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Daniel Levy - Chairman

thfcsteff said:
Even with the injuries we've had since November?
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I don't think a manager who trains and plays in a way that causes injuries can use said injuries as an excuse. Even being generous and pretending the injuries aren't a direct result of his management for the sake of argument, he should absolutely be sending the team out better prepared than they are.
 
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thfcsteff said:
Even with the injuries we've had since November?
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Maybe not 6th but I believe he should be placed better than 15th. If we were even hovering around 10th my take on him would be different, I would accept the injuries excuse, but I had my concerns before the injury crisis even started and i was famously told to wait until 10 games had been played and that previous season didn't count when we were talking about our defence or lack of it. So for me the injury crisis is indeed troubling but the problems were already present, they've just come straight to the fore now.
 
billyiddo said:
I don't think a manager who trains and plays in a way that causes injuries can use said injuries as an excuse. Even being generous and pretending the injuries aren't a direct result of his management for the sake of argument, he should absolutely be sending the team out better prepared than they are.
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We don’t have any management of how to play with a depleted squad. We don’t have management that plays to the strengths of the players on the pitch. The injuries are on him and his kamikaze approach to football.

Managers have figures us out and it’s easy to just pass through a non existent midfield.

He is out of his depth.
 
Robspur12 said:
I think the decision to appoint was bad enough. But that is the compounded by him sticking with the guy too long. So that is actually 2 bad decisions. Decisions that have been very costly this season. Munn should be accountable for those.
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I agree he should be held to account. He is the Chief Football Officer, and as such reportedly number two in the Hierarchy behind Levy, aka the bridge between chairman and Lange/football side. I think the over argument would be that widely speaking, the football plan is prgressing as projected (lots of young talent being nurtured for future explosion) albeit this is taking place in a way they did not expect (injuries = lots of them going to university at once and together in the first team). I further suspect that as long as relegation doesn't creep back into the matrix of threats, Ange is seen as the Gardner right now and in the summer the next manager will be brought in...unless Ange himself flames out before that. But yes, Munn should answer questions too, albeit I don't think removal would help (I know you didn't suggest that).
 
thfcsteff said:
I agree he should be held to account. He is the Chief Football Officer, and as such reportedly number two in the Hierarchy behind Levy, aka the bridge between chairman and Lange/football side. I think the over argument would be that widely speaking, the football plan is prgressing as projected (lots of young talent being nurtured for future explosion) albeit this is taking place in a way they did not expect (injuries = lots of them going to university at once and together in the first team). I further suspect that as long as relegation doesn't creep back into the matrix of threats, Ange is seen as the Gardner right now and in the summer the next manager will be brought in...unless Ange himself flames out before that. But yes, Munn should answer questions too, albeit I don't think removal would help (I know you didn't suggest that).
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When you read Munn's bio Steff, there is nothing really there suggesting he has much European football experience. It's hard to know who is identifying players for recruitment. Hopefully it's a team of scouts, and data analysts with input from Munn and Ange. But seeing the crossover in their football experience, it is very likely Munn was the person who suggested Ange.
 
No idea of what the structure is, but I can't really blame whoever appointed or approved ange.
He was a punt, a temporary appointment that would see us begin a structural rebuild.
At no point did I ever think he would be here longer 3 seasons, at the very, very best.
He's the guy that clears the ground and prepares the foundations before the builders come in.
We are in a much better place than we were when he joined us, we are now ready for the next stage.
 
glasgowspur said:
No idea of what the structure is, but I can't really blame whoever appointed or approved ange.
He was a punt, a temporary appointment that would see us begin a structural rebuild.
At no point did I ever think he would be here longer 3 seasons, at the very, very best.
He's the guy that clears the ground and prepares the foundations before the builders come in.
We are in a much better place than we were when he joined us, we are now ready for the next stage.
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You see I don't get that if that was the strategy. Don't you bring in the guy who is going to rebuild your team straight away after you've cleared the decks? Seems to be how other clubs operate. I think Ange was an appointment where we were struggling to identify a replacement for Conte; Munn had seen Ange's work elsewhere and put him forward as we wanted an attack minded coach. For me, on paper, Munn lacks sufficient experience of European football so I am not surprised he went for someone he knew from outside it. I think Ange was the long term appointment.
 
thfcsteff said:
Munn is the 'new Paratici' (even though rumours abound of Paratici still lurking)...
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I don't think that is entirely accurate- Paratici is more of a DoF type, a transfer wheeler & dealer, Munn is a boardroom level role organising the structure across all footballing departments. Probably would have put in place the data and scouting/transfer department (with input from Lange) and will presumably be overseeing the medical department improvements that appear to be ongoing. He seems more involved in setting up the various specialised departments as opposed to undertaking the minutiae of what those departments specialise in.
 
Robspur12 said:
There were suggestions that that was Paratici who put the data team in place rather than Munn.
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I think when Paratici came in the scouting and transfer department was practically non existent so he would have been involved in beefing things up initially during that period where he was directly employed, but the switch to data and analyitics didn't really come about until later
 
Robspur12 said:
You see I don't get that if that was the strategy. Don't you bring in the guy who is going to rebuild your team straight away after you've cleared the decks? Seems to be how other clubs operate. I think Ange was an appointment where we were struggling to identify a replacement for Conte; Munn had seen Ange's work elsewhere and put him forward as we wanted an attack minded coach. For me, on paper, Munn lacks sufficient experience of European football so I am not surprised he went for someone he knew from outside it. I think Ange was the long term appointment.
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I think you answer your question there.
We could not find our attract a suitable replacement.
Rightly or wrongly we are not renowned for giving managers time, with the clear out and rebuild needed the loss of Harry kane and the general air of unrest around the club after the debacle of the last few years was there an obvious choice that we were confident we could not only appoint but that the fans would be happy with?
Hence ange and the DNA press.
League position this year is what I would have expected last season tbh, and last seasons league finish would been seen as progress this season.
Top 8 in the league,
EL knock out stage,
semi final of LC, knocked out by Liverpool,
Knocked out FA Cup by villa,
Beat utd and city in the cups.
For a club and squad in the state we were in when ange joined that would not be a bad season for the second season. Hasn't turned out that way in the league obviously.
I really think it is under appreciated how bad a state we were in.
There is no magic answer out there for us, just as there isn't for villa or Saudi Sportswashing Machine. It's one reason that I'm wary of the rush for a new manager, the expectations are already too high.
All we need is, insert manager du jour here, someone to player x formation or y tactics, play wingers, play the youth.
Well no, it's not that simple, it never has been.
Looks like we need a new manager, but the fans need to be willing to acknowledge where we are and accept some more growing pains along the way.
Not convinced our fanbase has that patience.
 
glasgowspur said:
I think you answer your question there.
We could not find our attract a suitable replacement.
Rightly or wrongly we are not renowned for giving managers time, with the clear out and rebuild needed the loss of Harry kane and the general air of unrest around the club after the debacle of the last few years was there an obvious choice that we were confident we could not only appoint but that the fans would be happy with?
Hence ange and the DNA press.
League position this year is what I would have expected last season tbh, and last seasons league finish would been seen as progress this season.
Top 8 in the league,
EL knock out stage,
semi final of LC, knocked out by Liverpool,
Knocked out FA Cup by villa,
Beat utd and city in the cups.
For a club and squad in the state we were in when ange joined that would not be a bad season for the second season. Hasn't turned out that way in the league obviously.
I really think it is under appreciated how bad a state we were in.
There is no magic answer out there for us, just as there isn't for villa or Saudi Sportswashing Machine. It's one reason that I'm wary of the rush for a new manager, the expectations are already too high.
All we need is, insert manager du jour here, someone to player x formation or y tactics, play wingers, play the youth.
Well no, it's not that simple, it never has been.
Looks like we need a new manager, but the fans need to be willing to acknowledge where we are and accept some more growing pains along the way.
Not convinced our fanbase has that patience.
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I think if the fan base can see what the manager is trying to do, many of us will give the manager time. Can't speak for all of course. On a personal level I wanted more time for Poch and Nuno. I liked Jose but could see it was not working (but wanted him to manage the cup final). I thought from the time of their appointment that AVB and Conte were wrong, for different reasons. As for Ange I liked him initially and hoped he would tweak his system to make us less open. Once he failed to do that, I realized that he wasn't going to work.

We were in a bad state when Conte left us and we are in a much better state player wise now. But that's been down to the recruitment team. Not sure how much Ange contributed to it but I'll give him the benefit on that. On the pitch though, we've been as bad as during Conte's second season. And the manager appears unwilling or incapable of changing it. In those circumstances , time was not going to change that.

When I think back, we treated Jol shabbily, Poch shabbily given what he achieved, the less said about Nuno's treatment the better but weirdly Ange has been allowed to carry on taking us in downward trajectory for far too long.
 
billyiddo said:
I don't think that is entirely accurate- Paratici is more of a DoF type, a transfer wheeler & dealer, Munn is a boardroom level role organising the structure across all footballing departments. Probably would have put in place the data and scouting/transfer department (with input from Lange) and will presumably be overseeing the medical department improvements that appear to be ongoing. He seems more involved in setting up the various specialised departments as opposed to undertaking the minutiae of what those departments specialise in.
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I mistyped.
I meant Lange, not Munn.
This has been a long, long fudging day and a sad one...
 
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