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Berahino in January for £25m?

Berahino in January for £25m?

  • Yes

    Votes: 21 36.2%
  • No

    Votes: 37 63.8%

  • Total voters
    58
I was actually travelling round Europe that summer so can't really comment, would be surprised if it was in any way comparable to this situation though
Lucky you I wish I was doing that now rather than having to 're hash the same old arguments to make my life interesting. Hell this is getting like the AVB thread all I'm missing Jurgen to support me.
 
Precisely... all four players were ones that their clubs were actively trying to shift as opposed to Berahino - and they still went for a seven zero sum.



If we wanted Berahino and the risk mitigation that he offered, we had to either pay over the odds for the privilege (since he did not fit in this category) or go for someone else. We tried to have the cake and eat it but ended up with custard all over our face.

Do you not think the way WBA we're going about this so publicly indicates they were also trying to sell Berahino? Can't imagine why they'd be going to such lengths to pour scorn on Levy if they weren't looking to sell...after all, 'they didn't want to sell' and that's what happened so they should be happy, yet here they are ramping up the PR! They're not fooling anyone, well...

If they didn't want to sell him they'd have rejected any approach out of hand and this whole sorry mess would have been cut short - they wanted to sell
 
I think that WBA were trying to actively shift Berahino. I see no other reasons for the public pronouncements.

Compare it to when we didn't want to sell Modric to Chelsea - open statement early on categorically stating he will not be sold that summer, no wriggle room just a flat out not going anywhere statement. Then nothing said on the matter our end for the rest of the summer


Conversely this summer literally everything has come from WBA including the initial news that we were interested (but no bid has been made) and then a blow by blow account of what we were bidding!
 
Compare it to when we didn't want to sell Modric to Chel53a - open statement early on categorically stating he will not be sold that summer, no wriggle room just a flat out not going anywhere statement. Then nothing said on the matter our end for the rest of the summer

Conversely this summer literally everything has come from WBA including the initial news that we were interested (but no bid has been made) and then a blow by blow account of what we were bidding!

And Berahino himself saying that they had Peace had gone back on his agreement and Pullis' reported anger at the sale not going through.
 
We clearly have different opinions then - and in the case of Clint and Son the analogy did not apply because we paid well over the odds compared to the price another club in the same league would have paid. It was not in WBA interest to drag this out because they wanted the money for replacements. Pulis's comments bear this out and it is backed by the director's comments today.

With regards to the analogy not applying to Clint or Son, it seems to apply for De Bruyne and the numerous other transfers that have happened from Lyon including our own Lloris. WBA do not need to start trying to identify replacements as soon as they have received a bid. You don't start a transfer window without having targets in mind for all your problem areas and having plans for the areas that you want to strengthen. When our interest started, they will have been given every indication that the sale of Berahino was a possibility and so they should start trying to either find replacements or methods of how to spend the incoming. It absolutely is in their interests to drag out to the last moment when there is only one club interested in the player.

It seems to have worked for Liverpool in the case of Benteke and for City's transfer of Sterling - which are the closest we can get to the Berahino attempt.

I think you said or someone else that it was unfair to use a case of a release clause which is what Benteke had. As for Sterling, I think that is a long way away from Berahino. £50m for a teenager who is a long way better than Berahino and Tottenham Hotspur bank balance v Emirates Marketing Project.

The evidence for this are the comments of a dozen clubs with whom we conducted major transfers in the past years.

And the counter is the excessive number of transfers that we have made without any sort of comment that is made. I don't tend to believe other club's side of the stories. The reason? If they have sold and are making those comments then why did they agree to the sale? It obviously was acceptable otherwise they would have accepted it. If they refuse the bid, then of course they will say that our offer was below their valuation. What other reason would there be for a failed bid?

Again totally wrong analogies. Seville were skint and needed the Soldado money and we actually paid over the odds for the other three - as proven by the comments of both Roma and Lyon presidents.


OK, let me accept for the moment that we paid over the odds for the other 3. If Levy has history of paying over the odds, why wouldn't he do so here? It doesn't make sense. The fact is that Levy has made plenty of purchases both domestically and abroad without so much of a murmour (Palacios, Bentley, Defoe, Keane, Kaboul, Chimbonda, Soldado, Lamela, Paulinho, Capoue, Modric, Berbatov......) yet it is only the ones where the other clubs have come out to say they didn't like the way he does business that people wish to believe.

I bet it will... How many big money deadline day buys do you remember the top 6 getting in the past 5 years? How many Moutinho or Berahino situations did they have?


I guess this means that you will not do the analysis. So we have my evidence and facts which suggests that the insinuation that Levy really likes last minute deals is gonads, and then we just have your bet. Happy for anyone else to do the research and then we can comment.

As for other clubs making deadline day buys I give you:

Emirates Marketing Project - De Bruyne, De Michelis and Robinho. I don't know about any of their failed signings as I don't follow them.
Man United - Martial, Daley Blind, Fellaini. I don't know about any of their failed bids either.
Chelsea - Stones (failed bid), Papy Djilobodji, Remy, Wilian, Eto'o, Atsu.
Liverpool - Balotelli, Sakho, Moses, Ilori.
Arsenal - Welbeck, Ozil.

Now for a lot of varying reasons I don't think they are comparable as all of those clubs have far bigger resources than us, but even with those resources they still don't manage to get their deals done early. Think of all those lost points for those teams.

I guess we will need to agree to disagree. As I said, this relates to one transfer and I guess the reason many of us got such a bad taste in the mouth is because Poch was practically pleading how important a backup for Kane was.

I agree.. let's move on; though if (GHod forbid) Kane gets a bad injury before Christmas you can pretty much be sure that this thread will be back on the hot seat


You're probably right. I don't think missing out on Berahino is crime of the century as it is being made out (I have embellished but truthfully that is what it seems). At least I have seen from a number of posters that they have an appreciation for Levy's good things so there is a bit of balance. I just don't like sensationalism and I don't like being critical for the sake of being critical as if there is some sort of bias. I'm not saying that we should not criticise, I am saying that where we can give the benefit of the doubt we should do so as he has earned that right, imho.
 
Precisely... all four players were ones that their clubs were actively trying to shift as opposed to Berahino - and they still went for a seven zero sum.



If we wanted Berahino and the risk mitigation that he offered, we had to either pay over the odds for the privilege (since he did not fit in this category) or go for someone else. We tried to have the cake and eat it but ended up with custard all over our face.

Everton and Swansea did not want to shift Sinclair or Rodwell. They were selling to rich clubs and thought they had won the lottery.

I don't agree that if we wanted Berahino we had to pay over the odds. I don't even know what the term means as by its very nature any player that you cannot afford is over the odds. There is no "market price" for a player, it is dependent on the selling club and the amount a buying club is willing to pay for.
 
You're probably right. I don't think missing out on Berahino is crime of the century as it is being made out (I have embellished but truthfully that is what it seems). At least I have seen from a number of posters that they have an appreciation for Levy's good things so there is a bit of balance. I just don't like sensationalism and I don't like being critical for the sake of being critical as if there is some sort of bias. I'm not saying that we should not criticise, I am saying that where we can give the benefit of the doubt we should do so as he has earned that right, imho.

This, the thing that some people don't seem to want to accept (covered in other threads)

- Berahinho was not our #1 target
- Club was comfortable with the deal not happening

Based on that, we bid to what we were comfortable with, and walked away when it didn't work out.

The only people having a fit are WBA and our fans ...
 
Even if you take wba at their word they were dealing, phrases like "wide of the mark" and complaints about instalment payments strongly suggest they were not dismissing offers out of hand at all and were merely adopting a bargaining position.
 
Everton and Swansea did not want to shift Sinclair or Rodwell. They were selling to rich clubs and thought they had won the lottery.

I don't agree that if we wanted Berahino we had to pay over the odds. I don't even know what the term means as by its very nature any player that you cannot afford is over the odds. There is no "market price" for a player, it is dependent on the selling club and the amount a buying club is willing to pay for.

Don't you think City paid over the odds (in other words above actual predicted market value) for Sinclair and Rodwell?? All you have to do is to compare it with the prices they got when they shifted those two a couple of years later... Same thing with Everton when they bought Lukaku. Do you think he was worth 28mill? More than Diego Costa? But because he came from a EPL club, Everton accepted they had to pay a premium.

And if Lukaku cost 28 mill, was Berahino overpriced at 25 mill?

As you say the price is dependent on the two clubs agreeing - which is exactly why you cannot leave these things till the last afternoon of the last transfer day...
 
Don't you think City paid over the odds (in other words above actual predicted market value) for Sinclair and Rodwell?? All you have to do is to compare it with the prices they got when they shifted those two a couple of years later... Same thing with Everton when they bought Lukaku. Do you think he was worth 28mill? More than Diego Costa? But because he came from a EPL club, Everton accepted they had to pay a premium.

And if Lukaku cost 28 mill, was Berahino overpriced at 25 mill?

As you say the price is dependent on the two clubs agreeing - which is exactly why you cannot leave these things till the last afternoon of the last transfer day...

Sinclair was £8m, Rodwell £12m. Rodwell had been capped by the senior England side 3 times and was eventually sold for £10m after having not played. So, if we are talking "true market value" £12m is not far off the mark bearing in mind he was sold for just £2m less 2 years later after not having played very much at all.

Sinclair was 23, played for the olympic team and was only £8m, so no I don't think they overpaid.

Lukaku at the time of being transferred to Everton had spent 2 seasons in the EPL scoring 17 and 15 goals in those 2 seasons. He was also in the Belgian national team having made more than 10 appearances. Berahino by contrast has scored a total of 19 EPL goals over 2 seasons and has not appeared for the senior national team. So if Lukaku cost £28m then £25m is overpriced.
 
Don't you think City paid over the odds (in other words above actual predicted market value) for Sinclair and Rodwell?? All you have to do is to compare it with the prices they got when they shifted those two a couple of years later... Same thing with Everton when they bought Lukaku. Do you think he was worth 28mill? More than Diego Costa? But because he came from a EPL club, Everton accepted they had to pay a premium.

And if Lukaku cost 28 mill, was Berahino overpriced at 25 mill?

As you say the price is dependent on the two clubs agreeing - which is exactly why you cannot leave these things till the last afternoon of the last transfer day...

Why should the selling club get their requested price if the buying club doesn't want to pay it? It's called a deal, right? We obviously didn't want to spend that money there. We're not afraid to spend, Son proved that. I think Levy has blown a few deals in his time, but this one? I'm not so sure. Peace was a willing blowee. The pair of them got involved in a war with each other. Player lost out biggest of all. There's more to this than we are getting. I don't think DL makes it easy on himself due to lack of 'matey' vibe in the boardroom, but on this one, I cannot really blame him unequivocally.
 
That's fine and I respect your opinion. If Peace has made it so personal that he is prepared to let Berahino go elsewhere, good luck to him. It's not exactly like there were loads of suitors for Berahino. Per their own press officer or whoever that joker was, there was one other enquiry only. They made the whole scenario public and still didn't get anything and have only succeeded in tinkleing off their player.

So, if Peace is going to try and flog him to anyone but us, good luck. It could succeed. It could not. Berahino could not play at all, play like **** and there may be no interest in him. Alternatively, he could play, wham in 20 goals and they could sell at a higher price. As I said, for me, there are too many variables.

You say Levy always has to try one more squeeze. So explain to me why we have managed to secure other players? If he likes a squeeze, surely this would happen with every transfer. I mean, if he likes it so much. If he likes to have ridiculous payment structures meaning a club gets £2.50 for the next 100 years, how have we managed to secure other large signings. Either those payment structures are acceptable or they are not. If Levy can only work with long payment structures, then why were Fulham so surprised that we were paying a lot of the Dembele transfer up front?

I have no special insight into the workings of his mind; he obviously has his own rules about when to try and put the screws on and when not to. I just know how often I hear of him being dug out for it.
 
I have no special insight into the workings of his mind; he obviously has his own rules about when to try and put the screws on and when not to. I just know how often I hear of him being dug out for it.

Right, so when there is no special insight into the mind to see that he acts irrationally you have to look at the facts. He is a successful businessman who has a significant financial interest in making this club more successful. For him to achieve top dollar he needs a new stadium and a CL/trophy winning team. Why would he jeapordize that just to "turn the screw". He doesn't win, the club doesn't win, the player doesn't win and the selling club doesn't win. Why be so self-destructive? There are no rational reasons, yet you would choose to believe the media and some choice comments from opposing chairman over any of these rational facts.

The guy cannot win. In the posts of today he has been accused of turning the screw on a deal or to try one more squeeze, then he is accused of overpaying for Lamela/Soldado, then he is accused of not taking enough risks.

Then, when asked which other chairman people would want based on success, the silence is deafening.

So in the absence of any facts to the contrary, what are we left with. A bunch of supporters who will blame Levy for anything and everything all because it is easier to find a spacegoat then actually admit that what their own expectations are wildly high and they don't even know what the right thing to do is. He should have paid over the odds for Berahino, but shouldn't have paid over the odds for Lamela. He should show a little ambition and take more risks, he shouldn't have wasted the Bale money on average journeymen. He likes one further squeeze, but only in certain situations in the same transfer window. He should spend £400m on players rather than on a stadium, despite the fact that Chelsea and Emirates Marketing Project, the two clubs that have broken into the top 4 spent more than double that to cement their places in the top 4. He didn't want to turn the screw on N'Jie or Son transfers, but did for the Berahino. Man, he must be an idiot.
 
Right, so when there is no special insight into the mind to see that he acts irrationally you have to look at the facts. He is a successful businessman who has a significant financial interest in making this club more successful. For him to achieve top dollar he needs a new stadium and a CL/trophy winning team. Why would he jeapordize that just to "turn the screw". He doesn't win, the club doesn't win, the player doesn't win and the selling club doesn't win. Why be so self-destructive? There are no rational reasons, yet you would choose to believe the media and some choice comments from opposing chairman over any of these rational facts.

The guy cannot win. In the posts of today he has been accused of turning the screw on a deal or to try one more squeeze, then he is accused of overpaying for Lamela/Soldado, then he is accused of not taking enough risks.

Then, when asked which other chairman people would want based on success, the silence is deafening.

So in the absence of any facts to the contrary, what are we left with. A bunch of supporters who will blame Levy for anything and everything all because it is easier to find a spacegoat then actually admit that what their own expectations are wildly high and they don't even know what the right thing to do is. He should have paid over the odds for Berahino, but shouldn't have paid over the odds for Lamela. He should show a little ambition and take more risks, he shouldn't have wasted the Bale money on average journeymen. He likes one further squeeze, but only in certain situations in the same transfer window. He should spend £400m on players rather than on a stadium, despite the fact that Chel53a and Emirates Marketing Project, the two clubs that have broken into the top 4 spent more than double that to cement their places in the top 4. He didn't want to turn the screw on N'Jie or Son transfers, but did for the Berahino. Man, he must be an idiot.

Just go and have a cup of tea, mate ;)
 
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