Daniel Levy - Chairman

[Bedfordspurs]

That and not having to go to work.

All the pool fans I know work
Most live down south and have real jobs
The ones I met in Liverpool when my wife went to Uni there were sound too... they went to games
I also know a Liverpool fan who was held at knifepoint in Istanbul by another Pool fan to steal his ticket for the CL final. He is a top bloke
But it’s extremes and prejudice and groups and the collective that makes it what it is...

 

[Bedfordspurs]

At the very least, the club salvages PR - in time, this crisis will pass, but the memory of those who took care of their staff and who didn't will stay. If nothing else, because football is an adversarial industry by nature (being a sport), and bad PR will survive longer than it will elsewhere.

The staff are angry. The fans are angry. The media is angry. The players are angry. The government is angry.

Enough of that will spook the sponsors - and, more importantly, the potential sponsors we're hoping to bring in for the stadium and future kit deals.

Okay, the club has zero social conscience in a time of crisis. But at least think on PR lines - what is it worth to top up the wages of 220 ordinary people who keep the club running for a couple months, versus the snowballing PR effect that is underway?

I don't believe the club expected the reaction to its statement - Levy was using it to shoot all over the place, after all, from pressuring the players to announcing the furlough to pre-emptively getting his excuses in as to why he won't spend a dime in the summer.

That one line in it was going to generate this sort of PR wasn't something he was counting on, I expect.

But there's still time to rectify it. In fact, if you spin it right - listened to the fans, listened to our Trust, etc. - you may come out ahead.

Well the club has won awards for its social conscience for its work in the community
It’s also letting propel use the ground for “relief work” currently
It’s also making sure it’s staff get paid something at this time to keep their roofs over the heads
But that’s how I can spin the position positively for the club if chose so
As I’ve said loads before more clubs would do it if they made money and paid tax... I think it’s a much much harder argument for clubs to use the system if they haven’t actually contributed. Hence why they can make the comments they have
The play thing clubs have chosen to say nothing changes... the clubs with the incidental owners have chosen to delay the problem
The clubs that make no money and are heavily in debt are screwed so are towing the line currently

 

[DubaiSpur]

A guarantee is something the guarantor can back - they can't make a conditionless guarantee like this because it might be out of their hands.

If, for example, in a month the govt announces a 80% tax on betting firms (including witholding taxes) to pay for the costs of this pandemic, they won't be able to make good on their guarantee. Which means it isn't a guarantee, it's empty words.

That's why sensible people running sensible businesses use phrases like "the company will endeavour to...." Or "all attempts will be made...."

Right. Well, to go back to one of the first examples, Stoke City have guaranteed it - no weasel words, simply 'we will pay our staff until August, and no jobs will be lost'.

Let's see how shaky their conditionless guarantee is at the end of that period.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Well the flub has won awards for its social conscience for its work in the community
It’s also letting propel use the ground for “relief work” currently
It’s also making sure it’s staff get paid something at this time to keep their roofs over the heads
But that’s how I can spin the position positively for the club if chose so
As I’ve said loads before more clubs would do it if they made money and paid tax... I think it’s a much much harder argument for clubs to use the system if they haven’t actually contributed. Hence why they can make the comments they have
The play thing clubs have chosen to say nothing changes... the clubs with the incidental owners have chosen to delay the problem
The clubs that make no money and are heavily in debt are screwed so are towing the line currently

That's the thing - I can counter your points with my own about how it costs the club nothing to let the stadium be used, how we're screwing our staff harder than the other PL clubs are, and so on. What's inarguable is that the PR disaster has already happened, and is happening - whatever Levy would like to argue. It isn't some hypothetical that will happen if we do this - it's happening now.

It's better to stem it now for practical reasons, if nothing else.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That's the thing - I can counter your points with my own about how it costs the club nothing to let the stadium be used, how we're screwing our staff harder than the other PL clubs are, and so on. What's inarguable is that the PR disaster has already happened, and is happening - whatever Levy would like to argue. It isn't some hypothetical that will happen if we do this - it's happening now.

It's better to stem it now for practical reasons, if nothing else.

What’s happening now though?
We’re keeping money in the pockets of our workers who aren’t working

 

[DubaiSpur]

What’s happening now though?
We’re keeping money in the pockets of our workers who aren’t working

Other than being upset and worried over their loss of wages, employees are annoyed there was no consultation process and that, so far, Tottenham staff are seemingly being treated differently to employees at other clubs.
Tottenham employees who have not been furloughed fear their workload will increase because of around half of the 550 staff being furloughed and that they will now be asked to do more while being paid less.
One source told Telegraph Sport: “People are angry and upset. Many are worried about their mortgages and other bills. Other clubs have furloughed staff, but at least they have agreed to top up their wages.
“We are still yet to hear whether or not the players and the manager will take wage cuts, and there has been no indication people will ever get the money back if the season can resume.
“This has left a bad feeling that will linger with a lot of people for a long time after the coronavirus has hopefully passed.”

We're doing plenty, mate. None of it good when compared to our peers.

 

[scaramanga]

Right. Well, to go back to one of the first examples, Stoke City have guaranteed it - no weasel words, simply 'we will pay our staff until August, and no jobs will be lost'.

Let's see how shaky their conditionless guarantee is at the end of that period.

And I'm saying things may happen in the interim that are out of their control and force them to break that promise.

If things don't pan out to do that, it doesn't make their promise more sensible, they just lucked out.

 

[billyiddo]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...push-ahead-20-per-cent-wage-cuts-furloughing/

Here you go, mate. Relevant bits -

'Despite first receiving the news by email just half-an-hour before last week’s public announcement, employees had hoped that the subsequent criticism may have persuaded Levy to back out of the cuts.


There was also a hope that he may modify the original plans and agree to top up the wages of furloughed staff, as Norwich City, Bournemouth and Liverpool have done.


The Tottenham Hotspur Supporters’ Trust approached the board to suggest that Levy and the club’s players could pay back the money employees will lose.


But the second email indicates Levy is pushing ahead with his original plan for all non-playing staff, including him and the rest of the board, to earn 20 per cent less than their normal wage for the next two months.


There is no mention of a deferral or the money they give up for April and May ever being paid back to employees if the season restarts and is completed.


Other than being upset and worried over their loss of wages, employees are annoyed there was no consultation process and that, so far, Tottenham staff are seemingly being treated differently to employees at other clubs.

There is also disappointment that, almost a week after the original announcement, Mourinho and his players have made no comment about the cuts or their own situations.


Premier League players have been holding discussions over a proposed 30 per cent wage cut and many managers could follow suit once the situation regarding the salaries of their squads becomes clearer.


Tottenham employees who have not been furloughed fear their workload will increase because of around half of the 550 staff being furloughed and that they will now be asked to do more while being paid less.


One source told Telegraph Sport: “People are angry and upset. Many are worried about their mortgages and other bills. Other clubs have furloughed staff, but at least they have agreed to top up their wages.


“We are still yet to hear whether or not the players and the manager will take wage cuts, and there has been no indication people will ever get the money back if the season can resume.


“This has left a bad feeling that will linger with a lot of people for a long time after the coronavirus has hopefully passed.”

Anyone picking up 80% of their wages during a lockdown is in a good position financially.

I'm self employed, my place of work has remained open but as the government are paying 80% or up to 2.5k per month of our wages if we are not working, myself and the overwhelming majority of my companies workforce has decided to stay at home and take the 'hit' - my friends that are employed and that have been furloughed are all loving it and i believe most people if given the choice would do the same. My girlfriend is able to work from home but would switch in an instant if she was allowed. So i don't see any reason to see furloughed staff as hard done by.

 

[scaramanga]

Anyone picking up 80% of their wages during a lockdown is in a good position financially.

And anyone living life at <25% debt cover only has themselves to blame.

 

[DubaiSpur]

And I'm saying things may happen in the interim that are out of their control and force them to break that promise.

If things don't pan out to do that, it doesn't make their promise more sensible, they just lucked out.

So, essentially, as I was saying...

When this crisis passes and clubs actually have stuck to their words and paid their staff despite the crisis, what will you say next?

That it 'could theoretically have been rendered impossible in some alternate timeline, so they're still wrong to provide guarantees'?

...that's what you're going with.

Do you live your life according to that nonsensical philosophy? Do you never agree to meetings because 'things may happen in the interim that are out of my control'? Never agree contracts because an Act of GHod may burn down your factory and slay all your employees? Never take the missus anywhere because there's no guarantee you will actually get there, given the risk of being violently accosted by the remaining members of Monty Python re-enacting the parrot sketch on Wandsworth Common?

I mean, as I understand it you run or help run a company of some sort, scara. I refuse to believe you follow something as nonsensical as this in your professional or personal life, or that you've never encountered someone following through on a promise that they aren't absolutely sure they can keep down to the last vibrating electron. Reasonable assumptions are a thing.

 

[Baleforce]

Other than being upset and worried over their loss of wages, employees are annoyed there was no consultation process and that, so far, Tottenham staff are seemingly being treated differently to employees at other clubs.
Tottenham employees who have not been furloughed fear their workload will increase because of around half of the 550 staff being furloughed and that they will now be asked to do more while being paid less.
One source told Telegraph Sport: “People are angry and upset. Many are worried about their mortgages and other bills. Other clubs have furloughed staff, but at least they have agreed to top up their wages.
“We are still yet to hear whether or not the players and the manager will take wage cuts, and there has been no indication people will ever get the money back if the season can resume.
“This has left a bad feeling that will linger with a lot of people for a long time after the coronavirus has hopefully passed.”

We're doing plenty, mate. None of it good when compared to our peers.

You don't seem to be comparing us to our peers, you are comparing us to football clubs bankrolled by wealthy individuals, debt, hedge funds or the generosity of charitable donations from their fanbase, we are none of those things.

 

[DubaiSpur]

You don't seem to be comparing us to our peers, you are comparing us to football clubs bankrolled by wealthy individuals, debt, hedge funds or the generosity of charitable donations from their fanbase, we are none of those things.

Are Arsenal our peers? They run on the same model we do, after all - and their owner is as utterly useless a waste of space as ours is.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/s...avirus-UK-Arsenal-vow-pay-staff-April-30.html

They're paying their staff in full until the end of the month. Even them.

The f*cking Goons are doing the right thing here. We are not.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Oh, we did have a ticket increase confirmed, but the club probably thought they were being generous by pinning it below inflation.

I'm intimating that the club might possibly revisit that generosity in light of all this - on top of the furlough nonsense. Don't count it out, is all.

As for Liverpool, well, the point is, they're run much better than we are now - on and off the pitch.

And even if it all goes tits up... in 10 years of FSG ownership, on the field, they've got a Champions League trophy to show for it, and will have a PL title as well. Off the field, they paid their staff through this crisis, and I doubt the U-turn they made will do any lasting damage to their self-image and perception as a club that gives a damn about ordinary folk (whether or not it's deserved).

We've had 20 years of ENIC - twice as long. On the field, we have one League Cup to show for it. Off the field, we're gleefully stiffing our staff and the taxpayer while Levy gets his excuses in early for why that is likely to continue - morally wrong, and a PR disaster on all fronts.

I'd say they got the infinitely better deal with their owners, in a way we just haven't with that useless tax-exile lump who owns us.

'Stiffing the staff and tax payer'......er the club is a tax payer? One of only a few.

We've paid approx £45m in tax over our last two accounting periods......minus the cost of 3 months furlough = ? but more than likely still contributing (net) much more than a club that takes out nothing but pays in nothing. (year after year)

Most people on 80% sitting at home doing nothing are saying they have more money than when going to work every day.

The ideal scenario would be the players, manger, directors take a cut to cover the 80% pay the non-playing staff need and any surplus go to projects the club wish to help within the local community. All kept in house .

 

[Glenda's Legs]

At the very least, the club salvages PR - in time, this crisis will pass, but the memory of those who took care of their staff and who didn't will stay. If nothing else, because football is an adversarial industry by nature (being a sport), and bad PR will survive longer than it will elsewhere.

The staff are angry. The fans are angry. The media is angry. The players are angry. The government is angry.

Enough of that will spook the sponsors - and, more importantly, the potential sponsors we're hoping to bring in for the stadium and future kit deals.

Okay, the club has zero social conscience in a time of crisis. But at least think on PR lines - what is it worth to top up the wages of 220 ordinary people who keep the club running for a couple months, versus the snowballing PR effect that is underway?

I don't believe the club expected the reaction to its statement - Levy was using it to shoot all over the place, after all, from pressuring the players to announcing the furlough to pre-emptively getting his excuses in as to why he won't spend a dime in the summer.

That one line in it was going to generate this sort of PR wasn't something he was counting on, I expect.

But there's still time to rectify it. In fact, if you spin it right - listened to the fans, listened to our Trust, etc. - you may come out ahead.

It's far too early to pass judgement on who has taken care of their staff and who hasn't, or what the "right" thing is or isn't.
Let's see how things pan out over the course of the next 12 months. It could be that in taking this action now, Levy will be able to keep staff employed much longer than if he did nothing and paid them all 100% now, and without any government furlough. If and when matches start it's likely they will be behind closed doors. How many clubs will be keeping their ticket office staff employed, or their matchday staff? Maybe getting paid 20% less for 6 months (random period), with pension contributions, accrued holiday pay and other benefits will be better than getting paid 100% for 3 months.

The PR hasn't been great of course but I'm not sure it's irreparable. I believe it is something that can be weathered over the course of this crisis.

 

[billyiddo]

'Stiffing the staff and tax payer'......er the club is a tax payer? One of only a few.

We've paid approx £45m in tax over our last two accounting periods......minus the cost of 3 months furlough = ? but more than likely still contributing (net) much more than a club that takes out nothing but pays in nothing. (year after year)

Most people on 80% sitting at home doing nothing are saying they have more money than when going to work every day.

The ideal scenario would be the players, manger, directors take a cut to cover the 80% pay the non-playing staff need and any surplus go to projects the club wish to help within the local community. All kept in house .

Imagine being able to buy all your working time back for only 20% of your wage - deal of the century

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

400%
Said it before
I hate pool but If we had fans that believed in the club the way they do we would do better
It’s a cult, like Saudi Sportswashing Machine fans too
It’s why they wear the shirts all the time as fashion items. It’s a world of your one of us
It’s also why their the most hated team in the country because of it. But it works for them

So whats Newcastles excuse for not doing better? The have the fans, the cult, the belief.

 

[scaramanga]

So, essentially, as I was saying...



...that's what you're going with.

Do you live your life according to that nonsensical philosophy? Do you never agree to meetings because 'things may happen in the interim that are out of my control'? Never agree contracts because an Act of GHod may burn down your factory and slay all your employees? Never take the missus anywhere because there's no guarantee you will actually get there, given the risk of being violently accosted by the remaining members of Monty Python re-enacting the parrot sketch on Wandsworth Common?

I mean, as I understand it you run or help run a company of some sort, scara. I refuse to believe you follow something as nonsensical as this in your professional or personal life, or that you've never encountered someone following through on a promise that they aren't absolutely sure they can keep down to the last vibrating electron. Reasonable assumptions are a thing.

I certainly don't make promises to employees about subjects like redundancy unless I can guarantee it. You can't treat people's livelihoods like that.

When making redundancies in the past I've been asked by key staff if their jobs were safe and, as much as I wanted to reassure them, the best I could do is tell them they'd be last out of the door with the directors if it came to it.

People make life choices based on guarantees from employers, often costly ones. You can't make those promises whilst any events are out of your control.

 

[Grays_1890]

That's the thing - I can counter your points with my own about how it costs the club nothing to let the stadium be used, how we're screwing our staff harder than the other PL clubs are, and so on. What's inarguable is that the PR disaster has already happened, and is happening - whatever Levy would like to argue. It isn't some hypothetical that will happen if we do this - it's happening now.

It's better to stem it now for practical reasons, if nothing else.

who cares about the PR

Football is morally bankrupt we are part of that.

If you want to live in a fantasy land where it isn’t you have the choice to Jack it in.

 

[Grays_1890]

'Stiffing the staff and tax payer'......er the club is a tax payer? One of only a few.

We've paid approx £45m in tax over our last two accounting periods......minus the cost of 3 months furlough = ? but more than likely still contributing (net) much more than a club that takes out nothing but pays in nothing. (year after year)

Most people on 80% sitting at home doing nothing are saying they have more money than when going to work every day.

The ideal scenario would be the players, manger, directors take a cut to cover the 80% pay the non-playing staff need and any surplus go to projects the club wish to help within the local community. All kept in house .

I said that last week, we paid in huge amounts of corporate tax, our staff including players contribute millions in tax.

We now go back to that system and use it where needed, it’s why anyone pays tax or corporation tax.

 

[Baleforce]

Are Arsenal our peers? They run on the same model we do, after all - and their owner is as utterly useless a waste of space as ours is.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/s...avirus-UK-Arsenal-vow-pay-staff-April-30.html

They're paying their staff in full until the end of the month. Even them.

The f*cking Goons are doing the right thing here. We are not.

I don’t think their model is the same as ours, they are another foreign owned vehicle of reputation washing at best, at worst being set up for an asset strip.