you would have done differently, but please for the love of GHod don't act like your decision would have been any more guarenteed to work than the one taken by the man in charge.

 

[billyiddo]

Chancer, can I ask you an honest question

Do you think Arry is ever accountable for anything in this club or responsbile to receive constructive criticism from fans, the board, etc.? (nothing to do with your corners post - just a general query)

i think what it comes down to is - several posters are tired of all the different people criticizing HR Redknapp for different things - they can't differentiate between different posters and from their perspective it looks as though it's one continual stream of abuse directed at the manager, one person says X about Redknapp another says Y about Rednapp so it looks as though everyone who is saying something bad is in agreement with all the things negative being said - also it looks to them as though no one appreciates any of the positives from his time here.

i think if these posters were talking one on one with each other face to face they'd quickly come to realize that that's not the case and be a little more understanding.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

I think the way people tend to blame the manager for everything really needs to be looked at, as if football isn't a game with a million other variables that can all have an effect.

I think the concept of 'good manager' and 'bad manager' or 'this manager is a legend!' vs 'this manager has done us over and needs to get out of our club right now!' is far too simplistic. It's about the right man at the right time for the right club. You could debate which decision he could have made differently until the cows come home but it doesn't mean that if he took any other decision that the end result would have been better, the same or even worse.

You have someone like Avram Grant that can take Chelsea to the Champions League final - something Mourinho couldn't do - but take Portsmouth and West Ham to bottom of the league in successive seasons. It's all gonads. Football isn't a game where 'good managers' have some massive secret that 'bad managers' don't where they can garner success with a click of the fingers. I think guys like Paul Lambert come close because what he has done, largely with a sqaud that took him up from League 1 is absolutely phenominal. But there are many examples of smaller clubs overperforming because of a 'new' way of playing that potentially may get figured out. It may not, but let's see.

I just think that every single manager can make mistakes, or do things differently. At the time I was wondering why Defoe wasn't brought on for example, but I kind of rest my head and acknowledge that Harry probably made a considered decision because he knows a hell of a lot more about football than me. The idea of 'constructive criticism', as if we have anything to offer someone who has forgotten more about football than we will ever know, is ludicrous.

By all means fans can debate amoungst themselves about what tactics they would have chosen or what players they would have used - that's what this board is for. But it's the tone I can't stand. The way people go about it. The offering of 'constructive criticism' which has the smug tone that belittles the man with all the experience and knowledge, attacks him, and acts like they - this fan with absolutely no knowledge whatsoever in a professional sense - has the secret to success, which absolutely would have guarenteed a positive outcome, and the man with the knowledge and experience is an absolute dunce for not going that particular way.

As I said, I have no problem with fans debating what they would have done, but the immature tone in which people go about smugly giving off their opinions as if they are absolutely correct and that the manager in charge stupid for not taking it is absolutely nauseating. Every single manager could have made different decisions this season which could have positively or negatively changed the outcome - or made it stay exactly the same. That's obvious. But they are in the position to make those decisions because they get it right more often than not, and have the experience and knowledge to back it up. To talk as if one manager is good while another is bad when they all have their merits is pointless. We just need the right man for our club, with the competence to help us reach our realistic targets. We have one of those. By all means say what you would have done differently, but please for the love of GHod don't act like your decision would have been any more guarenteed to work than the one taken by the man in charge.

Post of the year!!! =D>

 

[chancer]

Chancer, can I ask you an honest question

Do you think Arry is ever accountable for anything in this club or responsbile to recevie constructive criticism from fans, the board, etc.? (nothing to do with your corners post - just a general query)

Constructive criticism - absolutely yes. I will give you 4 specific examples:

1. I think Harry talks too much to the media
2. I share others' concerns about our lack of success at corners.
3. Whilst I don't mind Bale wandering around as much as others do, I would prefer a firmer insistence he does most of his work on the left
4. I am not happy with the roster of strikers at our disposal, although it's hard to say who's fault that is and I see no point in doing €14m punts on the likes of second-raters like Pav.

So yes, there's no way he's perfect, but in all honesty 90% of my defence of Harry isn't so much a defence of him as it is a reaction to the mindless and personalised abuse he gets and the truly macaronic, out-of-line criticism he gets on some things. For example, when people start saying he wants Chelsea to win the CL more than he wants us in it next season, I see red and will not accept such brainlessness.


Ed: Just to add, if Harry were fired in the morning for Martinez, I would say I think he's been terribly treated, but I wouldn't lie - I'd be excited by the prospect of Roberto.

 

[Rorschach]

I think the way people tend to blame the manager for everything really needs to be looked at, as if football isn't a game with a million other variables that can all have an effect.

I think the concept of 'good manager' and 'bad manager' or 'this manager is a legend!' vs 'this manager has done us over and needs to get out of our club right now!' is far too simplistic. It's about the right man at the right time for the right club. You could debate which decision he could have made differently until the cows come home but it doesn't mean that if he took any other decision that the end result would have been better, the same or even worse.

You have someone like Avram Grant that can take Chelsea to the Champions League final - something Mourinho couldn't do - but take Portsmouth and West Ham to bottom of the league in successive seasons. It's all gonads. Football isn't a game where 'good managers' have some massive secret that 'bad managers' don't where they can garner success with a click of the fingers. I think guys like Paul Lambert come close because what he has done, largely with a sqaud that took him up from League 1 is absolutely phenominal. But there are many examples of smaller clubs overperforming because of a 'new' way of playing that potentially may get figured out. It may not, but let's see.

I just think that every single manager can make mistakes, or do things differently. At the time I was wondering why Defoe wasn't brought on for example, but I kind of rest my head and acknowledge that Harry probably made a considered decision because he knows a hell of a lot more about football than me. The idea of 'constructive criticism', as if we have anything to offer someone who has forgotten more about football than we will ever know, is ludicrous.

By all means fans can debate amoungst themselves about what tactics they would have chosen or what players they would have used - that's what this board is for. But it's the tone I can't stand. The way people go about it. The offering of 'constructive criticism' which has the smug tone that belittles the man with all the experience and knowledge, attacks him, and acts like they - this fan with absolutely no knowledge whatsoever in a professional sense - has the secret to success, which absolutely would have guarenteed a positive outcome, and the man with the knowledge and experience is an absolute dunce for not going that particular way.

As I said, I have no problem with fans debating what they would have done, but the immature tone in which people go about smugly giving off their opinions as if they are absolutely correct and that the manager in charge stupid for not taking it is absolutely nauseating. Every single manager could have made different decisions this season which could have positively or negatively changed the outcome - or made it stay exactly the same. That's obvious. But they are in the position to make those decisions because they get it right more often than not, and have the experience and knowledge to back it up. To talk as if one manager is good while another is bad when they all have their merits is pointless. We just need the right man for our club, with the competence to help us reach our realistic targets. We have one of those. By all means say what you would have done differently, but please for the love of GHod don't act like your decision would have been any more guarenteed to work than the one taken by the man in charge.

This message board is for fans to discuss and express their opinions on everything Tottenham, including the manager. The nauseating thing is not the opinions that are posted for or against, it is the torrent of abuse from both sides that each opinion then generates. Frankly it is boring an makes reasoned discussion practially impossible.

 

[ArcspacE]

i think what it comes down to is - several posters are tired of all the different people criticizing HR Redknapp for different things - they can't differentiate between different posters and from their perspective it looks as though it's one continual stream of abuse directed at the manager, one person says X about Redknapp another says Y about Rednapp so it looks as though everyone who is saying something bad is in agreement with all the things negative being said - also it looks to them as though no one appreciates any of the positives from his time here.

i think if these posters were talking one on one with each other face to face they'd quickly come to realize that that's not the case and be a little more understanding.

That is only partly true though, I'm afraid. There is a selective few who appear to actively police this forum and track down any form of criticism or questions raised towards him (not referring to verbal abuse, insults and common thuggery, etc. - I mean resonable arguments born out of objective concern towards the club) and proceed to attack anyone who dares to question this apparent behemot of a manager we're all unappreciative of. fudging hell, mate - give me a break. This is a discussion board, if people are unable to tolerate different opinion to theirs without resorting to abuse then why bother with this medium - and that refers to both the pro and anti-camp.

Yes, the thread title is OTT but much like most threads on here there have been valid points raised as it evolved soto take it at face value becomes unfair towards most contributors.

There are numerous people who raise valid points on both sides and serve to enrich the general knowledge in this place although extreme bias and ignorance simply serves to drive the deteriorating overall quality down towards the levels of Arse Mania or similar cess pit.

This divide is killing the board at crucial point in the season - guaranteed 4th with a win and a CL qualification spot for the 2nd time in 3 years. You couldn't make it up.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Constructive criticism - absolutely yes. I will give you 4 specific examples:

1. I think Harry talks too much to the media
2. I share others' concerns about our lack of success at corners.
3. Whilst I don't mind Bale wandering around as much as others do, I would prefer a firmer insistence he does most of his work on the left
4. I am not happy with the roster of strikers at our disposal, although it's hard to say who's fault that is and I see no point in doing €14m punts on the likes of second-raters like Pav.

So yes, there's no way he's perfect, but in all honesty 90% of my defence of Harry isn't so much a defence of him as it is a reaction to the mindless and personalised abuse he gets and the truly macaronic, out-of-line criticism he gets on some things. For example, when people start saying he wants Chelsea to win the CL more than he wants us in it next season, I see red and will not accept such brainlessness.

Don't justify yourself mate. It's OBVIOUS that your posts are balanced and reasonable.

I agree with the above too, although point 4 doesn't bother me as much. Ade, VDV, Defoe and Saha. On paper it's not too shabby is it? My personal point 4 would be the lack of cover in certain positions. Especially where we've let people go.

We need decent cover for left back. If Bentley/Corluka are out the door then we also need cover for right midfield and right back. Alternatively we need a new left back and right back and make the existing first choice cover, depending on how much you rate the player concerned.

I think next season we'll see Caulker back at the club, Naughton back at the club (right back cover?) and it would be apparent from the failed Cahill bids that we are chasing a younger centre half.

Then all of a sudden all this talk about an ageing team etc, will disappear over one transfer window. Not that it was ever an issue anyway....

 

[billyiddo]

.

good post, but there is plenty in there which can be leveled at people on both sides of the fence, not just those with something negative to say about the manager - the amount of talking down to and out right insults that one side feels they have the right to dish out because they are defending the manager rather than being critical is beyond a joke.

you'll always get people talk in absolutes on football message boards - is there any difference from proclaiming a manager a genius for getting a run of wins on the go and someone calling him an idiot when we lose ? the only difference is one is positive one is negative but both are the same type of post when you think about it (with regards to what you say above)

people will do well to remember this is a message board for ALL fans, some who wear their heart on their sleeve, some are more reserved, tactically aware people who analyze everything or posters who just like to kick back and watch a game of football on the tv. everyone has their right to opinion and to share that opinion - if someone wants a message board where only those of you who have a 'deeper knowledge of the game' can discuss things why not start your own board where you can ban anyone who doesn't share your enlightened opinion ?

 

[mick cooper]

POT. KETTLE. BLACK.

VDV has said he was shocked we never practiced corners or free kicks. The evidence that this is true is before our eyes every game and the statistics back it up.

In january, H let Corluka, Bassong, Pav and Piennar go. He brought in Saha and Nelsen. We have no direct replacement for Ade, Lennon, Bale, BAE, Modric or Walker. You still think he has managed the squad well?

and I pointed out that I only highlighted the spelling mistake for the point of humour, if you seriously believe that I don't know how to spell ignore then thats up to you.

how much do you think that replacements for Lennon, Bale and Modric would cost? Seriously?

Walker I agree with, BAE we have Rose (or Bale) Pav was better to dump whilst he had a value and pienaar had little impact on the team. Bassong went when we had King, Gallas, Dawson and Kaboul. How do you know that he didn't try to buy replacements and wasn't offered the money until the backlog was cleared? You don't, so again, its all opinions and no real hard facts.

My point is still valid, you - because of your views will find anything at all to knock the guy with.

I prefer to look at how much we have improved and how good we are to watch, rather than criticise him for what he hasn't achieved.

As I have said on several occasions, I don't have a problem with rational debate, or you holding opposing views to mine (we also share reservations - but I don't translate mine into a smear campaign) I just wish that having made your point, you'd give it a rest and not dredge it all back up again everytime you get the arseholes.

 

[a spur from swansea]

Chancer, can I ask you an honest question

Do you think Arry is ever accountable for anything in this club or responsbile to receive constructive criticism from fans, the board, etc.? (nothing to do with your corners post - just a general query)

At least the majority of posters who think harry is doing ok,keep to the facts on the pitch where as the people who are against him have a go on his appearance,his personality,his traits even though most of it was brought about due to a fatal car crash he was in twenty years.Having a pop on his financial dealings.........mmmm is he the only one..........i don't think so.

The facts are we could be third best side in the league by sunday,and three consecutive top 6 finishes in the league,end of .......what more does he need to do.

I do think harry has been used as smoke screen by levy and the board.........i do believe harry job is on the line and if it does go tits up sunday he maybe out of a job by the end of the month,but if not why haven't the board come out saying the opposite..........about harrys future, future investment,where are we at with the new ground.

Over the last two years we've bought and loaned on the cheap inreality compared to sides around us,and if we carry on in the same vein we be like liverpool moaning on what we had and being on the outside looking in on table poitions.

 

[polski sklep]

... extreme bias and ignorance simply serves to drive the deteriorating overall quality down towards the levels of Arse Mania or similar cess pit.

Take heed, Arc.

 

[Pirate55]

Constructive criticism - absolutely yes. I will give you 4 specific examples:

1. I think Harry talks too much to the media
2. I share others' concerns about our lack of success at corners.
3. Whilst I don't mind Bale wandering around as much as others do, I would prefer a firmer insistence he does most of his work on the left
4. I am not happy with the roster of strikers at our disposal, although it's hard to say who's fault that is and I see no point in doing Ôé¼14m punts on the likes of second-raters like Pav.

So yes, there's no way he's perfect, but in all honesty 90% of my defence of Harry isn't so much a defence of him as it is a reaction to the mindless and personalised abuse he gets and the truly macaronic, out-of-line criticism he gets on some things. For example, when people start saying he wants Chelsea to win the CL more than he wants us in it next season, I see red and will not accept such brainlessness.


Ed: Just to add, if Harry were fired in the morning for Martinez, I would say I think he's been terribly treated, but I wouldn't lie - I'd be excited by the prospect of Roberto.

I heard an interview with H at the height of the time he was being touted as England Manager. As if to try and prove his "Englishness" he said he always wants an English Club to do well in Eurupe and hoped Chelsea would win the CL. When it was pointed out to him that this could mean Spurs not getting CL if we finished 4th, he backtracked. However, in most walks of life you dont big up your major competitors and in football it is virtually sacralidge to promote the interests of your fiercest enemies. For me, that is unforgiveable. Sorry if that offends some of his supporters. It is just not the way I expect our football manager to behave.

 

[ArcspacE]

Keep twisting that knife, Polish

 

[BrainOfLevy]

good post, but there is plenty in there which can be leveled at people on both sides of the fence, not just those with something negative to say about the manager - the amount of talking down to and out right insults that one side feels they have the right to dish out because they are defending the manager rather than being critical is beyond a joke.

you'll always get people talk in absolutes on football message boards - is there any difference from proclaiming a manager a genius for getting a run of wins on the go and someone calling him an idiot when we lose ? the only difference is one is positive one is negative but both are the same type of post when you think about it (with regards to what you say above)

people will do well to remember this is a message board for ALL fans, some who wear their heart on their sleeve, some are more reserved, tactically aware people who analyze everything or posters who just like to kick back and watch a game of football on the tv. everyone has their right to opinion and to share that opinion - if someone wants a message board where only those of you who have a 'deeper knowledge of the game' can discuss things why not start your own board where you can ban anyone who doesn't share your enlightened opinion ?

Honestly I don't disagree with anything you say and I'm not advocating a board where only tactically aware posters can come together and everyone else is banned, it just is the tone. And yeah maybe it does come from both sides. Don't disagree there either.

It's just reading the posts the appear here on a daily basis - particularly when we are in a bad run of form - the likes of 'anyone could have seen that x was doing y and Harry should have done this' just makes me want to bang my head against the desk, particularly when it veers into insulting the man, calling him a saggy faced prick etc. I mean WTF!

I understand some people talk in absolutes but really nothing is absolute in life, let alone football.

 

[polski sklep]

Arc - you have been at the forefront of abusing Harry and should definitely take heed of your own words.

 

[ArcspacE]

Arc - you have been at the forefront of abusing Harry and should definitely take heed of your own words.

I am inviting you to go through my post history (click on 'profile' - top right) and find a single post in which I have called him a qunt, twitching taco, bulldog face, or a similar obscenity. Take your time.

I have expressed concern about how the media was handled during the England fiasco and some of his transfer dealings. Also believed at the time of his latest interview about mid-table, etc. it would be best to part as the relationship seemed irrepairable.

Burn me!

 

[mick cooper]

That is only partly true though, I'm afraid. There is a selective few who appear to actively police this forum and track down any form of criticism or questions raised towards him (not referring to verbal abuse, insults and common thuggery, etc. - I mean resonable arguments born out of objective concern towards the club) and proceed to attack anyone who dares to question this apparent behemot of a manager we're all unappreciative of. fudging hell, mate - give me a break. This is a discussion board, if people are unable to tolerate different opinion to theirs without resorting to abuse then why bother with this medium - and that refers to both the pro and anti-camp.

Yes, the thread title is OTT but much like most threads on here there have been valid points raised as it evolved soto take it at face value becomes unfair towards most contributors.

There are numerous people who raise valid points on both sides and serve to enrich the general knowledge in this place although extreme bias and ignorance simply serves to drive the deteriorating overall quality down towards the levels of Arse Mania or similar cess pit.

This divide is killing the board at crucial point in the season - guaranteed 4th with a win and a CL qualification spot for the 2nd time in 3 years. You couldn't make it up.

For the sake of the moderators.
This post is clearly a post aimed at me (and or people with a similar POV) so I'd like to put my side of the argument.

I have always tried to put my points forward in a clear and simple manner, but have to deal with a sea of invective and speculative posts that are based almost solely on opinions without foundation. I have always been prepared to do so, and will continue to this in future.

Having concerns about the club is one thing, but that only stands when there are sufficient symptoms to base a concern around. This board has a large number of posters who continually fabricate symptoms like hypochondriacs in an effort to convince doctors to amputate. Some posters also have a tendancy towards Munchausens syndrome

What you see as policing the board, is simply people who are offended by the lies, innuendo and rubbish that people attempt to serve up as fact, take pirates 15 symptoms as an example of the lengths people will go to to fabricate evidence. It might convince him, but it doesn't to people with a more reasonable and calm perspective. Maybe your policy of deluging the board with an opinion on everything might also be seen as policing, stasi like in its insidious ubiquity.

I have my own opinions on what is driving down the quality of the board, and I would suggest that quantity of posts is no substitute for quality.

 

[parklane1]

good post, but there is plenty in there which can be leveled at people on both sides of the fence, not just those with something negative to say about the manager - the amount of talking down to and out right insults that one side feels they have the right to dish out because they are defending the manager rather than being critical is beyond a joke.

you'll always get people talk in absolutes on football message boards - is there any difference from proclaiming a manager a genius for getting a run of wins on the go and someone calling him an idiot when we lose ? the only difference is one is positive one is negative but both are the same type of post when you think about it (with regards to what you say above)

people will do well to remember this is a message board for ALL fans, some who wear their heart on their sleeve, some are more reserved, tactically aware people who analyze everything or posters who just like to kick back and watch a game of football on the tv. everyone has their right to opinion and to share that opinion - if someone wants a message board where only those of you who have a 'deeper knowledge of the game' can discuss things why not start your own board where you can ban anyone who doesn't share your enlightened opinion ?

Well said. Everyone has a opinion and some are stronger then others, but one of the problems is there are some ( on both sides) who class all those who disagree with them as being incabable of having a valid point.

 

[polski sklep]

I am inviting you to go through my post history (click on 'profile' - top right) and find a single post in which I have called him a qunt, twitching taco, bulldog face, or a similar obscenity. Take your time.

I have expressed concern about how the media was handled during the England fiasco and some of his transfer dealings. Also believed at the time of his latest interview about mid-table, etc. it would be best to part as the relationship seemed irrepairable.

Burn me!

No chance!

You are in denial if you can't see how you've abused him by spamming the board with hate and thus, contributing to it's "deteriorating" content.

Tbf, you've calmed down a bit since the results have picked up.