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Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

GHod it's that easy isn't it. I mean we don't have to consider the fact that we're probably going to go with a new system, new tactics, new players (a starting CB that hasn't even played in this league before), a new manager, and probably a new starting CM replacing Luka.
 
billyiddo said:

last night Jurgen said that we are as good as we were 6 months a go as a squad when some were saying we should have got 3rd/been in the title race and asking why are people shifting the goal posts to say we should be happy with 5th/6th - i pointed out we have lost 2/3's of our strike force our Club captain has seemingly retired and we have sold 3 key squad players (that's 6 players out of a 25 man squad) not to mention a new manager that could take time to instill his beliefs and of course the fact what was a 'settled' squad is now going through some changes

it's entirely reasonable to shift your targets under these circumstances - well not so much the targets but what would be deemed a failure then compared to now
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Especially when it's a manager that people like now eh!
 
billyiddo said:
expecting more from a settled squad (which is 6 players better off than it is now) means we can't lower our immediate expectations for a new manager ?

would you listen to yourself
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Modric is going that looks certain. King simply cannot play anymore, but we've already signed a replacement in Vertonghen. We don't know what will happen with Adebayor but listening to you is like we've lost VDV, King, Dawson, Huddlestone, Defoe, Friedel, Bale, Ekotto, Walker, Parker, Sandro etc. Who have we lost? Saha! Good fudging riddance! Corluka? Wasn't going to start anway but good squad player. Nelsen? Big loss!
 
Jurgen the German said:
Modric is going that looks certain. King simply cannot play anymore, but we've already signed a replacement in Vertonghen. We don't know what will happen with Adebayor but listening to you is like we've lost VDV, King, Dawson, Huddlestone, Defoe, Friedel, Bale, Ekotto, Walker, Parker, Sandro etc. Who have we lost? Saha! Good fudging riddance! Corluka? Wasn't going to start anway but good squad player. Nelsen? Big loss!
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how is it like that at all ? you said in your own words we are no worse off than we were 6 months a go - i have provided 6, SIX ! examples of how our squad has changed since then as well as the fact we have a new manager and you still can't see why some people think that it's fair to demand a little less in a new season from a new manager

Im sorry you can't see that and im sorry you think it's ok to demand 4th from a new manager otherwise it's a failure - that sort of short shortsightedness must really take away from being able to enjoy being a fan
 
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nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Of course he is! Just as it would have been with Redknapp in charge.

Friedel on his last legs. Gallas and King seemingly on their way out. Only one striker on the books. Coping with the probable loss of Modric. Adebayor, Saha, Nelsen, Kranjcar, Corluka all leaving. Pienaar, Bentley, Gomes, Bassong, Jenas all looking likely to leave...

The squad was looking shallow last season, this summer was always going to be massive no matter who was in charge.

Add to that the fact we do have a new manager with a very different playing style and of course there will be a transitional period as his ideas and training methods take hold.

That said I do think AVBs approach is a natural progression from Harrys, its a more focused, more organised version of how Redknapp had us play. I also think that the shape of the squad was ideal for AVB to take over, as the core was already there but he is left with room (and funds) to augment it to suit his ideas.

This should, hopefully, expedite the transition - but its not a guarantee
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I understand that, but what I mean is that he's not taking over a squad that is unsuited to him, that needs radical changes. I'd say Liverpool are in transition now. Chelsea were in transition last season and probably still are. At those clubs, what is required is a moving out of some established players, in order to bring in new ones more suited to a new style of play.

With us, we are already suited to his style of play. The replacements we need are more natural. Spaces simply open up in our squad and can get filled by players suited to the style, rather than having them kept on for a couple of years. Friedel needs to be replaced...no matter, he was coming to the end of his career anyway. We need a centre back so we sign what looks to be a great prospect. We need a striker so we try and sign Ade back. It's all natural. Spaces open up in the squad and we fill them. The only awkward transition to me seems to be Siggy coming in, I suspect for Van Der Vaart. That's an experienced, influential player that still has some value but personally I suspect we are going to let him go. But even then, it seems easy enough that he can go back to Germany, and we sign someone who will play well in an AVB system. At Chelsea, it was transition, he had to use players not suited to the style he was trying to implement on the club. At Liverpool, he's going to have to use players not really used to playing the way he played at Swansea. Awkward transition, spaces aren't opening up in the squad yet.

I liken this summer to the first Arnesen summer. Absolutely huge number of ins and outs. We finished 14th the season before, but looked much better. All those signings didn't take a season before they started showing improvement on 14th, because they were better. And there were so many natural spaces opening up in the squad that could be filled by improvements. We needed young central midfielders, we got them. Then the next season, we needed width. We got Lennon and Routledge. Spaces in the squad, clear needs, and we fill them with what we need.

I think that if we sign the right players, broadly, we will do well. Some players take time to settle, and some players hit the ground running, but I don't see the fact that the squad have to get used to new tactics or a lot of players have in as a hindrance to us. AVB is here to win football matches. We are going to provide him with top class players. It seems like we are filling the gaps we have in the squad with the players we need. We should be at least in the conversation for 4th. He has a squad broadly suited to how he wants to play, and it's a squad full of a lot of quality, not one that has under-performed recently.
 
I think you and I have very different ideas of what a transition looks like.

I agree its a more natural fit, and that everyone is well suited - but regardless of that there is a great deal of change afoot = transition...
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I think you and I have very different ideas of what a transition looks like.

I agree its a more natural fit, and that everyone is well suited - but regardless of that there is a great deal of change afoot = transition...
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Ok, it definitely is transition. But I think ours is a natural one. One that can probably be made relatively quickly because it is natural. The one at Liverpool, and the one at Chelsea, they may take a bit more time.
 
Thats fair enough. Ive said a number of times I believe AVB can build on Harrys work, not wipe it away and start again. He inherits a footballing side, one where players are adaptable and has a history of playing positive football - AVB can use that as a foundation for his time here.

However, there isnt that comparison at Chelsea or Liverpool.

That said, how long it takes to get ideas and methodologies bedded in is anyones guess, isnt it? And so is it fair to raise expectations for next season? Longer term, of course, but short term demands need to be sympathetic IMO.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Thats fair enough. Ive said a number of times I believe AVB can build on Harrys work, not wipe it away and start again. He inherits a footballing side, one where players are adaptable and has a history of playing positive football - AVB can use that as a foundation for his time here.

However, there isnt that comparison at Chelsea or Liverpool.

That said, how long it takes to get ideas and methodologies bedded in is anyones guess, isnt it? And so is it fair to raise expectations for next season? Longer term, of course, but short term demands need to be sympathetic IMO.
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I guess that will come down to how good a coach AVB really is. I rate him highly so I back him to implement this change really well. And that's why I'd expect him to at least be in the conversation for 4th again. Would never demand it outright, but I think with his talent and that of the squad, we should at least be challenging for it. If we don't, I'd think something has gone wrong.
 
billyiddo said:
how is it like that at all ? you said in your own words we are no worse off than we were 6 months a go - i have provided 6, SIX ! examples of how our squad has changed since then as well as the fact we have a new manager and you still can't see why some people think that it's fair to demand a little less in a new season from a new manager

Im sorry you can't see that and im sorry you think it's ok to demand 4th from a new manager otherwise it's a failure - that sort of short shortsightedness must really take away from being able to enjoy being a fan
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I never demanded 4th. I said 5th possibly 6th is the absolute worst we should accept. I also never said we should sack him if we fail to meet our targets, but at the very least, he would deserves the same short shrift that any other Spurs manager would get. We have some of the most demanding fans in the country, why has this changed now? This new found patience, where has it come from?

I don't see how saying 5th/6th is demanding too much for a club who's squad at present time is still 5th best at worst in the league. The fact that people are saying we should be worried about Liverpool is laughable and unbelievably hypocritical. If we had failed to finish above Liverpool in any of the last two seasons, the players and manager would have absolutely coated by people on here.

As for you saying we are worse than we were 6 months ago, sorry but I fail to see how we are significantly weakened by losing Corluka, Nelsen and Saha. Who were the other 3 players?

And you're already counting Adebayor as gone btw but for all we know he could be staying.
 
you said that it was strange to see people shift the goal posts from 6 months a go, when some were saying that we should be getting 3rd and are in with a shout of being involved with the title race - basically saying that those that wanted 3rd as a realistic target should be aiming for the same under AVB as we are no worse than we were then.

i tried to show you why i think that is wrong - why me thinking we should have got 3rd last season does not mean i should be expecting the same from a new manager - I am not shifting the goal posts - things have changed at the Club which means we are not in the same position (to be demanding 3rd or whatever) as we were 6 months a go and our targets have to naturally change, for the time being at least - it has nothing to do with favoring one manager over the other - which you have implied several times is the case
 
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Kingdawson said:
GHod it's that easy isn't it. I mean we don't have to consider the fact that we're probably going to go with a new system, new tactics, new players (a starting CB that hasn't even played in this league before), a new manager, and probably a new starting CM replacing Luka.
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"New tactics?"
You mean "tactics" right? Other than AC Milan I frankly don't remember an enormous accent on tactics more than I remember a highly talented squad being sent out to perform.Put it this way, in Madrud, when it wen its up in 14 mins, we lacked a plan B (or "a Chelski")...
 
Against Arsenal, the first few times we faced them under Harry, he got it tactically perfect.

We conceeded possession in wide areas because we knew they had nothing from those positions. We let them have the ball, at will, until the came into our half. We defended with a very deep line in two solid banks to restrict them to pot shots from range - then when we had the chance Bale and Lennon were immediate counter attacking outlets - often with VDV already hanging on the periphery of our game to join the passes.

Harry showed an excellent approach to these games, thoughtful and betraying real preparation.

Its a shame he didnt that this approach more often, IMO
 
thfcsteff said:
"New tactics?"
You mean "tactics" right? Other than AC Milan I frankly don't remember an enormous accent on tactics more than I remember a highly talented squad being sent out to perform.Put it this way, in Madrud, when it wen its up in 14 mins, we lacked a plan B (or "a Chelski")...
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careful , you're making it sound like us dominating game, possession and sticking a shed load of goals in the nets is eomthing that came without any sort of real coaching help.

which would mean that with all that in tow PLUS this next level coaching being provided by AVB we would be SIGNIFICANTLY better than anything we have ever seen under the Harry regime

like i said, its comments like that idea we didnt employ tactics under Harry that sets me to question what exactly AVB is going to bring

is the wonky not a tactic?
 
The idea that we had no tactics and never got anything right under Redknapp is just not even worth discussion.

What I would like to see AVB do, that imo would be different from Redknapp is

- Work more on the % side of the game, specifically set pieces, fitness, midfield/strikers attacking the box.
- Having more of a system where the loss of one or two players does not immediately require a completely different style of playing.
- Better use of squad/rotation/subs, either in game or as applies to Cup games
 
The Moonlit Knight said:
I think it's safe to say that many people who wanted AVB to take over (long before the previous Manager was removed) are down playing our chances this season. Which is fine, except many of those are the same people who last year were demanding better from what we achieved. Already we're reading things like "The squad isn't as good as last year", "it's his debut season so he deserves slack", "the actual results next year don't matter as long as we're demonstrating that we have a long term plan in place" etc etc
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Seem to be arguing a lot mate , come on lighten up
 
Raziel said:
The idea that we had no tactics and never got anything right under Redknapp is just not even worth discussion.

What I would like to see AVB do, that imo would be different from Redknapp is

- Work more on the % side of the game, specifically set pieces, fitness, midfield/strikers attacking the box.
- Having more of a system where the loss of one or two players does not immediately require a completely different style of playing.
- Better use of squad/rotation/subs, either in game or as applies to Cup games
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Good post, agree with this.
 
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