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Ex-managers: I'm pining for the past and cannot move on

Which Ex-Manager?

  • Martin Jol

    Votes: 22 40.0%

  • Juande Ramos

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Harry Redknapp

    Votes: 22 40.0%

  • Andre Villas Boas

    Votes: 8 14.5%

  • Tim Sherwood

    Votes: 3 5.5%
  • Total voters
    55
Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Redknapp wasn't lucky in any way, yes he had Modric, but he also had a massively weak midfield (defensively) and quick brought in Palacios and later Parker to fix that. Seemingly simple things like that, plus setting up in a way that allowed his best player to express themselves was his best attribute. People say he was too reliant on Modric/VDV/etc. that was the plan, give those players the space/positioning to be able to be their best.

The big elephant in the room btw is not was Levy right to fire Harry

The big elephant in the room, is how many people truly believe (not want or don't want), that Poch will be here at the end of the season?
 
Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Raziel said:
Redknapp wasn't lucky in any way, yes he had Modric, but he also had a massively weak midfield (defensively) and quick brought in Palacios and later Parker to fix that. Seemingly simple things like that, plus setting up in a way that allowed his best player to express themselves was his best attribute. People say he was too reliant on Modric/VDV/etc. that was the plan, give those players the space/positioning to be able to be their best.

The big elephant in the room btw is not was Levy right to fire Harry

The big elephant in the room, is how many people truly believe (not want or don't want), that Poch will be here at the end of the season?
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I don't. 7th is the minimum I believe he will have to finish to keep his job, but I don't think we will finish 7th or higher.
 
Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

glorygloryeze said:
My point is that surely our 4-0 win vs QPR should at least for you give you a glimpse of what is possible from Poch. I thought you'd be ok with being less competitive in the 'big'games if you felt we would be more entertaining in the games vs fodder? I'm just saying that the 4-0 I would have thought would give you something to feel could happen again if given time and the right conditions.
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Just wondering whether you went to the Spurs v QPR game? QPR probably gave the most abject performance I have seen from a team at WHL, it almost made our performance against Stoke at the weekend look like a fighting performance. They sat off of us, let us have the ball and tried to park the bus. The problem is that the other teams in the league have now seen the likes of WBA and Stoke come to WHL and be successful in playing their game and looking for the win. I don't think we are going to see teams sit back at WHL now (other than perhaps in the Europa League or the FA Cup if we draw a lower league club). Come to WHL, get stuck into us, commit men forward and you'll get a result.

While I accept we currently aren't too many points away from the CL places, we're also just as close to the relegation places and that is with a nasty little run of fixtures on the horizon. We really do need to find a team, shape, style of play and mentality that ensure we start to pick up points at home against the teams where "Home Win" goes down on the coupon, otherwise this season could get rather uncomfortable.
 
Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

NWND said:
Under Martin Jol, I watched us demolish the typically solid Moyes Everton 5-2 at WHL with this team:

........................Robinson

Pamarot......Naybet........King.........Edman

Marney.......Carrick.......Mendes......Ziegler

.................Keane.......Kanoute

On paper, in some areas doesn't even look as strong as the current squad, but it had two quality ball-players in midfield, two dangerous and intelligent forwards and in Naybet and King a rock-solid and commanding defence.
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That team is very strong through the centre and that is typically the key ingredient in creating a good football team. It is also the exact opposite of what we have at the moment (other than Lloris in goal of course).
 
Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Spurs7891 said:
IMO, the key players in that team was King and Carrick. They made the team stable in defence and midfield. We went backwards when we sold Carrick but were fortunate to buy his replacement Modric.

People talk about the "success" under Redknapp but it was largely due to Modric. Redknapp were so lucky as his team were build around playmaker Modric who was bought under Ramos. AVB was very unlucky as Modric left just as he took over and we couldn't find a replacement. I think AVB would have done wonders if he had Modric. I always feel we under performed under Redknapp. You have to question why we never achieved anything in 2010-11 season when we had a midfield of Modric, VDV, Lennon and Bale.
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I still find it incredible the way that people find it so easy to forget that Modric was not this amazing World Class player right from the day we signed him. As I recall when Redknapp came to the club there were serious question marks about Modric with many stating that he was too lightweight, etc for the PL. He developed into that fantastic player under Redknapp he wasn't a ready made super star in the slightest.

If we under performed under Redknapp - 4th, 5th (with a CL qtr final), 4th again - then GHod knows what we have done since under AVB and now Pochettino!
 
So, the big elephant in the room...

Modric was a World Class prospect when we signed him make no mistake - not taking anything away from Redknapp but trying to infer he turned a nobody into a diamond is a stretch, to put it lightly. Afterall he was our joint record transfer at the time - 16m.
 
Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Redknapp moving him in centrally came about as most of his tactical decisions, through necessity, and not some calculated plan.
 
So, the big elephant in the room...

He was always a CM tbf

I remember concerns about his supposed light weight - but anyone who watched him play for us could see what a tough cookie he was - one of his first games in CM for us was away to Bolton, back when they had a certain reputation (iirc) and he bossed the game.
 
Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

The notion that Redknapp made Modric the player that he is is just laughable.

When Redknapp arrived at the club, Modric had played a mere handful of games in England. Of course he wasn't fully up to speed or anything like it.

But he would soon enough have found his Premier League feet and developed into the world class player that he is, regardless of who had been his manager at Spurs.

Honestly, some people do talk utter guff.
 
Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

I'm not going to go digging here, but I believe Redknapp didn't think he could handle it centrally. Eventually he was forced into giving it a go through injuries.
 
Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

jimmyb said:
The notion that Redknapp made Modric the player that he is is just laughable.

When Redknapp arrived at the club, Modric had played a mere handful of games in England. Of course he wasn't fully up to speed or anything like it.

But he would soon enough have found his Premier League feet and developed into the world class player that he is, regardless of who had been his manager at Spurs.

Honestly, some people do talk utter guff.
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So I take it you also think AVB does not deserve any credit for Bale's wonderful season in 12/13?
 
Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Regardless of all this *** for tat nonsense over who developed who (each manager plays their part in a players growth at the end of the day) the fact remains we didn't sign any prospects on the level of Modric or Bale or hidden gems on the level of Berbatov outside of a DoF structure - so moving forward if we can back the head coach with his players for the first team and also have someone looking for potential then we'd be on to a winner, do we not agree on that?
 
Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

billyiddo said:
Regardless of all this *** for tat nonsense over who developed who (each manager plays their part in a players growth at the end of the day) the fact remains we didn't sign any prospects on the level of Modric or Bale or hidden gems on the level of Berbatov outside of a DoF structure - so moving forward if we can back the head coach with his players for the first team and also have someone looking for potential then we'd be on to a winner, do we not agree on that?[/QUOTE]

Lloris?

I'm all for it, provided the signings are the manager's choice, or the manager agrees to sign them after being made aware of x player that we have scouted.
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Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

billyiddo said:
Modric was a World Class prospect when we signed him make no mistake - not taking anything away from Redknapp but trying to infer he turned a nobody into a diamond is a stretch, to put it lightly. Afterall he was our joint record transfer at the time - 16m.
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Lamela and Ericksen were also supposed to be World class prospects... Lamela also was (and still is) our joint record transfer.... Have either of those turned out to be World class? After all it's just natural that these players progress isn't it?
 
I'm pining for the past and cannot move on

I know many on here couldn't stand Sherwood and would find anything to try and turn against him. I am not saying he is the best manager we have ever seen BUT we did play some of our best football since Redknapp left under him. He also wasn't as rigid in team formation and shape as we had seen with AVB and now with Poch. I personally don't think we would be any worse off if Tim was still in charge and probably would be in a better position in the league.

Long term i still have faith in Poch but really starting to scratch my head a bit on some things we have seen. I still don't understand the reluctance not to use two strikers at home against "so-called" weaker opposition. Whoever is up top looks so isolated. I get what the system is trying to do but whatever the reason (personnel, understanding etc.) it just is not working we aren't creating enough chances that much is clear
 
Re: Sherwood would we be better off if he stayed?

I always quite liked Tim however I don't feel he is the right fit for us right now; I think he needs to learn the trade at lower leagues with less expectation first.

That said we did develop a habit of comfortably beating the poorer sides, particularly at home and so yes I expect that we would have recorded more than 0 points against WBA, Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Stoke. However, not convinced we'd have got 4 pts from west ham and arsenal with him.

A bit like Harry he kept things uncomplicated and wasn't scared to tell idiots that they were idiots.
 
Re: Sherwood would we be better off if he stayed?

We did not play good football under him. We looked absolutely clueless all over the pitch.

The club would become a cesspool of lies and backstabbing.
 
Re: Sherwood would we be better off if he stayed?

clevelandspur said:
I know many on here couldn't stand Sherwood and would find anything to try and turn against him. I am not saying he is the best manager we have ever seen BUT we did play some of our best football since Redknapp left under him. He also wasn't as rigid in team formation and shape as we had seen with AVB and now with Poch. I personally don't think we would be any worse off if Tim was still in charge and probably would be in a better position in the league.

Long term i still have faith in Poch but really starting to scratch my head a bit on some things we have seen. I still don't understand the reluctance not to use two strikers at home against "so-called" weaker opposition. Whoever is up top looks so isolated. I get what the system is trying to do but whatever the reason (personnel, understanding etc.) it just is not working we aren't creating enough chances that much is clear
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Waiting for scara to agree with you wholeheartedly :ross:
 
Re: Sherwood would we be better off if he stayed?

Jordinho said:
We did not play good football under him. We looked absolutely clueless all over the pitch.

The club would become a cesspool of lies and backstabbing.
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The media circus and back stabbing was what lost him his job. We were far from clueless on the pitch. I wouldn't quite call it good football but it was certainly effective and we beat pretty much everyone we played from 5th downwards
 
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