Ex-managers: I'm pining for the past and cannot move on

[Finney Is Back]

Re: Sherwood would we be better off if he stayed?

Any team with SaS up front would have won the league that season. The best thing Sherwood did for that team was to miraculously keep his flappy trap shut long enough to avoid backstabbing them all and ruining the team.

Other notable PFA team of the year winners:

David Bardsley
Steve Stone
Rob Lee
Kevin Phillips
Wes Brown
Andrew Johnson
Jamie Carragher
Glen Johnson

You mean like how Saudi Sportswashing Machine won the league with Shearer and Ferdinand up front? If you think all it takes to win the league is a good front partnership then you know even less about football than I previously thought.

By the way all of those players above had excellent season' sat some point in their careers (although even I am struggling a bit with Bardsley)... You calling them out just emphasises your 'all things foreign are better' bias even more.

We could do with a few of the types above at their peak in our team at the moment. I expect you'd rather have Capoue though?

 

[Lost Mango]

Re: Sherwood would we be better off if he stayed?

Do we really need to open up the Deadwoood debate again?

he is gone. I can't see anyway he is coming back. His relevance to our current position (except perhaps not signing anyone in January but that probably wasn't his fault) is almost zero.

Time to move on from Harry and Tim. History only.

 

[the dza]

Re: Sherwood would we be better off if he stayed?

Absolutely this.

His results came from Ade having a point to prove. Once the point was proven and Ade went back to stealing a living the performances dropped.

I don't think so -- for our last 6 games of the season, we won 4, drew 1 and lost 1.

In a 6 game period just prior to this, we lost 4 and won 2. But 3 of the losses were to Chelsea (away) Arsenal (home) and Liverpool (away).

Basically, the performances didn't really drop, we just mainly lost to teams who were better than us.

Of the 6 league games we lost under Sherwood, only 2 were to 'lesser' sides (Norwich and West Ham, both away). Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and Emirates Marketing Project were the other losses.

First 8 league games under Sherwood -- 5 wins, 2 draws, 1 loss. = 17 points.

Last 8 league games under Sherwood - 5 wins, 1 draw, 2 losses = 16 points.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Re: Sherwood would we be better off if he stayed?

Absolutely this.

His results came from Ade having a point to prove. Once the point was proven and Ade went back to stealing a living the performances dropped.

Why is it that when it comes to Sherwood you feel that his good results were down to a single player (Adebayor). But when people make this argument about AVB's good results solely being down to him having Bale and nothing to do with the manager you don't agree with this?

Unfortunately right now Pochettino doesn't have a Bale so he had better find a way to give Adebayor a point to prove otherwise we look in serious trouble!

 

[Finney Is Back]

Re: Sherwood would we be better off if he stayed?

I don't think so -- for our last 6 games of the season, we won 4, drew 1 and lost 1.

In a 6 game period just prior to this, we lost 4 and won 2. But 3 of the losses were to Chelsea (away) Arsenal (home) and Liverpool (away).

Basically, the performances didn't really drop, we just mainly lost to teams who were better than us.

Of the 6 league games we lost under Sherwood, only 2 were to 'lesser' sides (Norwich and West Ham, both away). Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and Emirates Marketing Project were the other losses.

First 8 league games under Sherwood -- 5 wins, 2 draws, 1 loss. = 17 points.

Last 8 league games under Sherwood - 5 wins, 1 draw, 2 losses = 16 points.

Please don't spoil his argument with facts. I'm sure Ade had another point to prove again for those last 5 matches.... (or some such nonsense)

 

[the dza]

Re: Sherwood would we be better off if he stayed?

I could also point out that Sherwood won his last 4 home league games, with us scoring 14 goals in the process -- Ade scored 3 of them (1 was a penalty).

 

[Finney Is Back]

Re: Sherwood would we be better off if he stayed?

True - but you're forgetting the 7 last ditch tackles he made, those 12 goal line clearances and his man of the match performance when he took over in goal from Lloris and saved 4 penalties!

 

[Craig_J]

Re: Sherwood would we be better off if he stayed?

Absolutely this.

His results came from Ade having a point to prove. Once the point was proven and Ade went back to stealing a living the performances dropped.

What point did Ade have to prove exactly? Got this funny image of him deciding that he was going to proove to fans that he's not **** he just can't be bothered to be good, almost as if he's trying to wind us up even more.

 

[Cochise]

Re: Sherwood would we be better off if he stayed?

I wanted him gone more for his media antics than the football one's. That said, there were plenty of games he was in charge of where we really rode our luck. For every Sunderland at home result, there was a Norwich Away. As others have alluded to with Sherwood there was freedom for the players to play and it worked a treat against many teams poorer than ourselves, however the lack of a tactical plan was evident against a lot of teams who were set up well. If the rumour of him losing the senior players is true (apparently they went to Levy and threatened to walk if Sherwood wasn't axed) then he really wasn't the right man, although given how the senior players are right now I'm not sure if that was a bad thing.

Poch on the other hand is trying to get the players to implement a strategy. Whether or not it is wrong or the players aren't up to speed yet is debatable although from recent press releases I'd say it's a combination of the two, but given that we know he can create teams that play good football, I'd rather wait around to see what he does than pull the trigger before he's barely got his feet under the table. This is gonna be a Marathon, not a sprint. Rodgers over at Liverpool endured a lengthy period where they dropped points to **** teams, but they came through it and with the right purchases (Sturridge and Coutinho) things started to pick up.

 

[the dza]

Re: Sherwood would we be better off if he stayed?

Adebayor was continuing under Sherwood where has had left off the previous season under AVB -- he finished AVB's first season strongly, with 2 goals in the last 3 games, including a cracker against Chelsea. Then he never really featured for AVB again the next season, til we were getting murdered by City away iirc. Sherwood basically just picked him and he continued the good form he had found at the end of the previous season.

Unfortunately for us, he's lost that form for the moment.

 

[NWND]

Re: Sherwood would we be better off if he stayed?

Adebayor was continuing under Sherwood where has had left off the previous season under AVB -- he finished AVB's first season strongly, with 2 goals in the last 3 games, including a cracker against Chelsea. Then he never really featured for AVB again the next season, til we were getting murdered by City away iirc. Sherwood basically just picked him and he continued the good form he had found at the end of the previous season.

Unfortunately for us, he's lost that form for the moment.

Not sure he's lost form. He just gets no service whatsoever

 

[milo]

Re: Sherwood would we be better off if he stayed?

Do we really need to open up the Deadwoood debate again?

he is gone. I can't see anyway he is coming back. His relevance to our current position (except perhaps not signing anyone in January but that probably wasn't his fault) is almost zero.

Time to move on from Harry and Tim. History only.

=D>

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Sherwood would we be better off if he stayed?

Sherwood polarised fans and players. We got results. Not amazing results. We still got battered by the top teams. And he was horrible in the media. Some players he disliked and made it public and the ones he liked clearly played for him. The football was horrid to watch. I went to a fair few home games and it was disjointed and we were poor defensively. He had a remit to get us 4th place or jog on. He thought he could, then realised he couldn't and then turned in to a bitter cry baby and refused to accept that he had promised something he could not achieve. He left and we hired a promising coach with a good CV. It hasn't clicked yet. It may well do. But by GHod we are better off without Tim.

=D>

 

[lurker of old]

Re: Sherwood would we be better off if he stayed?

I didn't like Sherwood, perhaps because it seemed that he had briefed against AVB, perhaps because he was an arrogant s.o.b.. But he did very well indeed as a manager in the Premier League, (if not the cups) and there is no doubt that his team would be organised and more successful than the current shambles. We just have to believe that Pochettino has what it takes to ride the storm, get some results so he keeps his job, then builds a team to compete in the second half of the season and beyond.
Ultimately I don't care who is our manager, as long as they are successful. Mark Hughes, Tony Pulis - I couldn't give a damn who does the job if they are successful and most important, if they respect our tradition and respect the cups. Even Rednapp blotted his copybook here.
As for TS, I'm sure he will be successful as a manager, partly because he knows the game, partly because he is such an arrogant so and so. But first he has to find a Chairman willing to take him on.

 

[the dza]

Re: Sherwood would we be better off if he stayed?

Also, just coz I'm bored:

AVB's best season, Bale was THE man. He scored 21 league goals. If you took his goals away from all the games they were scored in, and modified the results accordingly, you'd have to take 24 points away from our total. Crudely put, Bale got 33.3% of our points.

For Sherwood, let's say Ade was the man. 11 goals in Sherwood's league games and if you took them away, you'd take 9 points from Sherwood's total. Ade got 21.4% of the points for Sherwood.

Very crude stats, but they do help to illustrate the relative importance of each player to the manager.

 

[the dza]

Re: Sherwood would we be better off if he stayed?

Not sure he's lost form. He just gets no service whatsoever

I'm a fan of Ade, but he is certainly out of form imo. Missed some good chances this season and he's had a good run of games in the team. Whether he will recover his form, I don't know. I hope so, because he is our best forward when playing well.

 

[NWND]

Re: Sherwood would we be better off if he stayed?

I'm a fan of Ade, but he is certainly out of form imo. Missed some good chances this season and he's had a good run of games in the team. Whether he will recover his form, I don't know. I hope so, because he is our best forward when playing well.

But I think most of our attacking players look poor as we're too slow to move the ball from defence to attack. By the time Ade,Lamela and Eriksen are on the ball passing options are closed down there's 2 banks of drfenders. Are looked isolated all season and Kane came in against Stoke bang in form but looked just as lost playing in that team as Ade

 

[Baleforce]

Re: Sherwood would we be better off if he stayed?

lot of wordy replies to this thread, i'm gonna nail it in one

no

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Sherwood would we be better off if he stayed?

The difference between AVB and Sherwood last season were the Southampton, Stoke and West Brom games. Sherwood got both home and away.

Norwich: AVB won at home, Sherwood lost away

Chelsea: AVB drew at home, Sherwood lost away

Hull: AVB won at home, Sherwood drew away

Everton: Sherwood won at home, AVB drew away

Saudi Sportswashing Machine: Sherwood won away, AVB lost at home

Man U: Sherwood won away, AVB drew at home

Sherwood wins 10-9. Big ****ing difference. Wooo!

 

[Finney Is Back]

Re: Sherwood would we be better off if he stayed?

Sherwood polarised fans and players. We got results. Not amazing results. We still got battered by the top teams. And he was horrible in the media. Some players he disliked and made it public and the ones he liked clearly played for him. The football was horrid to watch. I went to a fair few home games and it was disjointed and we were poor defensively.

While none of us would state that the football under Sherwood was as good as the fantastic stuff Harry had us playing, I don't think you could call it 'horrid to watch' especially when a fairer comparison was the awful, boring, turgid performances under AVB who was the manager before Tim. I also feel that we are worse defensively at the moment under Pochettino than we were under Sherwood. The 4 defenders don't even defend as a unit, let alone the defence and midfield.

Hopefully it is as Scara predicts and just because we are making such big, difficult changes that there is an inevitable big drop in quality while the players go through the change curve. The worry here though is that if the system is really so difficult and complex then we'll have the same problems that we do now every time we bring in a couple of new players.