Chelsea Post-Match Discussion Thread

[Rob]

I find it inexplicable because the entire left side of the pitch is wide open. I don't get why he decided to do that maneuver. It looks like our forward players are making runs, expecting a pass. There are risks and there are calculated risks. Sometimes safety is the better option and it does not make us Stoke.

I'm torn on this mate - my initial thought was the same as yours, there's a time and a place for that sort of thing and (GHod bless Timmy Atouba) it isn't when you're the last person before the keeper. However, if you look at the video again, you'll see that nobody in front of him is making themselves available, he really doesn't seem to have a simple pass on, which is why he tries to buy himself some more time....and possibly with a hint of overconfidence after his zidanesque manoeuvre last week. The biggest mistake he made, even bearing in mind that he had a split second to make it, was where he then played the ball blindly. You may say hindsight is a wonderful thing if I suggest I'd have preferred him to kick it out of touch for a corner, but it's a basic that you don't play the ball towards your own area without looking, you play it into one of the other less dangerous zones like into touch or out to the channel - it's the same basic principal as never playing a back pass at goal, always aim wide just in case.

 

[Stiff_Swede]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

That's what Chelsea do though. They did exactly the same to Fulham last weekend.

Let teams have the ball in positions they can't do any harm, then hit them when they get themselves out of shape.

It's horrible negative football, but Chelsea deliberately gave us that possession because they knew we'd do nothing with it except ultimately get ourselves into a mess.

Exactly we never threatened Chelsea, they just let us play the ball around.

 

[Rob]

It's safe to say Kaboul had a mare yesterday. What Jan did to gave a mare in a few seconds, Kabould did for the duration of his time on the pitch. Never had any understanding positionally with Dawson, stopping to tie his laces, and giving up the chase for the ball. Most importantly he spent the game next to our opponents biggest goal threat and seemingly continued to ignore the fact he was even there!! One of our worst performers yesterday and nothing that can be put down to a lack of fitness or match sharpness, simply poor discipline. Shame, we need him back to his best.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

That's what Chelsea do though. They did exactly the same to Fulham last weekend.

Let teams have the ball in positions they can't do any harm, then hit them when they get themselves out of shape.

It's horrible negative football, but Chelsea deliberately gave us that possession because they knew we'd do nothing with it except ultimately get ourselves into a mess.

YTS Tim was well and truly out thought on this one and I'm not sure Mourinho even had to take a second thought to do so.

Did Timmeh even see a Chelsea match before yesterday?

If so, why did he park the bus/shell/pack the middle/whatever you want to call it so high up the pitch? Chelsea are masters of letting you have the ball then breaking quickly into the space left behind. It was utter suicide.

This is even worse when you offer no attacking threat whatsoever because your only goal scorer in the team is in the channels, your only effective winger is playing striker (as much as I like Lennon, tickling the ball at the goal is a rasping shot by his standards), and both your makeshift wingers are part of the central block. This complete lack of a threat allowed Mourinho to put an extra passer in midfield and completely take us apart.

Now I expect poor tactics from Timmeh, it's hardly his strong point. But to then let that team not be motivated - when he himself claims to have taken his inspiration from the old school of anti-intellectual man motivators - that's just criminal.

 

[Rossi22]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Chelsea didn't take us apart, Vertonghen and Michael Oliver did. From minutes 4 through 56, I can't recall them even getting anywhere near our goal.

 

[spurs' magna carter]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Chelsea didn't take us apart, Vertonghen and Michael Oliver did. From minutes 4 through 56, I can't recall them even getting anywhere near our goal.

Exactly.

Personally thought Sherwood set up the team quite well, it was unusual but it worked until the truth about our players' character was well and truly revealed.

I think Sherwood is gone but to start desperately finding any flaw in his managerial abilities in pointless, all managers have certain flaws, just look at the Mourinho's last season at Madrid.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

We didn't look like scoring and they did.

Outside of the first 5 minutes we looked just as likely to score as Chelsea did - until we gifted them a head start and a man advantage - which cannot be put down to the tactics.

 

[Rossi22]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Exactly.

Personally thought Sherwood set up the team quite well, it was unusual but it worked until the truth about our players' character was well and truly revealed.

I think Sherwood is gone but to start desperately finding any flaw in his managerial abilities in pointless, all managers have certain flaws, just look at the Mourinho's last season at Madrid.

It's the kind of side Mourinho would roll with away to a top side and he'd have people hanging from the end of his **** afterwards. I really like how flexible Tim is tactically, with AVB you always knew it was going to be the same 4231 inverted winger/isolated striker setup no matter what.

 

[Rob]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Outside of the first 5 minutes we looked just as unlikely to score as Chelsea did - until we gifted them a head start and a man advantage - which cannot be put down to the tactics.

Put it this way and I'd agree

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Chelsea didn't take us apart, Vertonghen and Michael Oliver did. From minutes 4 through 56, I can't recall them even getting anywhere near our goal.

Did you miss the two chances right at the start of the second half? We were just in the precise trap Mourinho wanted - I know that to the untrained eye it looks like we're doing OK, passing the ball around the halfway line, but that's just how they play - it's the trap they set for everyone.

 

[Rob]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Plus passing it around the halfway line is a tactic we've finely tuned in the last couple of years. Keeping the ball for the sake of keeping the ball.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

It's the kind of side Mourinho would roll with away to a top side and he'd have people hanging from the end of his **** afterwards. I really like how flexible Tim is tactically, with AVB you always knew it was going to be the same 4231 inverted winger/isolated striker setup no matter what.

Trying everything isn't being flexible, it's just not knowing what will/might work.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Did you miss the two chances right at the start of the second half? We were just in the precise trap Mourinho wanted - I know that to the untrained eye it looks like we're doing OK, passing the ball around the halfway line, but that's just how they play - it's the trap they set for everyone.

You seem like a bright fella but I'm not sure your posts around football could be any more condescending if you tried.

I'll let you in on a secret. You aren't a tactical genius and you don't know some big secret that everyone else on "the outside" has no idea about.

 

[Rob]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

You seem like a bright fella but I'm not sure your posts around football could be any more condescending if you tried.

I'll let you in on a secret. You aren't a tactical genius and you don't know some big secret that everyone else on "the outside" has no idea about.

No, he's a football fan who's posting his opinion.

Nice example that you know what condescending means though...

 

[Hashegotthesackyet?]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

No, he's a football fan who's posting his opinion.

Nice example that you know what condescending means though...

http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-bobs-got-a-brown-nose.png

 

[DeanoAustin]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

No, he's a football fan who's posting his opinion.

Nice example that you know what condescending means though...

Yep an his opinion is that anyone who thinks we were doing okay yesterday until the first goal has an untrained eye. The inference therefore is that he has a trained eye and sees things that most people don't. To me that's pseudo intellectualism at its finest.

Anyway, as entitled as you are to your opinion about about football and about me, I'm sure scaramanga can defend himself if he so wishes.

 

[Rob]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Yep an his opinion is that anyone who thinks we were doing okay yesterday until the first goal has an untrained eye. The inference therefore is that he has a trained eye and sees things that most people don't. To me that's pseudo intellectualism at its finest.

Anyway, as entitled as you are to your opinion about about football and about me, I'm sure scaramanga can defend himself if he so wishes.

I don't have an opinion on you mate, I was only pointing out that if you wanted to call someone condescending then maybe you shouldn't have started your next sentence with "I'll let you into a little secret"

I see what you're saying about the whole untrained eye thing but we must all have sat there (or stood) watching a game and thought to ourselves that we can see what's going wrong so why can't the boss see it?!

To be honest I don't totally agree with scara and the sentiment that Jose conveyed after the game that they were comfortable the whole time. If, as scara suggests, the whole thing was Mourinho's game plan all along then he wouldn't have been forced into making a substitution as early as half time. Instead he saw where his side were failing and made a tactical and personnel change. Whether we would have weathered the storm like we did in the first half and counter-adapted we'll never know.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

You seem like a bright fella but I'm not sure your posts around football could be any more condescending if you tried.

I'll let you in on a secret. You aren't a tactical genius and you don't know some big secret that everyone else on "the outside" has no idea about.

I don't claim to be a tactical genius - one doesn't have to watch a lot of football to recognise Mourinho's brand of catenaccio.

As for my opinion of other posters, seeing as I know very few of them in person, I can only go by what they post here. In which case, I'd say I'm being pretty generous in my assumptions of their understanding.

 

[Rob]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I don't claim to be a tactical genius - one doesn't have to watch a lot of football to recognise Mourinho's brand of catenaccio.

As for my opinion of other posters, seeing as I know very few of them in person, I can only go by what they post here. In which case, I'd say I'm being pretty generous in my assumptions of their understanding.

Now THAT'S condescending

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I don't have an opinion on you mate, I was only pointing out that if you wanted to call someone condescending then maybe you shouldn't have started your next sentence with "I'll let you into a little secret"

I see what you're saying about the whole untrained eye thing but we must all have sat there (or stood) watching a game and thought to ourselves that we can see what's going wrong so why can't the boss see it?!

To be honest I don't totally agree with scara and the sentiment that Jose conveyed after the game that they were comfortable the whole time. If, as scara suggests, the whole thing was Mourinho's game plan all along then he wouldn't have been forced into making a substitution as early as half time. Instead he saw where his side were failing and made a tactical and personnel change. Whether we would have weathered the storm like we did in the first half and counter-adapted we'll never know.

I don't think Jose (I'll call him that because his surname sends my autocorrect mental) was forced into doing anything.

He's a naturally cautious manager up against a new opponent, with no style to speak of, whose team has been playing very erratically, with a striker on fire and who may or may not have his team really fired up for the match.

So he puts out a conservative team that he knows is unlikely to concede that can be easily changed in a number of ways. Knowing that Timmeh isn't big on modern management techniques it was likely that we'd be tired in the second half and that 45 minutes would be plenty to beat us.

In fact, I think that if we had him at all worried he'd have made a change in the first half.