ENIC

[Jeff Brooks]

I don't hate ENIC and Levy - I just don't respect them and I don't think they care much about results only inasmuch as the results keep us in the mix, but they aren't prepared to give the team the extra resources that might propel us into regular CL qualification. We are consistently in the top ten teams for revenue in Europe - would anyone say we are in the top ten in terms of achievement?

 

[parklane1]

The price of tickets is determined by supply and demand. If fans weren't willing to buy season tickets at that price they would drop it.

Indeed its a case of" yer pays yer momey and takes your choice", Its the same for folks who spend a few hundred quid on going out and putting the nose bag on, spending fortunes on the latest kids abacus games etc,etc. If you think you are being ripped off why do it.

 

[Lilbaz]

Indeed its a case of" yer pays yer momey and takes your choice", Its the same for folks who spend a few hundred quid on going out and putting the nose bag on, spending fortunes on the latest kids abacus games etc,etc. If you think you are being ripped off why do it.

Especially if you're not enjoying it.

 

[SpurMeUp]

“Funding has nothing to do with it, I don’t honk even with increased revenue are they prepared to invest the required amounts to make us truly competitive at the CL and PL challenging level and we will continue to lumber between 4th-7th”

That’s what I said, maybe me typing honk rather than think confused you and you have equated 4th-7th to 6th-8th

And I would say the positions I have posted support that we hover around fourth and then slide back to just outside the cl places and towards the Europa ones and that’s how i believe it will continue( and I have mentioned that I believe Poch was the outlier)

I can't read this with a straight face. Honk! ? Lets hope we get a miraculous win today so you can honk all you like.

 

[Baleforce]

The relegation fight was a one off season under gross

the rest of the time under sugar we were mediocre

again a bit of a stretch by you.

As I have said previously why do you think Liverpool or Leiscter or even United are financially doped?
Arsenal?

also ENIC were happy to join a super league for a few elite clubs, would you not regard that as financial doping?

if a club is spending more than it makes, due to investment from its owners, or through sponsorships from another of it's owner's companies, that's cheating

the super league prize money would have been earned through football activity, we were offered that place due to our all round perfermance in recent years

 

[SpurMeUp]

You haven’t mate and in fact none of us have. These posters will just use their tried and tested methods of straw manning and pretending we all want a sugar daddy to come in and spend billions on players. Just like that guy earlier who said we want the 40 best players in the world etc.

What I have repeatedly called for and lament is that our owner hasn’t put his hand into his own pocket one single time in 20 plus years for player recruitment. We dont want a roman or sheikh (I’ve said this many many times) but why when levy has negotiated a moutinho or fernandes deal to the absolute hilt and no more movement was coming from the selling club, why couldnt that ultra rich taco who owns us not dip into his own pocket for a little bit of help, £10m here and a bit more there, to get these game changing deals over the line.

If he just did that now and again (maybe a dozen times in his 20 plus years) what would we have achieved? And the good will from fans would be huge, whilst at the same time the spend from his massive pockets would have been relatively minimal, lets say £200m over 20 plus years.

But he didnt do it and never will and for that reason I hate him and think he is a disgrace.

Does Joe have a time machine to pop forwards and back to know when its a "game changing" signing? I suspect the club almost always have 10m wiggle room with reserves or overdrafts. The Diaz transfer was clearly frustrating. Are you surprised that status and say being in the CL makes the difference? All else being equal in-demand players go to more successful teams, what a surprise.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I have made it clear rather than their MO being plough revenue in to build up the value of the club is to direct more towards backing the manager with their first choices and being more descisive with transfer desicisons

Act 1,2 and 3. We have had an unforeseeable start to act 3. But the path looks clearer now, let them get on with it.

It's a novel approach to have such a long term vision in football, it will be telling (in a football landscape way) if this can be proven as a path to success.
You are obviously tired of it, tired of paying for it, and non believing in anything they say.

They have spent more money than I thought they would since summer 2029.
They have appointed two top level managers (assuming an up and comer would be unacceptable)
They have appointed a respected DofF to deal with squad building, purchase and sales negotiating.

All things that are positive direction of travel for someone that doubts them?

 

[RigorMortis]

Yes 1 trophy is not good enough. But we've been runners up 5 times and got to 7 semis that we lost. Our league positions in thd last 10 years has on average been the highest in the clubs history. Averaging 4.5 in the league. Compared to the glory years which was 4.6. The 10 years prior to enic our average league position was 10.8.
All the while with investing in the stadium and training ground. Now we will start seeing the benefits from that and hopefully turn those runners up places into wins.

Yes our recruitment the last 5 years has been bad.
Bringing in mourinho and nuno were bad choices.
Yes we dither too long on transfers and i would like us to us more decisive in who we want and get them sewn up before preseason starts.
If new investors or owners come in brilliant. But enic haven't ruined our club and levy doesn't deserve the hate.

I certainly don’t hate Levy, do I think he’s a good chairman to take Tottenham Hotspur forward from where we are now? Certainly not.
Do I acknowledge he has done good things for the club, of course.

I also don’t think ENIC have ruined the club, my adult supporting life has been in ENIC’s tenure, I was a kid/ teenager under sugar and scholar so my spurs memories good and bad are mainly
In the ENIC era.

Again context is everything here when it comes to league positions, as a kid we were a cup winning team, we won three cups in the early eighties, I properly got into spurs after italia 90 ( prior to that I had more interest in playing than watching but wouldn’t really be able to name any spurs players aside from Gazza and Lineker). We won the cup but finished mid table after falling away.
I guess most fans were happy( even though arsenal won the league) as the disparity between league position and winning a cup wasn’t as big.
The cl and tv money has changed everything so in that context league position becomes far more important.

I am still confused at why criticising ENIC prompts such extreme reactions in pro ENIC posters.

some supporters would have wanted Poch gone, a man in my mind who worked miracles for us, I didn’t but I can see why people thought his time was up and were grateful for what he achieved but thought his time was up.

But to criticise ENIc( I think this forum is an outlier however) seems to be almost like you are against Tottenham yourself.

I don’t think there is any fan who hopes ENIC don’t succeed just like there are no fans who hope Conte or paratici doesn’t succeed, or to use an even more extreme example actively wanted sherwood to fail( even though I guess most of us knew he would eventually go)

And at the same time seem to show no objective argument apart from the intangibles of our stadium suddenly making us competitive( and others falling away) and we some rise to the top and outside that cl/Europa ceiling we now have( for Billy to so if any further confusion). All I see is the same pattern on repeat with the added heartbreak of what could have been with Poch

 

[RigorMortis]

Act 1,2 and 3. We have had an unforeseeable start to act 3. But the path looks clearer now, let them get on with it.

It's a novel approach to have such a long term vision in football, it will be telling (in a football landscape way) if this can be proven as a path to success.
You are obviously tired of it, tired of paying for it, and non believing in anything they say.

They have spent more money than I thought they would since summer 2029.
They have appointed two top level managers (assuming an up and comer would be unacceptable)
They have appointed a respected DofF to deal with squad building, purchase and sales negotiating.

All things that are positive direction of travel for someone that doubts them?

Is it a novel approach
Aren’t arsenal doing something similar for starters?

what are the likes of villa, West Ham etc doing
What about within their own limitations clubs like Brighton and Brentford doing.

it’s not about what they say but what they do and Conte’s comments which were the trigger for this debate seem to echo that there is a degree of doubt on how much he will be backed.

I will reiterate that I hope for nothing more than to be proved wrong about ENIC

 

[Baleforce]

Does Joe have a time machine?

They have spent more money than I thought they would since summer 2029.

@ricky2tricky4city obviously does

 

[RigorMortis]

Does Joe have a time machine to pop forwards and back to know when its a "game changing" signing? I suspect the club almost always have 10m wiggle room with reserves or overdrafts. The Diaz transfer was clearly frustrating. Are you surprised that status and say being in the CL makes the difference? All else being equal in-demand players go to more successful teams, what a surprise.

Obviously no one here knows exactly what happened with Diaz but from the quotes from his father it appears we dithered and let Liverpool in and allowed him the choice.

of course I guess this view will be subjected to the usual “ how would you know?” Well I don’t, it’s from what’s been quoted in the press ( which in turn will be met with the press are all liars) and fits in with our dithering in the transfer market( of course for the pro ENIC I have no first hand knowledge and I understand that you all think it’s made up to make ENIC look bad) over the period ENIC have been in charge

 

[SpurMeUp]

@ricky2tricky4city obviously does

@ricky2tricky4city is it good in '29? Are we using hoover boards to get to games? Is Kane manager yet? Is Joe Lewis mummified in the Directors lounge?

 

[Baleforce]

Obviously no one here knows exactly what happened with Diaz but from the quotes from his father it appears we dithered and let Liverpool in and allowed him the choice.

of course I guess this view will be subjected to the usual “ how would you know?” Well I don’t, it’s from what’s been quoted in the press ( which in turn will be met with the press are all liars) and fits in with our dithering in the transfer market( of course for the pro ENIC I have no first hand knowledge and I understand that you all think it’s made up to make ENIC look bad) over the period ENIC have been in charge

I thought Liverpool were after Diaz last summer, definitely wanted him next summer, had already agreed everything in principle with the player and our interest just forced them into doing it sooner?

If the player knew they wanted him, and already had his heart set on it, did we dither, or did he just stall?

 

[parklane1]

Obviously no one here knows exactly what happened with Diaz but from the quotes from his father it appears we dithered and let Liverpool in and allowed him the choice.

of course I guess this view will be subjected to the usual “ how would you know?” Well I don’t, it’s from what’s been quoted in the press ( which in turn will be met with the press are all liars) and fits in with our dithering in the transfer market( of course for the pro ENIC I have no first hand knowledge and I understand that you all think it’s made up to make ENIC look bad) over the period ENIC have been in charge

Well you got that right for sure its a shame some others do not have your reasoning.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Obviously no one here knows exactly what happened with Diaz but from the quotes from his father it appears we dithered and let Liverpool in and allowed him the choice.

of course I guess this view will be subjected to the usual “ how would you know?” Well I don’t, it’s from what’s been quoted in the press ( which in turn will be met with the press are all liars) and fits in with our dithering in the transfer market( of course for the pro ENIC I have no first hand knowledge and I understand that you all think it’s made up to make ENIC look bad) over the period ENIC have been in charge

Have a look at those quotes. Paste them in...they don't really say that. They possibly say Roma 'dithered', but really think about it...as a player you have interest from 3 clubs. Your agent is in touch with them all. Money being equal, who are you going join out of the 3 options?

 

[parklane1]

I thought Liverpool were after Diaz last summer, definitely wanted him next summer, had already agreed everything in principle with the player and our interest just forced them into doing it sooner?

They will not listen you do know that dont you.

 

[Lilbaz]

I certainly don’t hate Levy, do I think he’s a good chairman to take Tottenham Hotspur forward from where we are now? Certainly not.
Do I acknowledge he has done good things for the club, of course.

I also don’t think ENIC have ruined the club, my adult supporting life has been in ENIC’s tenure, I was a kid/ teenager under sugar and scholar so my spurs memories good and bad are mainly
In the ENIC era.

Again context is everything here when it comes to league positions, as a kid we were a cup winning team, we won three cups in the early eighties, I properly got into spurs after italia 90 ( prior to that I had more interest in playing than watching but wouldn’t really be able to name any spurs players aside from Gazza and Lineker). We won the cup but finished mid table after falling away.
I guess most fans were happy( even though arsenal won the league) as the disparity between league position and winning a cup wasn’t as big.
The cl and tv money has changed everything so in that context league position becomes far more important.

I am still confused at why criticising ENIC prompts such extreme reactions in pro ENIC posters.

some supporters would have wanted Poch gone, a man in my mind who worked miracles for us, I didn’t but I can see why people thought his time was up and were grateful for what he achieved but thought his time was up.

But to criticise ENIc( I think this forum is an outlier however) seems to be almost like you are against Tottenham yourself.

I don’t think there is any fan who hopes ENIC don’t succeed just like there are no fans who hope Conte or paratici doesn’t succeed, or to use an even more extreme example actively wanted sherwood to fail( even though I guess most of us knew he would eventually go)

And at the same time seem to show no objective argument apart from the intangibles of our stadium suddenly making us competitive( and others falling away) and we some rise to the top and outside that cl/Europa ceiling we now have( for Billy to so if any further confusion). All I see is the same pattern on repeat with the added heartbreak of what could have been with Poch

If you didn't notice in my post i critcised enic, that's fine.

But it's the criticism of they need to invest more, they need to speculate, which is gonads. It's not how they work. Enic sold all their other assets to buy spurs. They have nothing left to invest. Our stadium build money mostly came from the banks in the form of loans.
Now you could say you want lewis to give spurs money to buy spurs players. But it's his money he can do with it as he wants. Pointing out that other owners do, well that is their choice. They are gambling, it's a risky strategy that leaves the club vulnerable. Levy chose a different path. Yet still improved the on the pitch performances from the sugar years.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Sorry what?

why would I be jealous? So your guess at least in my case is wrong
I’m not five years old?
I’m Walthamstow born and bred and grew up round the corner from Spurs.
My support isn’t defined by spurs being successful or not.
Rather I am frustrated.
However I am well within my rights to criticise owners who have been here over twenty years, in my opinion have used the club to their own benefit and we have seen little success on the pitch in that time.

Have they wholly used the club to their own benefit?

They are not a charity or not for profit. It is an investment that they will want to see successful. To be successful they will have to ,by default, be doing something for us as well. They have given the best possible facilities for the players to excel. They have given us the best possible facilities to watch our team play. A byproduct being increased income from us stuffing our faces and getting lubricated and from (GHod forbid) other events being held on days when we are not there. (I'm so worried about what goes on in N17 on non match days).

We are in that phase now. Increased income that will go to the team (unless you're a non believer). There is little asset growth upside now. If they extract money from the club this will be visible. Ours spending power will never be that if City Chelsea Man u etc but can be on par with Liverpool Arsenal etc...and we can be successful at those levels as they have proven, but it is a tough league, the toughest.

 

[Finney Is Back]

How much would it cost to push us to the top echelon. Chelsea and city it cost over £1bn. Enic haven't got £1bn in cash to do that. They had to sell their other interests to buy us in the first place.
Lewis might if he sold off some of his other companies, but why would he want to? To make you happy?
The banks won't lend money to a club to buy players.
So we built a stadium. It's finished now and we are seeing increased spending on players. This will be our first season with full capacity allowed. So in the summer we will see how much we can spend.

I get you and other fans are jealous of chelsea, Saudi Sportswashing Machine and city owners. You want our own sugar daddy. Great. Unitil one comes along though maybe put your jealousy to one side. Or at least stop moaning about levy because he wasn't born with oil fields.

They don’t need it…. They could dilute their stake to inject some liquidity.

 

[Lilbaz]

They don’t need it…. They could dilute their stake to inject some liquidity.

They could if someone is willing to come in with the money. It looks like levy is searching for investors.