AVB out or not?

[scaramanga]

wow..

If we are to compete for 1-4th we must beat United at home. Especially when we HAVE NOT SCORED IN 3 CONSECUTIVE PL GAMES

so yes, a manager has to be sacked when he takes a squad as talented as our and they fail to create a goal in 4 games in a row, losing 2 at home and doing a 6-0 loss away.

What if we lose to Utd and win every other game this season? I think that would stand a good chance of getting us competing for 1st-4th.

 

[Ganter]

What if we lose to Utd and win every other game this season? I think that would stand a good chance of getting us competing for 1st-4th.

If you want to discuss "what if´s", let´s discuss it..

WHAT IF the refs that gave our match winning penaltys this season would not have given them?

I have been defending AVB since he came but enough is enough. I have seen non-league clubs play better football than our team. And his stubbornness is costing us. The system is not working, he should change it or go. It´s like trying to get over a wall and refuse to use a ladder.

 

[scaramanga]

If you want to discuss "what if´s", let´s discuss it..

WHAT IF the refs that gave our match winning penaltys this season would not have given them?

I have been defending AVB since he came but enough is enough. I have seen non-league clubs play better football than our team. And his stubbornness is costing us. The system is not working, he should change it or go. It´s like trying to get over a wall and refuse to use a ladder.

That's irrelevant as it already happened and is in the past and you're just changing the subject.

You stated quite clearly, that in order to compete for 1st-4th we had to beat Utd and that AVB must go if we don't. I merely pointed out that what you had stated was entirely untrue and that, in fact, it was entirely possible (however unlikely) to lose to Utd and win the league.

 

[djp82]

I agree to some extent - AVB can't lose the dressing room and the players can't lose too much morale, that would be a problem. Although I wouldn't automatically believe the press if they start suggesting that's happened, as has been stated above 'Arry's old mates did that before when it wasn't true.

Surely though, the whole reason we're going through this process is to put a solid, dependable system in place where players can leave without ruining our style. Obviously losing players this summer before the system is properly established would be a problem but hopefully not an insurmountable one.

I do see your point about system and disruption but the system looks forced to me. Like square pegs in round holes. Take soldado a proven scorer in Spain. People on his back but the man is not being fed at all no service no goals . If you want to enforce a rigid system that works you need to play the same players in the same positions week in and out.
That does not happen take the side at the top of the league that is a settled side who know there roles. With us I just don't see it whilst the system is rigid the personnel are tinkered with too much .

 

[Gutter Boy]

wow..

If we are to compete for 1-4th we must beat United at home. Especially when we HAVE NOT SCORED IN 3 CONSECUTIVE PL GAMES

so yes, a manager has to be sacked when he takes a squad as talented as our and they fail to create a goal in 4 games in a row, losing 2 at home and doing a 6-0 loss away.

Mate - I think you've got yourself lost. Don't you mean to be here: http://www.theshedend.com/forum/43-general-chelsea-fc/

 

[Libero]

I would like to give him the season and then judge him on that but I don't think that will happen and if what happens in the next month is what I think will happen, then he doesn't deserve to stay to the end of the season. I think that he will be under immense pressure in January because the board won't act now which is probably correct but I see us losing against both United and Liverpool at home because we just don't create enough.

We could get decent results against Fulham, Sunderland and Southampton but I think we will drop points against both WBA and Stoke and follow that up with a defeat to United on New Years Day. I would not be surprised to see us in the bottom half at the turn of the year and if we also lose to West Ham again in that run then he will be under so much pressure that he cannot possibly survive.

I got the impression yesterday that the players don't have much will in them or desire which they must be held accountable for but the manager has to set the standard as well and if he is failing on that score then it doesn't auger well.

 

[scaramanga]

I do see your point about system and disruption but the system looks forced to me. Like square pegs in round holes. Take soldado a proven scorer in Spain. People on his back but the man is not being fed at all no service no goals . If you want to enforce a rigid system that works you need to play the same players in the same positions week in and out.
That does not happen take the side at the top of the league that is a settled side who know there roles. With us I just don't see it whilst the system is rigid the personnel are tinkered with too much .

That may be. It kind of brings me back to my point earlier though.

Most people on this forum voted that AVB needed at least a season once he had his team in place to be judged. I don't know if this is the squad he wanted or just what was available, but let's assume it is his finalised squad. Barring any "serious relegation fears" we're at least 6 months too early (far more than that IMO) from the point at which we can make an accurate assessment of what's happening.

Whilst it looks terrible right now, what if we're that one signing AVB wanted from it all clicking? Remember what we used to look like when Modric was injured? Fvcking awful. Put that player back into the team and we looked like world beaters. I'm not saying it's the case (in fact it's quite unlikely) but what if we're just a January transfer window away from the system working for the next few decades?

 

[Ganter]

Mate - I think you've got yourself lost. Don't you mean to be here: http://www.theshedend.com/forum/43-general-chelsea-fc/

No

But after watching Spurs go into CL and be competing for it on a regular basis, I find our results, our attitude and our style of play disgusting. Sure, every team can hit a couple of rough results but the thing is we fully deserve to get hammered 6-0 and we should be lower in the table. There is NOTHING going on on the pitch except for clueless tactics and headless chickens running around.

Really happy that some people find it acceptable not to score on a regular basis with a squad like ours and the financial power it took to build it.

 

[Robbo]

We aren't stuttering though, having one decent performance and then one bad one or showing ANY signs of improvement. If anything we're getting worse fast!

I'm glad we have a ruthless chairman with balls of steal In charge that isn't willing to tolerate this crap.

I have no doubt in my mind that Levy is now making plans as to who AVB's successor should be and that's all that is giving me comfort right now!

I'm glad we have a chairman focused on the long term interest of Spurs, rather than being impatient like Abramowich or gambling on the club's future like Ridsdale.

It's nothing personal, but I find it ridiculous how Spurs fans - and football fans in general - are more and more likely to want the quick fix: Sack the manager, play the youngster, buy new players, etc. It's change for change's sake, because of a irrational belief that everything will get better once we have change.

 

[Modric THFC]

Something else to look at is there are 5 teams above us in the league whose manager have been appointed after AVB (and oneappointed on the same week).
Why is it taking so long for AVB's 'system' to gel compared to them.
Why didn't he need this period at Porto?

 

[scaramanga]

Something else to look at is there are 5 teams above us in the league whose manager have been appointed after AVB (and oneappointed on the same week).
Why is it taking so long for AVB's 'system' to gel compared to them.
Why didn't he need this period at Porto?

Because AVB is having to fix 5 decades of short-termism.

 

[djp82]

That may be. It kind of brings me back to my point earlier though.

Most people on this forum voted that AVB needed at least a season once he had his team in place to be judged. I don't know if this is the squad he wanted or just what was available, but let's assume it is his finalised squad. Barring any "serious relegation fears" we're at least 6 months too early (far more than that IMO) from the point at which we can make an accurate assessment of what's happening.

Whilst it looks terrible right now, what if we're that one signing AVB wanted from it all clicking? Remember what we used to look like when Modric was injured? Fvcking awful. Put that player back into the team and we looked like world beaters. I'm not saying it's the case (in fact it's quite unlikely) but what if we're just a January transfer window away from the system working for the next few decades?

Well my fingers a crossed that's the case because at the minute it's painful.My major concern is the belief off the players will they hang about and hope the project comes good ?

That's going to be down to AVB and his management skills.

 

[indospurs]

Yes. The problem is AVB knows that but wants the fans to be on his side...

The fans will be on AvB's side if we play well and win. He has to make the tough decisions - things that don't work he has to change, even in the game it feels as if he leaves things too long or makes wrong choices. He has to show he is a winner, and do what it takes, and that could displease some people such as players and/or fans.

 

[Gutter Boy]

No

But after watching Spurs go into CL and be competing for it on a regular basis, I find our results, our attitude and our style of play disgusting. Sure, every team can hit a couple of rough results but the thing is we fully deserve to get hammered 6-0 and we should be lower in the table. There is NOTHING going on on the pitch except for clueless tactics and headless chickens running around.

Really happy that some people find it acceptable not to score on a regular basis with a squad like ours and the financial power it took to build it.

So the CL we've qualified for twice in 131 seasons? And the negative amount that AVB has spent during his time in charge?

Our defence was the best in the league before yesterday balls-up and our midfield has bossed all comers (even yesterday). The only thing we are lacking is a bit of understanding in the front 4.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I'm glad we have a chairman focused on the long term interest of Spurs, rather than being impatient like Abramowich or gambling on the club's future like Ridsdale.

It's nothing personal, but I find it ridiculous how Spurs fans - and football fans in general - are more and more likely to want the quick fix: Sack the manager, play the youngster, buy new players, etc. It's change for change's sake, because of a irrational belief that everything will get better once we have change.

I remember once on here during the Jol years we were in a bad patch of form and someone posted: ''He should play Chimbonda and Kaboul in midfield, anything would be better than what we have now!'' and it gave me a good laugh. Mostly because it wasn't tongue in cheek in the slightest.

 

[indospurs]

That may be. It kind of brings me back to my point earlier though.

Most people on this forum voted that AVB needed at least a season once he had his team in place to be judged. I don't know if this is the squad he wanted or just what was available, but let's assume it is his finalised squad. Barring any "serious relegation fears" we're at least 6 months too early (far more than that IMO) from the point at which we can make an accurate assessment of what's happening.

Whilst it looks terrible right now, what if we're that one signing AVB wanted from it all clicking? Remember what we used to look like when Modric was injured? Fvcking awful. Put that player back into the team and we looked like world beaters. I'm not saying it's the case (in fact it's quite unlikely) but what if we're just a January transfer window away from the system working for the next few decades?

One player to make a whole system work ? wow, that should concern us all, we are far too reliant on that one player - oh look, Barca are missing Messi but seem to manage results. Let's not hide our heads in the sand, AvB has to find the solution. Before the game I just hoped we at least drew, not lose. And not lose in this fashion, no passion from the players when defending, we weren't at the races at all. Apart from Dawson, we looked apathetic, players left their man and jogged back sooo many times. Made me want to punch the tv

 

[Gutter Boy]

Something else to look at is there are 5 teams above us in the league whose manager have been appointed after AVB (and oneappointed on the same week).
Why is it taking so long for AVB's 'system' to gel compared to them.
Why didn't he need this period at Porto?

There were solid foundations at Porto. AVB's fixing three decades of neglect. He's also had to cope with the loss of our 4 world class players and had an overall turnover of about 15.

 

[Ganter]

So the CL we've qualified for twice in 131 seasons? And the negative amount that AVB has spent during his time in charge?

Our defence was the best in the league before yesterday balls-up and our midfield has bossed all comers (even yesterday). The only thing we are lacking is a bit of understanding in the front 4.

a bit? really?

we bought one of the best finishers in Europe and we can´t give him ****. We got rid of one of the best LB in the PL because AVB he did not fit into AVB´s system, a system that is a complete failure. He insist on playing with inward wingers again and again. Players are playing out of position and why he thinks Holtby is a creative player is beyond me.

 

[Hootnow]

So the CL we've qualified for twice in 131 seasons? And the negative amount that AVB has spent during his time in charge?

Our defence was the best in the league before yesterday balls-up and our midfield has bossed all comers (even yesterday). The only thing we are lacking is a bit of understanding in the front 4.

Please don't tell me you actually think our midfield bossed it yesterday?

But yes, keep AVB on. Still too premature to make a move now.

 

[Armchair Expert]

Because AVB is having to fix 5 decades of short-termism.

:lol: that's the biggest load of nonsense I've heard. He inherited a team that was our best in recent memory and had been assembled during our most settled period of the last 20 years. There were plenty of players in that squad that had become part of the furniture, a back room full of Spurs old boys with decades worth of associations with the club.

Rogers (for example) walked into a **** storm at a club who had blown the best part of 100 million on Hnderson, Downing, Adam etc. AVB's starting point was light years ahead of Rogers.

AVB's trying to sort out 50 years of short termisim? That's the most facile, semantic and frankly ludicrous argument I've read in the whole thread.

Anyway, back to the real world with analysis based on whats been going on on the pitch since AVB took over...

There is no point in pointing out the failings again as they are obvious to anyone with the use of either their eyes, or ears, so i'll just answer the question in the thread title.

I voted not yet. I don't think he'll turn it round and I'm fairly sure he's lost the dressing room based purely on body language and disinterested performances yesterday. However having spent the money we've spent we're obliged to let him carry on a few more games. Its obvious performances won't improve, but results might.

IMO he's now in a position where he's going to have to continue to buy himself time with results. If he can somehow blag some results to keep us in touch with the top six, then i'd let him carry on a bit further. If he for example takes 1 point from the next 3 then he has to go - it could become a perilous situation for us otherwise. If he can get results, then the subsequent time he wins for himself gives him further opportunities to get the tactics right.

Tactics hehe, if anyone can point out what our tactics were against City i'd be very surprised.