AVB out or not?

[NWND]

It is made up. The only thing you have evidence for from our playing style is how we've been playing - that show's nothing of AVB's preferences at all, it merely shows what AVB does within the exact parameters he's had so far. Because your sample size is 1 you cannot draw any conclusions whatsoever from that except what AVB does in the exact circumstances that have occurred.

There are two sources of evidence that have any relation to AVB's preferences in football - the things he's said and the book that was written about him. Both point to the fact that he doesn't choose to play boring football when given the option.

Don't tell me what my sample size is, your arrogance really is amazing. I watch loads of football. I watch Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, Turkish football. I travel all over the world and sample football. I have just got home from Milan this morning.

I watched his Chelsea team and his Porto team, so how dare you make assumptions about what my sample size is and TELL ME what evidence I'm using to make MY OWN judgements!

Seriously, you're the one here refusing to accept what your own eyes should be telling you, that the team AVB has built is a big steaming pile of turd

 

[scaramanga]

yes in your "bias" opinion...much like it's my "bias" opinion that it's other factors. Do you get how silly it is to constantly label everything and everyone "bias" now because of their opinion? we're all ****ing guilty of being "bias" then.

Of course we are, when there's a sample size of one basing our opinion on that evidence has to have bias as there's no proper evidence to go by.

Except of course if you look at what AVB has said throughout his career about his beliefs in football.

Let me give you an example:

I don't like BMWs, I think they're a soulless, unimaginative brand of cars. They're too sporty to be comfortable and too comfortable to be properly sporty. Yet I drive a BMW as the price of my car (being ditched nearly new by one of our directors who didn't like it for a massive loss) was too good to turn down. I don't enjoy it, but it's good enough for me to throw 50K on the clock and get rid.

When that's done with I'll probably go back to Mercedes or buy a Jaguar. Hopefully Alfa will get their arses in gear and produce a decent RWD four door saloon in which case I'll buy that. Hopefully I'll start earning some more money before that happens so I can consider Maserati's replacement for the Quattroporte.

But if you weren't interested in the facts and just took a brief glance at the exterior position, you'd think I like BMWs because I drive one. See?

 

[NWND]

It is made up. The only thing you have evidence for from our playing style is how we've been playing - that show's nothing of AVB's preferences at all, it merely shows what AVB does within the exact parameters he's had so far. Because your sample size is 1 you cannot draw any conclusions whatsoever from that except what AVB does in the exact circumstances that have occurred.

There are two sources of evidence that have any relation to AVB's preferences in football - the things he's said and the book that was written about him. Both point to the fact that he doesn't choose to play boring football when given the option.

Oh and you think he isn't being given the option to play good football? Last season he had Ade, Sig, Bale, Lennon, Dembele, attacking full backs in BAE and Walker.

This season he got to add Soldado, Eriksen, Lamela, Chadli and Townsend!!! Hahaha no choice is there?

 

[Gutter Boy]

Great post...the only thing that changes it is if he has lost the players, which will become apparent if agents start leaking **** to the rags over the coming days...

Tbh, if that happens, I'd say it's more likely that it's Redknapp's mates in the media deliberately trying to bring him down.

Remember that was exactly what was happening prior to our win at Old Trafford last autumn.

Remember Sherwood briefing Richard Keys that the players were "over trained and unhappy"

 

[scaramanga]

Don't tell me what my sample size is

So you agree that the sample size is one? In which case, what is the result of opinions formed on a sample size of one?

your arrogance really is amazing.

That's the problem with being amazing in so many ways - sometimes it spills over into my arrogance and makes that amazing too

I used to work for a guy everyone thought was arrogant. After a while it became apparent that rather than being arrogant he was just right a huge amount of the time - mainly due to his resolute use of logic/reasoning in decision making. His belief that he should nudge others towards the evidence and let them find their own way to the facts was what came across as arrogant. It may not be the nicest way to get people to see facts for what they are, but it was the least time-consuming for him whilst teaching everyone else valuable logic/reasoning skills.

I watch loads of football. I watch Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, Turkish football.

Good for you, I hope you enjoy it. I wish I had the time to watch it as much as I used to.

I travel all over the world and sample football. I have just got home from Milan this morning.

Again, good for you - I hope it was fun. Not a big fan of Milan as a place (other than for shopping), what did you think of it?

I watched his Chelsea team and his Porto team,

I suspect as football fans most of us on the forum did. However neither of those circumstances are even close to anything he's experienced at Spurs so I'm not sure any real conclusions can be drawn from that - especially not as it only amounts to around 1.5 seasons of football.

so how dare you make assumptions about what my sample size is and TELL ME what evidence I'm using to make MY OWN judgements!

I haven't made an assumption about the sample size, I've stated what the sample size is. Feel free to disagree with the standard methods of defining n if you like, although I think you'll find it hard to find people that will agree that 1 ≠ 1. And you told me what evidence you've been using, I just helped you separate evidence from opinion.

Seriously, you're the one here refusing to accept what your own eyes should be telling you, that the team AVB has built is a big steaming pile of turd

I'm more than happy to admit our current football is ugly, I just don't believe that our current style/results are the final destination - rather that they're an uncomfortable way of getting where we're going.

 

[camspur]

Despite being in 9th we are still only 2 points off 4th and 4 points off 2nd. We are all majorly disappointed with the last two results but its way too early to write the season (and the manager) off.

 

[shaney]

If we are still struggling come January, we need to make signings. If we don't make signings, then we worry. But for now, we keep the faith.

Sign even more players and expect them to hit form straight away. Utter madness. We have spent £100 million already. Its not the players that are the problem, its the manager.

 

[djp82]

@scara
Problem with it not being the end point in terms of where we want to be is it does not even look close.
Players may become unhappy with manager and the fans are already restless.
If we have a poor season we are back to square one players will want out , other clubs will be sniffing around our better players and another unsettled summer awaits us as.
Problem is where do we draw the line change it and hope or stick with it and risk the above it's all fine margins.
For me some players already look disinterested Jan for one.

 

[Baleforce]

Sign even more players and expect them to hit form straight away. Utter madness. We have spent £100 million already. Its not the players that are the problem, its the manager.

I don't think its as simple as that, I might be wrong but i'm gonna assume AVB isn't coaching Lloris to pass the ball to opponents like he did yesterday or instructing Verts to completely miss the ball like he did for the Navas goal. The players are making mistakes, they need to take their share of the blame and work on their concentration so the mistakes don't happen.

 

[lurker of old]

Maybe the lack of a decent successor will give AVB the time he needs to get his act together! One thing I thought after watching MOTD was that playing a high line against opponents with very speedy forwards is a really dangerous game: I think back to when Sam Allardyce (I think) got a point away against the **** when Thierry Henri was in his pomp. Sam played the opposite of a high line (whatever that is called!) and denied Henri the space to run in behind his centre backs. We will find out over the next month just how smart AVB is, let's hope we are all pleasantly surprised.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Maybe the lack of a decent successor will give AVB the time he needs to get his act together! One thing I thought after watching MOTD was that playing a high line against opponents with very speedy forwards is a really dangerous game: I think back to when Sam Allardyce (I think) got a point away against the **** when Thierry Henri was in his pomp. Sam played the opposite of a high line (whatever that is called!) and denied Henri the space to run in behind his centre backs. We will find out over the next month just how smart AVB is, let's hope we are all pleasantly surprised.

Only the 6th goal (when Verts got caught 1-on-1) was caused by the high line. Two were poor clearances and the rest we had defenders behind the ball, but just couldn't cope with City's movement. We looked worst at 4-4-2 when our CM, for the first time in a long while, just dissolved (in spite of Sandro's efforts).

 

[Baleforce]

I wouldn't even blame the 6th goal on a high line, Verts was in exactly the right place and had it covered.

 

[NWND]

I don't think its as simple as that, I might be wrong but i'm gonna assume AVB isn't coaching Lloris to pass the ball to opponents like he did yesterday or instructing Verts to completely miss the ball like he did for the Navas goal. The players are making mistakes, they need to take their share of the blame and work on their concentration so the mistakes don't happen.

Every player makes mistakes every game. I've seen Messi miss easy chances and misplace passes.

As a manager you need to devise a system that doesn't rely on players playing perfect games every game!

 

[Baleforce]

Every player makes mistakes every game. I've seen Messi miss easy chances and misplace passes.

As a manager you need to devise a system that doesn't rely on players playing perfect games every game!

true, but you don't normally get 3 mistakes a game which directly lead to goals, there is nothing any manager can do to compensate for that

 

[milo]

Tbh, if that happens, I'd say it's more likely that it's Redknapp's mates in the media deliberately trying to bring him down.

Remember that was exactly what was happening prior to our win at Old Trafford last autumn.

Remember Sherwood briefing Richard Keys that the players were "over trained and unhappy"

I don't think that it was ever confirmed that it was Sherwood

 

[Gutter Boy]

Every player makes mistakes every game. I've seen Messi miss easy chances and misplace passes.

As a manager you need to devise a system that doesn't rely on players playing perfect games every game!

Which is exactly why AVB, for the first time since Burkinshaw, is trying to introduce a system, rather than relying on a star man to have a perfect game (see Hoddle, Waddle, Gascoigne, Sheringham, Ginola, Berbatov, Modric, Bale for our entire fortunes resting on one set of shoulders between 1984-2012).

 

[scaramanga]

@scara
Problem with it not being the end point in terms of where we want to be is it does not even look close.
Players may become unhappy with manager and the fans are already restless.
If we have a poor season we are back to square one players will want out , other clubs will be sniffing around our better players and another unsettled summer awaits us as.
Problem is where do we draw the line change it and hope or stick with it and risk the above it's all fine margins.
For me some players already look disinterested Jan for one.

I agree to some extent - AVB can't lose the dressing room and the players can't lose too much morale, that would be a problem. Although I wouldn't automatically believe the press if they start suggesting that's happened, as has been stated above 'Arry's old mates did that before when it wasn't true.

Surely though, the whole reason we're going through this process is to put a solid, dependable system in place where players can leave without ruining our style. Obviously losing players this summer before the system is properly established would be a problem but hopefully not an insurmountable one.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I don't think that it was ever confirmed that it was Sherwood

It was a direct quote from one of the people who had the conversation; although later retracted.

https://twitter.com/richardajkeys/status/252109876510208001

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Look I'm a pragmatist at heart. I don't care if we play boring football, if we're winning. However having to watch boring football while we're losing, is a bridge toofar for me. He has the squad he wants, money has been available and the players are playing his brand of football, yet he taken the club backwards. Go on all you like about how close we are to top four, that will not last for long. I would not bank on getting positive results against Fulham and Sunderland either, with the way we are playing. I would give him until Christmas.

 

[Ganter]

:ross:

If we lose to the reigning PL champions our manager has to be sacked? :ross: What if Real Madrid get knocked out of the CL and we lose to them in the EL?

FAO: Mulletperm

Please see the above post for a good example.

wow..

If we are to compete for 1-4th we must beat United at home. Especially when we HAVE NOT SCORED IN 3 CONSECUTIVE PL GAMES

so yes, a manager has to be sacked when he takes a squad as talented as our and they fail to create a goal in 4 games in a row, losing 2 at home and doing a 6-0 loss away.