ENIC

[Gazza]

Haven't you read any post on here, buy the best 20 players in the world and if that dont work buy 20 more.

Now now don't be like that, you know perfectly well no one is saying that. People however are having a genuine conversation about how meticulous Levy and Co are off the pitch, and no so much for matters on the pitch.

I think you can also acknowledge their MO is to fatten the goose for a sell rather than push the boat out to give the managers a great chance at winning consistently.

So asking what Levy can do better, perhaps stop looking at Spurs as an investment, since his investment is secured by the stadium and training facility along with real estate as now its as safe as houses.

Go be this fan he claims to be, to do what is best for tottenham, to make us actually challenge by backing the manager to the hilt and be as decisive in the market as he is off it.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Now now don't be like that, you know perfectly well no one is saying that. People however are having a genuine conversation about how meticulous Levy and Co are off the pitch, and no so much for matters on the pitch.

I think you can also acknowledge their MO is to fatten the goose for a sell rather than push the boat out to give the managers a great chance at winning consistently.

So asking what Levy can do better, perhaps stop looking at Spurs as an investment, since his investment is secured by the stadium and training facility along with real estate as now its as safe as houses.

Go be this fan he claims to be, to do what is best for tottenham, to make us actually challenge by backing the manager to the hilt and be as decisive in the market as he is off it.

I’m much closer to your nuanced perspective. I think most would agree Levy’s managerial decisions haven’t been great over the past couple of years. But he ultimately also signed Poch and Conte. No one knows how the latter will turn out. But if it’s a failure the entitled negative crew will be lambasting Levy for hiring him saying it was obviously a bad fit. The point is, you don’t know what will work in advance. What you do is try different things to garner success. And I don’t think anyone can criticise Levy for not trying. If anything you might criticise him for the same impatience that the ENIC out crew feel. His desire for quick success is ironically aligned with them and actually counterproductive often. Impatience is maybe levys greatest weakness. He has always been quick to pull the trigger when things are not working. But we are suffering a little from that. A manager needs 6 months just to get to know his squad. Then at least another year to reshape it.

While I agree with your cogent point that the detailed care and attention levy is capable of building the stadium is not always replicated building the playing side, he’s not the manager. And it is quite funny that less than a year ago the dominant narrative from fans was Levy should not be involved at all with player recruitment!! I felt the opposite, maybe he needed to spend more time understanding this area and devoting his considerable abilities to this now.

I’ve never understood fans lamenting Levy’s ability to do well for himself. As though they would prefer the club to be run by an idiot? As it is they’ve not taken out but put back in to grow THFC.

Levy listening to fans is also possibly also a weakness. But he did and he hired Paratici to run the footballing side. So we have to give the Italian a little time now. Negative fans do have a big impact on the way things unfold at Spurs, and not always for the better.

 

[RigorMortis]

Bedfords (interesting) question was how do you think they should change their modus operandi? You are great at criticising, but what is it you would like to see from Levy?

I’ve answered that earlier

you seem hellbent on talking issue with any criticism
As I said I’m a fan and have a right to criticise

I’m not responsible for Tottenham Hotspur, I just support them.

just like you would like to point out why you think ENIC are getting things right without pointing out how that equates to success on the pitch , I am pointing out the opposite and how I think that contributes to our lack of success

 

[SpurMeUp]

I’ve answered that earlier

you seem hellbent on talking issue with any criticism
As I said I’m a fan and have a right to criticise

I’m not responsible for Tottenham Hotspur, I just support them.

just like you would like to point out why you think ENIC are getting things right without pointing out how that equates to success on the pitch , I am pointing out the opposite and how I think that contributes to our lack of success

It is fine you don't have to have ideas on what you think should be done better in a positive sense. But it is all negative observation, this is done wrong, that has been bad etc, but I don't think you've outlined what you'd do better or differently.

 

[RigorMortis]

It is fine you don't have to have ideas on what you think should be done better in a positive sense. But it is all negative observation, this is done wrong, that has been bad etc, but I don't think you've outlined what you'd do better or differently.

I’ve just pointed out that I answered your question on how I believe ENIC should operate

please scroll up

and as I’ve saidit’s equally fair to point out that those who say ENIC are doing a fine job have provided no substance on how that will be equate to the club competing at a level expected of one that charges the highest ticket prices in the country

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I’ve just pointed out that I answered your question on how I believe ENIC should operate

please scroll up

and as I’ve saidit’s equally fair to point out that those who say ENIC are doing a fine job have provided no substance on how that will be equate to the club competing at a level expected of one that charges the highest ticket prices in the country

Would you be happier if we were crap hit charged less?

 

[RigorMortis]

The buy can was funded by them and they paid additional money too
It’s worth looking back in this thread because it came up a while back
But then as you say it’s money for nothing in effect as their minimal investment is now worth so much more
The results in the pitch though are what did drive the attendance increase and the demand for fans to attend
When I brought my season ticket about 17 years ago you could pick where to sit
As we got better it was impossible to get a season ticket. That’s the attendance and demand that made the ground viable which increases the club value which un turn makes them more money when and if they sell

I think ENIC first proposed a new stadium when they came in.
We always were stretched at WHL,
I guess the question is what our true limit on capacity is.
I think it’s probably around 60k as of demand falls from season ticket holders, the ground will simply become an event stadium promoted to tourists and neutrals as a place to watch Prem football, living or far from West Ham, I suspect that’s what the London Stadium is to some extent as well.

I agree that ENIC provided some respite from the darkness of the Sugar years but my gut feeling was that they didn’t really want to push us to be at the really top echelon and that’s what I still think

 

[RigorMortis]

Would you be happier if we were crap hit charged less?

Yes I will support Spurs no matter what. Happier perhaps not because I want spurs to do well but I wouldn’t have as a huge gripe against the owners

I think if ticket prices were less and equated to ENIC’s vision for us of the pitch I wouldn’t have a problem, they charge the prices equating to our position on the pitch.

of course it will never happen for various reasons including geography, relative spending power of Tottenham fans compared to other fans and of course the need to maximise revenue and therefore value.

But in short a fan can’t really complain about being fleeced by the owners of the prices are in line with the clubs position

We can still give our opinions on how the club is run by them.

im more curious to know why certain fans( although this forum seems to stand alone in that) seem to think it’s a high crime to criticise ENIC

 

[Baleforce]

I’ve just pointed out that I answered your question on how I believe ENIC should operate

please scroll up

and as I’ve saidit’s equally fair to point out that those who say ENIC are doing a fine job have provided no substance on how that will be equate to the club competing at a level expected of one that charges the highest ticket prices in the country

we were in the European cup final less than three years ago, there, from a club fighting relegation 20 years previously, without any financial doping

 

[Lilbaz]

I think ENIC first proposed a new stadium when they came in.
We always were stretched at WHL,
I guess the question is what our true limit on capacity is.
I think it’s probably around 60k as of demand falls from season ticket holders, the ground will simply become an event stadium promoted to tourists and neutrals as a place to watch Prem football, living or far from West Ham, I suspect that’s what the London Stadium is to some extent as well.

I agree that ENIC provided some respite from the darkness of the Sugar years but my gut feeling was that they didn’t really want to push us to be at the really top echelon and that’s what I still think

How much would it cost to push us to the top echelon. Chelsea and city it cost over £1bn. Enic haven't got £1bn in cash to do that. They had to sell their other interests to buy us in the first place.
Lewis might if he sold off some of his other companies, but why would he want to? To make you happy?
The banks won't lend money to a club to buy players.
So we built a stadium. It's finished now and we are seeing increased spending on players. This will be our first season with full capacity allowed. So in the summer we will see how much we can spend.

I get you and other fans are jealous of chelsea, Saudi Sportswashing Machine and city owners. You want our own sugar daddy. Great. Unitil one comes along though maybe put your jealousy to one side. Or at least stop moaning about levy because he wasn't born with oil fields.

 

[Lilbaz]

Yes I will support Spurs no matter what. Happier perhaps not because I want spurs to do well but I wouldn’t have as a huge gripe against the owners

I think if ticket prices were less and equated to ENIC’s vision for us of the pitch I wouldn’t have a problem, they charge the prices equating to our position on the pitch.

of course it will never happen for various reasons including geography, relative spending power of Tottenham fans compared to other fans and of course the need to maximise revenue and therefore value.

But in short a fan can’t really complain about being fleeced by the owners of the prices are in line with the clubs position

We can still give our opinions on how the club is run by them.

im more curious to know why certain fans( although this forum seems to stand alone in that) seem to think it’s a high crime to criticise ENIC

The price of tickets is determined by supply and demand. If fans weren't willing to buy season tickets at that price they would drop it.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I agree that ENIC provided some respite from the darkness of the Sugar years but my gut feeling was that they didn’t really want to push us to be at the really top echelon and that’s what I still think

I think they want to with their model, but you have no control over your opponents model, and that can become a barrier.

Our model can be successful but you have to get a lot more things right, and some luck helps.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I’ve just pointed out that I answered your question on how I believe ENIC should operate

please scroll up

and as I’ve saidit’s equally fair to point out that those who say ENIC are doing a fine job have provided no substance on how that will be equate to the club competing at a level expected of one that charges the highest ticket prices in the country

I'm sure its me, but I can't find anything on how you think Levy should make positive change. You clearly think something is wrong. But I guess do not know what the solutions are?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think ENIC first proposed a new stadium when they came in.
We always were stretched at WHL,
I guess the question is what our true limit on capacity is.
I think it’s probably around 60k as of demand falls from season ticket holders, the ground will simply become an event stadium promoted to tourists and neutrals as a place to watch Prem football, living or far from West Ham, I suspect that’s what the London Stadium is to some extent as well.

I agree that ENIC provided some respite from the darkness of the Sugar years but my gut feeling was that they didn’t really want to push us to be at the really top echelon and that’s what I still think

I think their plan wouldn’t have factored in countries and oligarchs
Then with the stadium we have covid
I mean if any club is gonna get fudged doing the right things it’s us

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yes I will support Spurs no matter what. Happier perhaps not because I want spurs to do well but I wouldn’t have as a huge gripe against the owners

I think if ticket prices were less and equated to ENIC’s vision for us of the pitch I wouldn’t have a problem, they charge the prices equating to our position on the pitch.

of course it will never happen for various reasons including geography, relative spending power of Tottenham fans compared to other fans and of course the need to maximise revenue and therefore value.

But in short a fan can’t really complain about being fleeced by the owners of the prices are in line with the clubs position

We can still give our opinions on how the club is run by them.

im more curious to know why certain fans( although this forum seems to stand alone in that) seem to think it’s a high crime to criticise ENIC

No one has an issue with anyone criticising enic. This is a forum for opinions and a chance to vent. But you will get extremes
I think what you will find is with a forum it’s a discussion
With something like Twitter it’s shouting.
And it’s more anonymous on there too
With some other spurs forums I can’t comment TBH
I also think age and maturity of the posters make a difference. On Twitter the mental age seems to be about 5
On here you do have people with a bit more knowledge of the world that their happy to share.
I’ve run and owned a few businesses. Scara who runs the place has his own business. Others have too. We have people who have been coaches and players. We have people form all over the world so again more diversity. We have make and female posters. Black, white and something else I’m sure. But in a forum people do tend to talk more personally where as on other media it’s more about passing on views with little to no context

 

[billyiddo]

I’ve just pointed out that I answered your question on how I believe ENIC should operate

please scroll up

and as I’ve saidit’s equally fair to point out that those who say ENIC are doing a fine job have provided no substance on how that will be equate to the club competing at a level expected of one that charges the highest ticket prices in the country

Tickets prices have never really equated to the level of competitiveness of the team on the pitch in football so im not sure why you are looking to use that as your yardstick to measure our performance. Our prices are high because of supply/demand the fact we are based in London and because our facilities are among the best in the world.

The argument for why ENIC could succeed moving forwards is a simple one so doesn't really need to be repeated all the time - money is king in football, the stadium gives us more money therefore our chances for success increases with our bottom line, it's not a magic bullet though and requires the money to be invested correctly/wisely - which we have done in the past over several years/managers & DoFs (from Arnesen & Comoli to Baldini & Mitchell and Jol & Redknapp to Poch and hopefully Conte) so there's a clear precedent that we can invest well and build the football side up to a competitive level with ENIC running the club.

What isn't actually given any substance is your earlier assertion that we'll end up a 6th-8th place team under ENIC because there currently is no precedent for that beyond singular bad seasons which are usually the catalyst for a change on the football side of things.

 

[RigorMortis]

we were in the European cup final less than three years ago, there, from a club fighting relegation 20 years previously, without any financial doping

The relegation fight was a one off season under gross

the rest of the time under sugar we were mediocre

again a bit of a stretch by you.

As I have said previously why do you think Liverpool or Leiscter or even United are financially doped?
Arsenal?

also ENIC were happy to join a super league for a few elite clubs, would you not regard that as financial doping?

 

[RigorMortis]

I'm sure its me, but I can't find anything on how you think Levy should make positive change. You clearly think something is wrong. But I guess do not know what the solutions are?

I have made it clear rather than their MO being plough revenue in to build up the value of the club is to direct more towards backing the manager with their first choices and being more descisive with transfer desicisons

 

[RigorMortis]

How much would it cost to push us to the top echelon. Chelsea and city it cost over £1bn. Enic haven't got £1bn in cash to do that. They had to sell their other interests to buy us in the first place.
Lewis might if he sold off some of his other companies, but why would he want to? To make you happy?
The banks won't lend money to a club to buy players.
So we built a stadium. It's finished now and we are seeing increased spending on players. This will be our first season with full capacity allowed. So in the summer we will see how much we can spend.

I get you and other fans are jealous of chelsea, Saudi Sportswashing Machine and city owners. You want our own sugar daddy. Great. Unitil one comes along though maybe put your jealousy to one side. Or at least stop moaning about levy because he wasn't born with oil fields.

Sorry what?

why would I be jealous? So your guess at least in my case is wrong
I’m not five years old?
I’m Walthamstow born and bred and grew up round the corner from Spurs.
My support isn’t defined by spurs being successful or not.
Rather I am frustrated.
However I am well within my rights to criticise owners who have been here over twenty years, in my opinion have used the club to their own benefit and we have seen little success on the pitch in that time.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I have made it clear rather than their MO being plough revenue in to build up the value of the club is to direct more towards backing the manager with their first choices and being more descisive with transfer desicisons

So not building the new stadium? And borrowing instead to invest more into the playing staff? Many fans seem to think it is not so much we haven't spent money, it's that we've spent it badly the last couple of years.