Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
has to be dubai
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European Super League - Dead on arrival
- Thread starter milo
- Start date
has to be dubai
One question - what does fan representation bring to the table other than "I don't like that (whatever that is -> ticket price, ESL, squad investment)"
I'm not completely sold that the ESL tanked due to fan pressure, I'd believe that if it happened after a week or two, reality (only facts we know)
- City & Chelsea were the last to join (6 required due to majority vote needed in PL)
- Both immediately bailed within 24 hours effectively killing the others ability to stand against the PL rules
If you want a foil hat perspective, City & Chelsea don't benefit from ESL (same as Bayern in Germany) and potentially get disadvantaged by it, look at the above with that in mind.
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
we call ourselves fans, we're customers, stupidly loyal customers admittedly, but that's the relationship, I have no more right to a say or expertise to impart to a football club than I do a car manufacturer or a soft drinks company
Thank you, people don't get being part of a board is a responsibility and part of that responsibility is in direct conflict with a fans view
- Tottenham's mission is to get the most money as possible out of supporters (customers) to enable the club to progress on the field.
What fan representation is going to agree with that? Even if they did, what other value will they bring, how is having a fan view help the business? (seems the best answer so far is to be able to shout "look out", club could pay a consultant for that)
Ok say it all went ahead and we were in it. The salary cap would be what exactly? 50% of turnover? So utd, real and barca get to spend more on players than us. Then they say, hold on we get much better viewing figures than you. We want more tv revenue. So spurs end up near the bottom of the league with not even a relegation battle to keep us interested.
Soon they realise, hold on. Asians struggle to watch us on midweek nights. We should move to saturdays as well. Pull out of your domestic leagues. Oh and chelsea you can't get planning permission why not move to moscow? 160 million russians huge market. And do we really need 2 clubs in manchester?
Nobody is saying the current situation is good. La liga and the bundesliga are making tv distribution more fair to make their leagues more competitive. We also need better finacial regulations in the game. But this wasn't the answer.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
It means that group of constituents is represented. I think there are many stakeholders in the game of football; board members, broadcast partners, leagues, national associations, players, fans, club staff, coaching staff, I could go on.
When big decisions get made about the future of our club, or any club, it's helpful to have the voice of the people that matter involved in shaping that decision so that things don't skew too far one way or the other. I think players are an interesting part of this too - imagine doing something that meant hypothetically there would be a game every other day all season? Maybe the projections come back saying we'd make a brick load of money from it. But if players weren't consulted, maybe it gets announced and the whole thing dies because they collectively refuse.
It seems you are saying fans for the most part aren't actually going to be a valuable voice in determining the future of the club, and the people that know best should be able to just get on with it without being slowed down. Which is fine, I kinda get it, but why as a fan would you not want the opportunity to have your voice represented and heard?
Why did City and Chelsea bail? Why bother signing up in the first place?
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
I can't see how this is anything more than a box ticking exercise, surely the fan on the board will be expected to pass back information, it's not in the clubs business interest to allow any useful information out as it might be used by a competitor.
My hope is that its a smart move from Levy, will get the goodwill of some fans, will use the opportunity for what it is, but also give the trust a bloody nose at the same time.
lurker of old
Gus Poyet
I have no more right to a say or expertise to impart to a football club than I do a car manufacturer or a soft drinks company
But no car manufacturer would launch a new design without consulting customers by means of market research. Had fans been engaged / consulted, the proposals might have been more nuanced, more acceptable, and not the forthcoming MBA case study on "how not to launch a new product"...........
But no car manufacturer would launch a new design without consulting customers by means of market research. Had fans been engaged / consulted, the proposals might have been more nuanced, more acceptable, and not the forthcoming MBA case study on "how not to launch a new product"...........
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Come oooooon man! What is this self deprecating talk I am seeing here? How happy are you going to be if Spurs decide they don't need to cater to their home country fans, because there's loads of people in Asia and the US that will want to watch them? When kick off times start happening at strange times, or they start taking the club on tour during the proper season? Or Game 39 happens? At what point does the club's ability to make more money and progress come in to conflict with your desire and interest to watch them?
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
We're not.
I don't want my voice heard on running a football club, I have no idea how to run a football club, any idea I had would be ill informed and likely unworkable. Get me in the Liverpool or arsenal board room absolutely, I'm all for that.
I met someone from the club a few years ago and rest assured, he informed me they call us ‘customers’ too!
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
they do it all the time, market research and customers are two different things, as Steve Jobs said, "customers don't know what they want until you show them", similarly, Henry Ford, "if I gave the customers what they wanted it would be a cart with more horses"*
*paraphrased
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Same question to you - at what point does the club's insatiable capitalist desire for more money and 'progress' which takes them further into Asia, Africa and the US come into conflict with your opinions as a fan to the point where you stop following the club? Will you be happy with the progress and be comfortable sending the club on it's merry way, even though the game you love is unrecognisable from when you started watching them? At one point do you just say 'no, this sucks?'. Or does that point never happen, because you think the club is making more money, and that's all that matters?
We absolutely have a right, and a say, and it is a fight. We can fight for it to still be the game we love as much as possible, or we can let it go. When we're all dead, the club can do what it wants, but why when we are in the prime of our lives would we just say it's fine, go ahead and make more money, even though I will probably be less interested in it?
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
great to hear, I'd much rather the brutal truth than have smoke blown up my arse
JerusalemMan
Chris Perry
Yes.
Here is the key: "The selection criteria, mandate and constitution will be developed by independent advisors in consultation with fan groups to ensure it is truly representative of our supporter base"
That's a plural indicating that, at best, THST will only be one of the parties consulted.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
You're not supposed to run the whole thing, you're supposed to, in this example, offer a fan's perspective. And then you would have a debate with people offering the broadcast perspective, the player's perspective, the bank's perspective etc etc.
All I'm saying is, why would you be so willing to give up your rights as a fan and at what point does that stop? At what point does progress and money come into conflict with the game you fell in love with? Because unchecked, it will happen. Global touring during regular season, Game 39, closed shop Super Leagues.
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Levy would learn too much from him. We’d be unstoppable.
Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
from which point of view?
those in charge of a business trying to be successful or one person
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
I don't think I am giving up any rights, I don't think I ever had any.
All those things are likely to make us more money, which gives us more chance of success, so I'm all for them.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
You, as a fan, who will be part of a group of 100s of 1000s of Spurs fans across the country. At what point does 'the business being successful' come into conflict with what you want to see as a fan? At what point will you be less interested in the club as a result? And at what point will you wish that you fought for what you first fell in love with about this game, because you see it's moved too far away from it?