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European Super League - Dead on arrival

Lilbaz said:
Ok ask yourself Derp If it went ahead and spurs were not invited what would happen to us?
The next pl tv rights package would probably drop by a big margin.
With even less chance of winning the pl and no chance of getting into the esl we'd get less sponsorship money.
Good players won't want to join us, we wouldn't be able to afford their wages anyway.
Paying off the stadium suddenly becomes a monumental task.
Next generation of fans decide to support the clubs in the esl instead of us. Many of our current fans think what's the point? Why bother paying to watch a team that has zero chance of ever being successful, so give up.
Corporate aren't going to pay for hospitality.
We start getting in a financial mess. Nobody wants to buy into us because you can't grow the club. So we sell players but there are only really 15 clubs that have money to buy at a decent price.

How does that effect the pl? Because 14 members of the pl faced that situation. Especially after covid it could have caused some to face financial ruin.
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PL tv payment rights are not connected to CL/ELS tv rights = red herring (something I really find annoying, the completely disconnected accusations against ESL)

Some of your other points
- Players wanting to play in ESL -> yes
- Next generation of fans -> yes, but again that has already had with the new generation of City/Chelsea fans
- Again, the assumption is without these 15 clubs neither UEFA or FA can make their product sellable (which is the point the top clubs are making, i.e. if we bring the money, we want more out of it)

But my last question is "why do Spurs fans think the club has any responsibility to the other 14 clubs in the league?" and do you think West Ham or Everton fans would tinkle on our stadium if it was on fire or throw petrol?
 
milo said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1392129137167540229
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I think that's a good statement on the whole.
I don't personally feel the club needed to apologise, but they have done so and it crosses off one item of contention, gets rid of the unnecessary noise.
Fan representation is a good move imo - but more to needs to be understood as to how that will work in practice. A formal channel providing feedback and insight that has representatives over and above just the Trust should give a more balanced view. But fan expectations need to be managed as I would be surprised if this came with voting rights, or at least not on matters of real significance.
No doubt many will disagree but I think it is a step in the right direction. That the board is not just deciding how this will work, but taking independent advice is good optics.
The Trust have also shot themselves in the foot I think, as pushing for new owners and the Board to resign was never going to happen at their behest.
I understand a bit more as to why they wouldn't meet from listening to them on the TFC pod (Martin Cloake explains it pretty well - far more measured in tone than his co-chair), although I don't agree with their position. If anything the Trust's role will be reduced as they will no longer be the sole fan group with board level access.

Yes, happy with that overall I think.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
I think that's a good statement on the whole.
I don't personally feel the club needed to apologise, but they have done so and it crosses off one item of contention, gets rid of the unnecessary noise.
Fan representation is a good move imo - but more to needs to be understood as to how that will work in practice. A formal channel providing feedback and insight that has representatives over and above just the Trust should give a more balanced view. But fan expectations need to be managed as I would be surprised if this came with voting rights, or at least not on matters of real significance.
No doubt many will disagree but I think it is a step in the right direction. That the board is not just deciding how this will work, but taking independent advice is good optics.
The Trust have also shot themselves in the foot I think, as pushing for new owners and the Board to resign was never going to happen at their behest.
I understand a bit more as to why they wouldn't meet from listening to them on the TFC pod (Martin Cloake explains it pretty well - far more measured in tone than his co-chair), although I don't agree with their position. If anything the Trust's role will be reduced as they will no longer be the sole fan group with board level access.

Yes, happy with that overall I think.
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It reads to me that the club are setting up their own rival to the Trust with a non-voting rep on the board. They will just move important decisions out of board meetings. I think that it is a smart move by the club, the trust will be fuming
 
Baleforce said:
one can only hope
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They are representing a group of fans and will no doubt be one of the fan representative groups, but one among several. That's as it should be.
But let's not forget the Trust reps do a hell of a lot of work that doesn't involve Board-to-Board stuff and that work and communication with various areas of the club, local authority, police etc. is still needed. The Trust have established good working relationships, by all accounts (well, their accounts), in those areas, so that needs to be maintained.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
They are representing a group of fans and will no doubt be one of the fan representative groups, but one among several. That's as it should be.
But let's not forget the Trust reps do a hell of a lot of work that doesn't involve Board-to-Board stuff and that work and communication with various areas of the club, local authority, police etc. is still needed. The Trust have established good working relationships, by all accounts (well, their accounts), in those areas, so that needs to be maintained.
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I'm sure some of them do, but they are led by a bunch of self serving pricks who vastly overstepped the boundaries of reasonable expectation years ago.
 
Raziel said:
PL tv payment rights are not connected to CL/ELS tv rights = red herring (something I really find annoying, the completely disconnected accusations against ESL)

Some of your other points
- Players wanting to play in ESL -> yes
- Next generation of fans -> yes, but again that has already had with the new generation of City/Chelsea fans
- Again, the assumption is without these 15 clubs neither UEFA or FA can make their product sellable (which is the point the top clubs are making, i.e. if we bring the money, we want more out of it)

But my last question is "why do Spurs fans think the club has any responsibility to the other 14 clubs in the league?" and do you think West Ham or Everton fans would tinkle on our stadium if it was on fire or throw petrol?
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Ofcourse they are connected. They are connected by how much people are willing to pay to watch each. For man utd/liverpool fans what would be the point of winning the pl or finishing top 4? A bit of pride and silverware like the fa or league cup. But the esl will be what they want to win. So if they can only afford to watch one many would chose the esl.

Why do spurs fans think the club has any responsibility to the other 14 clubs in the league? Because many of us believe in the golden rule. Treat others how you would wish to be treated. Otherwise we give in to a darwanistic survival of the fittest capitalist nightmare. Real Madrid will just end up winning the esl every year. No competition left so everyone gets bored of the sport and finds something else.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
They are representing a group of fans and will no doubt be one of the fan representative groups, but one among several. That's as it should be.
But let's not forget the Trust reps do a hell of a lot of work that doesn't involve Board-to-Board stuff and that work and communication with various areas of the club, local authority, police etc. is still needed. The Trust have established good working relationships, by all accounts (well, their accounts), in those areas, so that needs to be maintained.
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I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up having season ticket holders and members vote on who sits on the new Club Advisory Panel. If they give that panel the consultation role that the trust had, the trust no longer has a place.
 
milo said:
I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up having season ticket holders and members vote on who sits on the new Club Advisory Panel. If they give that panel the consultation role that the trust had, the trust no longer has a place.
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If this is right, the trust will have to put up candidates and hope that their members vote as a block
 
Glenda's Legs said:
They are representing a group of fans and will no doubt be one of the fan representative groups, but one among several. That's as it should be.
But let's not forget the Trust reps do a hell of a lot of work that doesn't involve Board-to-Board stuff and that work and communication with various areas of the club, local authority, police etc. is still needed. The Trust have established good working relationships, by all accounts (well, their accounts), in those areas, so that needs to be maintained.
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The Trust is a brick show because they have the same idiocy of the average fan (so maybe good representation there)
- Freeze ticket prices, but tell us how you are investing in squad
- Don't use government (Spurs tax funded) programs to manage labor cost in pandemic but tell us how you are going to back the next manager
- Resign because you took the only fudging option (ESL) that was in the best interest of the club
- We want a seat on the board, we want fan ownership

The representation thing is so fudging entitled
- Spurs fans want representation on the board, anyone willing to put up some money? lets say 10% = so £200M
- What are they going to fudging bring to the meeting/board? how are they going to help the club move forward? by satisfying some vague need to be heard by a more and more irrelevant set of fans? (yes, that will get a reaction)
 
Raziel said:
The Trust is a brick show because they have the same idiocy of the average fan (so maybe good representation there)
- Freeze ticket prices, but tell us how you are investing in squad
- Don't use government (Spurs tax funded) programs to manage labor cost in pandemic but tell us how you are going to back the next manager
- Resign because you took the only fudging option (ESL) that was in the best interest of the club
- We want a seat on the board, we want fan ownership

The representation thing is so fudging entitled
- Spurs fans want representation on the board, anyone willing to put up some money? lets say 10% = so £200M
- What are they going to fudging bring to the meeting/board? how are they going to help the club move forward? by satisfying some vague need to be heard by a more and more irrelevant set of fans? (yes, that will get a reaction)
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I can agree with all of that except the ESL bit, i was glad it never happened.
 
Lilbaz said:
Ofcourse they are connected. They are connected by how much people are willing to pay to watch each. For man utd/liverpool fans what would be the point of winning the pl or finishing top 4? A bit of pride and silverware like the fa or league cup. But the esl will be what they want to win. So if they can only afford to watch one many would chose the esl.

Why do spurs fans think the club has any responsibility to the other 14 clubs in the league? Because many of us believe in the golden rule. Treat others how you would wish to be treated. Otherwise we give in to a darwanistic survival of the fittest capitalist nightmare. Real Madrid will just end up winning the esl every year. No competition left so everyone gets bored of the sport and finds something else.
Click to expand...

PL tv rights have outgrown CL for years, the composition of CL/ESL to what people will pay to watch the PL is not related, red herring again

Your golden rule is how to be a victim, did West Ham help us when our players were fudging food poisoned with our big shot at CL (game had zero impact on them), no they still laugh at it, did anyone else in the league back us when Chelsea won CL and we were 4th? did anyone in league/FA help us with our stadium planning. If you want to be happy being irrelevant = that's the route.

Barca, Juve, Bayern, PSG and soon City have mostly dominated their domestic leagues for a decade, Madrid the CL. Guess what, the fans don't disappear, if you get bored their is global line of 8 billion people happy to take your spot.

The weird fact is ESL would have made the PL & La Liga more competitive, 9 clubs on even footing with a set wage structure

Instead we will watch City/Chelsea fudge us over with odd appearance by Pool/United as they outspend everyone, but somehow that is fairer.
 
Raziel said:
The Trust is a brick show because they have the same idiocy of the average fan (so maybe good representation there)
- Freeze ticket prices, but tell us how you are investing in squad
- Don't use government (Spurs tax funded) programs to manage labor cost in pandemic but tell us how you are going to back the next manager
- Resign because you took the only fudging option (ESL) that was in the best interest of the club
- We want a seat on the board, we want fan ownership

The representation thing is so fudging entitled
- Spurs fans want representation on the board, anyone willing to put up some money? lets say 10% = so £200M
- What are they going to fudging bring to the meeting/board? how are they going to help the club move forward? by satisfying some vague need to be heard by a more and more irrelevant set of fans? (yes, that will get a reaction)
Click to expand...

What exactly is the problem with fan groups wanting some representation, so that they are a constituent that is at least considered when these big decisions happen in the future? Maybe having someone in the room saying 'STOP, THIS IS INSANE!' will mean we nip some of these things in the bud?

I haven't historically been the biggest fan of THST, I think they have acted in quite an entitled way at times and I think going straight in with 'we demand the board resign' hasn't helped their cause at all. But the general concept of fan representation is a perfectly fair one. We are fans, why would we not want this? We have just seen a quite hilarious and quite seismic tanking of a European Super League due to fan pressure, and if fans voices were better represented when these decisions get made, it may well have not gotten that far.
 
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