Berahino in January for £25m?

[StephenH]

Only thing peace done wrong for wba was not try to bend levy over with a counter offer late in the day, 28m plus fazio plus Townsend on loan for a year (with option to buy for £X) type of thing.

And the release that to the press.

They were offered according some websites but I doubt £28m was in equation

 

[milo]

So what do you call Sunderland's for Kaboul? And Palace's for Connor?

If you want an EPL player, you pay over the odds. That is a fact of life and no amount of false modesty can change that fact!

Levy knew that; if he does not want to pay over the odds, he should have gone to the continent; but after burning his fingers with Soldado, Lamela et al, he was too scared to go down that route....

I disagree with that. There are still PL bargains around. For example, I think that we got Trippier for a very good price.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

I just don't get the dislike towards Levy as I find it irrational and based on little fact. By all means criticise someone on fact, or based on sound rational judgment.

What I find irrational is this groupie reaction to the Levy critics when no-one (well maybe with the exception of @DubaiSpur ) who has done so, has shown any personal dislike towards the man. I am sure that those who have not toed the "it's all WBA fault" phalanx point of view, applaud Levy for many things... the stadium, the academy, our financial stability and relative success etc I certainly do.

The issue relates solely to one thing, and one thing only: the Berahino failed transfer and its repercussions. And every sound and rational judgement points to the fact that, for whatever amount of success he had previously, he simply f****d this up. And he did so because he thought he could out bluff Peace but miscalculated badly. It's not as if the guy does not expect and exact accountability from his managers based on nothing else other than their results; so what is wrong for the boot to be placed on the other shoe for once?

There is another thing that nobody has commented upon... why do we have a deadline day drama practically every year... Berahino; Bale two years ago; Moutinho the year before that; Modric; Lloris; Berbatov to Man Utd.... No other club I can recollect has such a record. My feeling (and admittedly it is speculation - but then since when has a message board banned that) is that Levy gets a rush from the excitement of big name tough deadline day dealings. He is not a machine - no human being is. We all have our tics and irrational behaviours. I think he needs the adrenalin. It has admittedly worked handsomely when we have sold our players but unfortunately we have had our fingers burnt on key purchases... Moutinho and Berahino being excellent examples who would almost certainly have made a major impact.

 

[parklane1]

haha thats a good one

Not for those who use any stick to beat Levy with.

 

[billyiddo]

Less of the 'camps' and 'brigades' please chaps

 

[parklane1]

West Brom valued Berahino at 25 mill and didnt want to budge. Spurs didnt want to pay 25 mill. Simples

I just hope the black box can spit out a few new names by January because im not sure we will be back in for this kid.

And who has been shouting their mouths off about this all the way through, Peace that is who. He wanted to come across as someone who cares but to most fans he has come across as a pillock.

 

[parklane1]

Ha! You say it's pro-Levy, I think it is just the way it is. No harm no foul, all I am trying to do is put forward another interpretation of the events. It makes no rational sense that Levy would intentionally be the way that people are assuming, yet for some reason people choose to believe it. I find it bizarre!

Indeed its nothing to do with the pro Levy camp, what it is though is the same ( mostly) fans who have a dislike of Levy and will use any reason ( imaginary or real) to have a dig.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

I disagree with that. There are still PL bargains around. For example, I think that we got Trippier for a very good price.

Oh come on! That is a ridiculous example. The guy had a buy-out clause which was ludicrously low; we got there first and activated it. How can you even start to compare the Trippier transfer - or even Toby where something reasonably similar was in place - with Berahino??

 

[milo]

Oh come on! That is a ridiculous example. The guy had a buy-out clause which was ludicrously low; we got there first and activated it. How can you even start to compare the Trippier transfer - or even Toby where something reasonably similar was in place - with Berahino??

I wasn't comparing him to Berahino. I was replying to you saying that you have to over pay to secure Premier League transfers, I don't agree.

 

[billyiddo]

Lennon and Cech are two examples from this window of good bargains in prem > prem deals

Delph went quite cheaply as well didn't he?

Sigurdsson to us and then back again to Swansea, another.

Seems there's no hard and fast rule that buying from the Prem = overpaying

 

[Maltese Falcon]

I wasn't comparing him to Berahino. I was replying to you saying that you have to over pay to secure Premier League transfers, I don't agree.

Fair enough (and apologies for the "ridiculous example" comment).

Would you therefore agree with:

If you want an EPL player, you pay over the odds unless that player has a buyout clause or is one that his club are actively trying to move on (and even then it's not uncommon for you to still pay over the odds for him)

 

[parklane1]

I think he was naïve to think he could buy a top English player without going over the odds.

Well Stop! Hammer time but for me we did offer over the odds.

 

[Robspur12]

Mate, we bid 12M to get the chance to talk to him, the bid was accepted, we talked, player chose otherwise (predetermined or not)

How do you know this for sure? If we issue a word of criticism against levy's transfer dealings we are told it is based on speculation so the same should be applied the other way round.

 

[milo]

Fair enough (and apologies for the "ridiculous example" comment).

Would you therefore agree with:

If you want an EPL player, you pay over the odds unless that player has a buyout clause or is one that his club are actively trying to move on (and even then it's not uncommon for you to still pay over the odds for him)

I don't think that it is as clear cut as that. I think that this summer was a freak market because of the money coming in from the next TV deal meant that the smaller clubs did not need to sell and because a handful of clubs massively over paid to secure their targets. Over time, I would expect it to calm down a bit because the increased revenue will get spent on player salaries.

With Berahino, I think that WBA got caught between trying to talk up a sale and appear to their fans that they were playing hard ball. At the end, it left them no where to go.

 

[Robspur12]

We made our offer(s) and WBA didn't accept it(them) hardly crime of the century, it's only because West Brom have made this a circus that it's become such a saga... It seems the attitude among Spurs fans is if we don't get the player it's a fudge up on our part, which is a bit silly, especially if we're working on a tight budget whilst the stadium is being built and have to be creative with our bidding. We're under as much obligation to pay what WBA want for a player as they are to accept any offer we put forward, but those with a natural disposition to blame Levy will do so regardless

According to Garlick the offers were way off the
mark even on the last day with an unacceptable payment structure. Why bother making repeated vexatious attempts to buy him when the selling club's make it clear they don't want to sell. Levy knows the score he has been in the selling position many times. Now not being anti levy here but when Liverpool and Man utd tried to sign Keane and Berbatov Levy went public as he did when Chelsea poached Arnesen. So we can not blame Peace for doing so about his prize asset who he didn't want to sell.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

What I find irrational is this groupie reaction to the Levy critics when no-one (well maybe with the exception of @DubaiSpur ) who has done so, has shown any personal dislike towards the man. I am sure that those who have not toed the "it's all WBA fault" phalanx point of view, applaud Levy for many things... the stadium, the academy, our financial stability and relative success etc I certainly do.

The issue relates solely to one thing, and one thing only: the Berahino failed transfer and its repercussions. And every sound and rational judgement points to the fact that, for whatever amount of success he had previously, he simply f****d this up. And he did so because he thought he could out bluff Peace but miscalculated badly. It's not as if the guy does not expect and exact accountability from his managers based on nothing else other than their results; so what is wrong for the boot to be placed on the other shoe for once?

There is another thing that nobody has commented upon... why do we have a deadline day drama practically every year... Berahino; Bale two years ago; Moutinho the year before that; Modric; Lloris; Berbatov to Man Utd.... No other club I can recollect has such a record. My feeling (and admittedly it is speculation - but then since when has a message board banned that) is that Levy gets a rush from the excitement of big name tough deadline day dealings. He is not a machine - no human being is. We all have our tics and irrational behaviours. I think he needs the adrenalin. It has admittedly worked handsomely when we have sold our players but unfortunately we have had our fingers burnt on key purchases... Moutinho and Berahino being excellent examples who would almost certainly have made a major impact.

OK well I have set my stall out on what I have disliked about Levy.

With regards to Berahino, I do not believe the facts point to the fact that he has fudged up. There are 3 parties involved, 2 of which wanted to do a deal and 1 who didn't. We tried multiple times and to assume that Levy thought he could bluff Peace is a little non-sensical because he didn't do the same with N'Jie or Song in this transfer window alone. If you are the selling club it is in your interests to drag out to the last possible moment to drive as high a price as possible. If a chairman/club is willing to do that then there is nothing Levy could do to prevent that.

Again, people say that we should have just paid the £25m/£28m or whatever to get the deal done, and we should have offered it sooner. Again, I will say that is not how transfers work. http://www.skysports.com/transfer/n...ansfer-works-from-the-scouting-to-the-signing is a link that I have posted numerous times. Note how it says that when you place a bid it is usually when you think you have a good chance of winning and tha tnegotiations go on for a long period beforehand. So it stands to reason that our interest was before when our first bid was received. We talked to the relevant intermediaries and acted based on the information given.

Now on to the topic of Levy low-balling and giving ridiculous payment structures. The only evidence of this is based on what WBA have said. However, what Spurs have said in return is that the payment structure followed that submitted by WBA for Fazio. Is it not fair that the payment structure that they deem reasonable also be used as a first basis for a proposed payment structure. What is wrong with that? Also Levy's payment structures don't seem to have been a problem with Son and N'Jie this window. Also, Levy is prepared to pay up front i.e. Dembele. So again, why is it that Levy is being honed out for criticism.

We have missed out (I don't agree with fingers burned) on transfers not solely because of Levy. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous. Again I come back to what possible reason does Levy have for doing this and why does he not do it consistently? Why did he choose the Berahino deal to do it and not the N'Jie or Son deal this window alone? Why did he not do it for Lamela, Soldado etc..... People say there is a consistency in the way Levy does his deals but there is not! There is a consistency in the deals that have failed in that he has tried until the last day!

As for the guess that no other club has a similar record, I posted up numerous times the timings of our transfers to show just how many of our transfers have happened after the season has started. If we are going to have a conversation based on fact, please can someone critical of Levy bring up some of the other clubs dealings to show that it is completely out of kilter. I bet that it won't be.

In no way am I saying that Levy is perfect, but the amount of vitriol and criticism that is levelled his way on this one deal is OTT. We missed out on a target because the other club did not want to sell. That is all. Move on, it's not the end of the world and it does not deserve the amount of criticism that is thrown his way. If people cannot balance that then I suggest you try and identify an alternative Chairman that with the same resources as us has managed a better transfer strategy. Even the mighty Chelsea and Emirates Marketing Project were doing deals late in the window. It's the rational strategy for a selling club to adopt particularly if you play in the same league as the club that is buying.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

I don't think that it is as clear cut as that.

Can you therefore highlight a half decent young striker who has moved to a top 6 EPL club for anything less than 10 mill in the past 5 years, even before the TV deal? And I am not even mentioning a young player of Berahino's potential

With Berahino, I think that WBA got caught between trying to talk up a sale and appear to their fans that they were playing hard ball. At the end, it left them no where to go.

Interesting that we were saying very much the same thing about Schneiderlin and Southampton, last year. Those who do not heed history are bound to repeat it....

 

[billyiddo]

According to Garlick the offers were way off the Mark

Garlick?

That doesn't really change what I have said - we had our valuation, they had theirs, we couldn't agree a few between us, happens all the time - only usually you don't get one side putting everything out in the open in such a way

 

[Raziel]

So many assumptions that people take for fact ...

Lets start with the stuff that is generally true

- It doesn't matter what the selling club values a player at, it's what we value a player at, if they match (or are close enough to negotiate on), then a deal can be done, if not, walk away.
- Levy's job is to make sure Spurs doesn't get fudged, doesn't make bad financial decisions (as much as that can be mitigated),lets be clear, English players are a huge financial risk because unlike Soldado, Lamela, Paulinho who they have clubs outside of England who would still take a punt on, how much money could Andy Carroll fetch today? Berahino had to have a cap in case it didn't work out.

Re the Levy low balling, late bids, etc. lets be clear

- Daniel Levy would not even be at the table until negotiations got to a significant stage, agents/club representatives/etc would discuss is the player available, what would it take, potential acceptable price ranges, etc.
- If Levy actually was talking to Peace, it meant WBA had given substantial indication that the player was for sale, and we had a ballpark range value wise to work with.
- With any deal, multiple stakeholders/approvers are required and one personality can scuttle everything, pretty clear in this case (as clear as it will ever be) that Peace ended up rooster blocking for whatever reasons (price does not seem high on list)
- If WBA wanted the money to reinvest, it would have been an easy enough ask (give/get of negotiation) on their side that the final deal would have to have been at least agreed to in principle by x number of days before end of transfer window.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

How do you know this for sure? If we issue a word of criticism against levy's transfer dealings we are told it is based on speculation so the same should be applied the other way round.

OK. So shall we agree on whether it can be used or not as it should be consistent either way shouldn't it?