Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

[Nigeyman]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

you say this but then i get accused of being hostile, people complain and it tallies up... i cant guage anymore whats considered hostile and offensive...and i probably wont get a warning before i am banned so best to play it safe

but either way your post appeared to have covered most parts but i disagree with quite a few of the points, not least of which are you examples of CB v skillful players,...jagielka is not in dawson's mould / CB type....terry however is and he is diabolical against speedy quick and skillful players.

the grass is always greener etc, i feel thats why you have this false idea that terry and vidic are good versus fast skillful people...that and the possibility that you dont watch chelsea as much a you do us

dont know what conversations you have been having recently mate....as I havent been able to get on here recently as much as i would like.

you may well be right or me.....but im not a poster on here that will hold a grudge if someone disagrees with me........I only ask you people who disagree state 'why' and give measured reasoning to their arguments which you have done.

you wont change my mind regarding Dawson and I wont persist trying to change yours.....

Fundamentally we disagree but remain supporters of the mighty spurs.........so its all good + plus the fact you have been contributing to this forum longer than me.....so there is no vendetta or agenda from me....you replied to my post and asked questions and I tried to back up my opinions.

I wouldnt like a forum of nodding dogs where we all agree on every issue every time.

please dont feel I am accusing you of hostility or that I am complaining.......if I had an issue with anyone I would post it to them before I complained anyway.....but it would have to be very personal and offensive towards me....its only words on a screen at the end of the day.

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Thanks. My comment wasn't aimed exclusively at you! Indeed your views are less extreme than most who criticise Dawson.

I agree that he is far from perfect, but AVB clearly values him, as he changed his mind about shipping him out and confirmed him as Captain.

For me, there is no player more committed to the club than Dawson.

and therin lies the crux for me...I agree about his devotion and commitment to the shirt which is why it is actually difficult for me to say these things regarding Dawson.....A player who I met briefly and was good enough to turn round when my partner shouted his name and had his picture taken with us.

my point is (thankfully im not) but if I was AVB Dawson would not be my first choice.

he is a prem footballer so you will never here me call him doo doo....I just stated my opinion that he looks uncomfortable in our high line system and it makes him look bad....akin to terry when avb was in charge there.

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

top level team fighting for trophies?

where did you get that idea about us?

based on what exactly? cause history and form over the past 20 years points to the fact that he is exactly on our level...if YOU want to get to the top, as in go there from where we actually are, then maybe along with the strong defense that Dawson has been a part of for like 5 to 7 years....you might think about improving other aspects of the team first? i dont know , like , maybe the 26 million pound ready made striker that doesnt seem to get nearly as involved as the top teams strikers do

just a suggestion. the unit that has been doing well for us over so many years is the one you want to change. but you are semi okay with the quality of the players involved in the biggest proportions of a football match (wide men, playmakers, midfelders, "No 10s", etc)

why not change the midfield and get some proper serious world class footballers first?

The idea stems from the fact that we are a 'nearly team' full of potential. we are really close to being a top level team bringing home the bacon (trophies)

just imagine if you and me perhaps Dubaispur, stinkfoot, steff, Bol, mumorn......imagine we all sat down to ananlyse our squad and we all could cull a couple of players or we had to agree where our main weakness was and agree a solution to fix the problem I doubt we all would agree but we all agree that we want the best for the club we love to compete and win trophies.

we want sucess and sometimes that means horrible choices difficult decisions.

where do we draw the line between love for old favourites......as in lennon and Dawson and Defoe and when do we finally admit like Hudd perhaps that they are good players but one notch down of the calibre of player that we need to really compete??????

I only want the spurs to be the best I can be.....If I percieve an area or problem I will identify it.......but it doesnt mean im necessarily right....as you and others have said where sticking up for Dawson....

I respect Loyalty and devotion to a player who has shown the same to us........not that I rate Woy but there is a reason why Dawson isnt in the england set up......it may be that woy and his coaching staff share similar views to mine.

 

[Modric THFC]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Pleased to see someone sticking up for Dawson. The level of unjustified criticism on here and on twitter is, frankly, unbelievable.
Keeps clean sheets in 6 of 11 games, then we concede 6 up at Emirates Marketing Project where Kaboul starts his first match for 18 months and its all Dawson's fault and he should be shipped out???
For what its worth I think he has improved massively as a footballer - able to bring it down on his chest and chooses when to pass into a congested midfield, when to play square and when to hit the long diagonal.
John Terry looks great for Chelsea because he's well protected but when he played for England he looked the same as Dawson at that level, clumsy and slow.
Distin has pace so not the same type as Daws.
Martin Skrtel is a bit of a laughing stock at times - 2 own goals in a match? How long would he last at Spurs?!

Also all the other centre-halves seem to get a free pass?
Verthongen consistently makes mistakes when playing a centre-half, positionally, over playing on the ball or just lack of concentration. But because he's a tidy footballer = free pass.
Chiriches is another fabulous footballer on the ball but he has a tendency to make the odd mistake dwelling on the ball when he should be clearing it etc etc. He also lacks pace but seems to have good positional sense to get him out of trouble. Again NOT perfect.
Kaboul seems to get a free pass because as with most players when out injured their perceived ability increases three-fold. Its either that or the fact that his raw physique/attributes outstrips Dawson's by some way. Performances on the pitch suggest otherwise to me.

All four of them are prone to making horrible individual mistakes and are not getting free passes.
But Dawson simply cant handle players running at him. What he's good at is defending a packed penalty. He will frequently miracle the ball away with some last ditch effort.
But we play with a high line with team counter attacking us. He simply isn't suited to how we play.
I'd play him ahead of Kaboul though he was horrible against City. I'm not sure he can return to being the player he was before his injury.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Agreed. My issue is with those who wish to abandon the system way in advance of any time frame that is even vaguely reasonable.

Few would argue that Ferguson is one of the greatest managers ever to have graced the English football scene - the same could likely be said about Burkinshaw and Nicholson. If they couldn't complete their objectives in under 1.5 years then why should we expect anyone else to?

A fair point and I agree with it, although football is a different monster nowadays due to the incredible amounts of money on the line.

I'm not sure there are points that you or I could see watching from the stands that are measurable objectives in such a project. If you can think of any reasonably, objective, measurable signs then I'd be interested to hear of them.?

That's kind of my point. No one really truely knows what the objectives are. I would (again) assume that since Levy is the chairman of our club and it's a club which is steeped in a tradition of playing attractive forward thinking football, that he would like to see the fans/other fans the media talking about the attractive way we are playing. This is good for the club. It just depends on how long it will take AVB to make it happen. My problem is that after 1.5 years there have been no signs whatsoever of it happening. That's not to say it won't happen eventually but as a fan it's getting frustrating for me to be continually bored watching my own team play.

Quite right. I think much of the problem with AVB comes from patience. I am willing to wait for a longer-term plan to come to fruition - we've cancelled too many of them part way through in my lifetime. Some aren't - some want instant success and for us to instantly play the way they want. We could probably achieve that for one year but even trying (without the guarantee of success) would probably hamper our attempts to repeat the feat for a number of years. Added to which, a single successful season (by our standards) still doesn't involve guarantee any trophies.

Although it probably sounds like I'm not, I am actually in agreement with you here, however I want our long term plan to include us playing attractive football. My concern is that it's not a) One of the objectives of the club or b) Possible with AVB as manager because of his style of management and footballing philosophy.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

All four of them are prone to making horrible individual mistakes and are not getting free passes.
But Dawson simply cant handle players running at him. What he's good at is defending a packed penalty. He will frequently miracle the ball away with some last ditch effort.
But we play with a high line with team counter attacking us. He simply isn't suited to how we play.
I'd play him ahead of Kaboul though he was horrible against City. I'm not sure he can return to being the player he was before his injury.

Dawson is the epitome of the stereotypical English centre back which is the juggernaut type. Strong in the tackle, good in the air and prone to think their brazilian with the passing.

I love him as a player as he plays with his heart on his sleeve but all it takes is a defender to play off his shoulder and he is screwed and its been numerous occasions this season that has cost us I'm afraid.

If wellbeck was half decent he would have done better when he skinned him on Sunday and its no coincidence that when Dawson went for a clearance/pass on wednesday he ave the ball away (it wasn't easy and he looked like he slipped).

But he love the club and although his lack of quality is fair to criticise I don't think you can fault his efforts or enthusiasm.

As you say he just doesn't suit our game.

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Dawson is the epitome of the stereotypical English centre back which is the juggernaut type. Strong in the tackle, good in the air and prone to think their brazilian with the passing.

I love him as a player as he plays with his heart on his sleeve but all it takes is a defender to play off his shoulder and he is screwed and its been numerous occasions this season that has cost us I'm afraid.

If wellbeck was half decent he would have done better when he skinned him on Sunday and its no coincidence that when Dawson went for a clearance/pass on wednesday he ave the ball away (it wasn't easy and he looked like he slipped).

But he love the club and although his lack of quality is fair to criticise I don't think you can fault his efforts or enthusiasm.

As you say he just doesn't suit our game.

agree with all of this, especially bolded part.

 

[Raziel]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Amazing amount of time spent dwelling on a defender when our problem is really scoring goals.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Dawson is my favourite player at the club, I get the feeling he cares as much as I do, but I can see against certain players he will struggle and possibly cost us a game or two. To progress as a club we need a better player than him but with his attitude. I can't think of any that we have a chance of signing at present. If Kaboul is fit I would give him a run, but I'm not sure he's that much better.

 

[AdamB]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

we are really close to being a top level team bringing home the bacon (trophies)

Would you accept us play the dire, turgid football which we currently do if it meant being a top 4 team? Personally, I wouldnt. I dont mind either:

- finishing 5th but playing great, attacking football OR
- finishing 4th but playing ok football

At the moment we're playing some of the worst stuff even seen at WHL and not succeeding either. I dont think I could put up with it even if we were 4th. I actually think the brand of football we're playing at the moment is worse than we played under George Graham or even through the dark years of the 1990s. Under Graham we at least threatened the opposition goal and in the 1990s we had the excuse that the players were generally ****e! But today we have an immensely talented squad and probably the most talented squad/team which we're had since 1987 (as far back as I go, was born in 1978) yet the entertainment value is desperately, desperately poor and that comes down to the tactics

 

[mudshark]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I can't help liking Dawson; I was pleased he wasn't moved on in the summer and managed to play his way back into the team, but he still drives me crazy with the number of unforced errors he makes — particularly his unerring ability to find an opposition player in a central or other dangerous position with a clearance.

 

[DHSF]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

You guys are so ****ing funny.

Do you expect every one of our squad players to be this cultured, technically gifted world class player? Get a grip. A squad is not about having 25 such players but a mixture, a combination of different types of players who when fit together make up a great squad. You cant have four Ledley Kings at the back for example, you need to have those blood and thunder type players mixed in.

The composition of the skill set of our squad is important and that composition encompasses players like Dawson whilst having someone like Chichires

Blimey.

 

[Seedy Ron]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Amazing amount of time spent dwelling on a defender when our problem is really scoring goals.

This.

We've conceded 18 goals in all competitions this season, and we let 9 of them in in two games. I'd say by and large the defence, including Daws, are doing sterling work for us, and at the very least giving us a chance to win the vast majority of games.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Would you accept us play the dire, turgid football which we currently do if it meant being a top 4 team? Personally, I wouldnt. I dont mind either:

- finishing 5th but playing great, attacking football OR
- finishing 4th but playing ok football

At the moment we're playing some of the worst stuff even seen at WHL and not succeeding either. I dont think I could put up with it even if we were 4th. I actually think the brand of football we're playing at the moment is worse than we played under George Graham or even through the dark years of the 1990s. Under Graham we at least threatened the opposition goal and in the 1990s we had the excuse that the players were generally ****e! But today we have an immensely talented squad and probably the most talented squad/team which we're had since 1987 (as far back as I go, was born in 1978) yet the entertainment value is desperately, desperately poor and that comes down to the tactics

Utter, utter, utter rubbish.

 

[Modric THFC]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Amazing amount of time spent dwelling on a defender when our problem is really scoring goals.

Nope our problem area is our central midfield. Cant create, cant dictate games and offered no protection to the back four lately neither.

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Would you accept us play the dire, turgid football which we currently do if it meant being a top 4 team? Personally, I wouldnt. I dont mind either:

- finishing 5th but playing great, attacking football OR
- finishing 4th but playing ok football

At the moment we're playing some of the worst stuff even seen at WHL and not succeeding either. I dont think I could put up with it even if we were 4th. I actually think the brand of football we're playing at the moment is worse than we played under George Graham or even through the dark years of the 1990s. Under Graham we at least threatened the opposition goal and in the 1990s we had the excuse that the players were generally ****e! But today we have an immensely talented squad and probably the most talented squad/team which we're had since 1987 (as far back as I go, was born in 1978) yet the entertainment value is desperately, desperately poor and that comes down to the tactics

Wow! worse than Graham's football.......lets be sensible......

I will say some on here need to stop collobarate and listen......just because we have gone out and bought expensive gizmo's doesnt mean we fully understand them yet or how to operate them to maximum efficiency.

In answer to your question I would choose turgid footie securing 4th over excitment ending in fifth because I understand what 4th place...potential ucl cash can do for OUR club in the future!!!!!!!!!! its about the long game not just the here and now for me.

We are not playing the worst stuff since the age of Dinosaurs...we are trying to integrate 7 new players and overcome language barriers while at the same time forging an understanding of a system......however complex that may be.

to all the peeps who bleat about the money spent.......did it happen immediatley for Chelsea??? or more so Emirates Marketing Project??? Robinho and so on? it took 2-3 years of hefty spending to come good in terms of trophies......chelsea 2 after tinker man left.

in the future i do not accept boring turgid football as the spurs way of course not.......if we have to bump and grind for a bit to achieve what WE MUST DO to remain in touch with the big boys then lets do it.....this season is clearly transitional again with massive squad upheaval and im desperate for ucl so our club can grow and ease into new statdium.

I have faith that we will get there...I can see the signs and the players are coming out and looking like they are behind AVB....

I appreciate things take time and get disapointed when I percieve our fans acting like spoilt brats because we arent playing like 1970's Holland.

turgid peformances or not some of our support especially at whl need to read the menaing of the word supporter!!!!!!

The entertainment value comes down to cohesivness and foregn players getting used to the league, manager, tactics.

Hate this new no patience instant results/peformances expected society sometimes.

Basically I want us to improve - i will give avb time to see if he can mould our individuals into a team....I think how he has done so far he deserves that chance.

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Amazing amount of time spent dwelling on a defender when our problem is really scoring goals.

I covered defoe & ade said about reinvesting.

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Nope our problem area is our central midfield. Cant create, cant dictate games and offered no protection to the back four lately neither.

perhaps everyone should point out the weakness areas and 3 players they want out in order of priority....

midfield is not the major problem area for me though a nice little passer that I think we need is hopefully developing under arry at qpr.

so weaknesses. 1. up front move on from ade and defoe- different options to solly...young strikers...hungry with potential.
2. lb we need another left back to compliment our system.
3. Defence (dawson) for reasons stated

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Utter, utter, utter rubbish.

Yea, just wow at that comment!

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

You guys are so ****ing funny.

Do you expect every one of our squad players to be this cultured, technically gifted world class player? Get a grip. A squad is not about having 25 such players but a mixture, a combination of different types of players who when fit together make up a great squad. You cant have four Ledley Kings at the back for example, you need to have those blood and thunder type players mixed in.

The composition of the skill set of our squad is important and that composition encompasses players like Dawson whilst having someone like Chichires

Blimey.

agree with your sentiments....and the majority of your post.

yet we have had years of Dawson.....years of his commitment and solid peformances I grant you.
and more recently periods of times when he has looked out of his depth and cost us games.

You may be exasperated with my views but I am ready to draw a line under players I fell fondly for over more sucess.

we are in a position to upgrade on defoe,ade and Dawson, I believe and im entitled to my opinion that if we replaced the three with (herin lies the rub) better quality we will achieve better results.

Blimey indeed that I would like us to stop persisting with players who are not suited to the system we are playing.