Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own
It pretty much depends on who Levy and Baldini put in charge next year.
It pretty much depends on who Levy and Baldini put in charge next year.
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Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach
- Thread starter Bale
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mudshark
Chris Armstrong
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***
I'll admit to having felt as though I was losing the will to live during some of our home games this season, and, with the players we've got, in common with some others, I can't believe that our style manages to be quite this stultifying without that being by design. We've seen evidence that it doesn't necessarily need to be so, and I have to confess that I'm at a loss to understand why we can't relax the terms more often and get ourselves into more comfortable places. We do seem to be at a certain stage in an experiment, like it or not. The question is whether we care to hang around for the result, bearing in mind that it may turn out to be a big, fat negative. Clearly, some are on board and some aren't. I'm genuinely ambivalent at present. I can see it improving as the pieces all start to fall into place; equally, I can see it all ending in tears before bedtime. In terms of the prospects for this season, I really don't know what to think at this point. I think I trust AVB to sort it, though.
I'll admit to having felt as though I was losing the will to live during some of our home games this season, and, with the players we've got, in common with some others, I can't believe that our style manages to be quite this stultifying without that being by design. We've seen evidence that it doesn't necessarily need to be so, and I have to confess that I'm at a loss to understand why we can't relax the terms more often and get ourselves into more comfortable places. We do seem to be at a certain stage in an experiment, like it or not. The question is whether we care to hang around for the result, bearing in mind that it may turn out to be a big, fat negative. Clearly, some are on board and some aren't. I'm genuinely ambivalent at present. I can see it improving as the pieces all start to fall into place; equally, I can see it all ending in tears before bedtime. In terms of the prospects for this season, I really don't know what to think at this point. I think I trust AVB to sort it, though.
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***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***
From the *put your tongue behind your bottom lip, screw your face up a bit and go "uuuuurrrrrgghhh"* thread:
This isn't aimed at you Rossi, but this is why I don't think AVB can ever succeed properly in the eyes of football fans.
As a group, fans are largely working class and poorly educated. With that often comes an inherent distrust of those who are intelligent, educated, well presented, eloquent, etc.
That natural distrust will mean that AVB will always struggle to win over a noisy minority of fans no matter how well he does.
I'm not sure there's really a criticism there though - I'm guilty of the reverse when it comes to the likes of Redknapp. I have a natural distrust of fat, stupid people, and they have to be better than others to win me over.
From the *put your tongue behind your bottom lip, screw your face up a bit and go "uuuuurrrrrgghhh"* thread:
Rossi22 said:
This isn't aimed at you Rossi, but this is why I don't think AVB can ever succeed properly in the eyes of football fans.
As a group, fans are largely working class and poorly educated. With that often comes an inherent distrust of those who are intelligent, educated, well presented, eloquent, etc.
That natural distrust will mean that AVB will always struggle to win over a noisy minority of fans no matter how well he does.
I'm not sure there's really a criticism there though - I'm guilty of the reverse when it comes to the likes of Redknapp. I have a natural distrust of fat, stupid people, and they have to be better than others to win me over.
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own
I posted this a couple of weeks ago or more but will say it again, in bullet points.
1) AVB, as a 36 year old learning his trade under huge pressure, is absolutely making sure we are tight defensively first. And that is smart. Because look at the whinging as it is now…imagine what that would be like if we were leaking goals like a sieve!!!!!
2) It is obvious that whilst he has 7 new players to integrate, as well as the necessity of finding some 35+ goals he does not have this season (Bale and Dempsey) his stance has been to make us very difficult to beat whilst he works out the best way to attack.
3) He has absolutely come under more pressure in the last few weeks, and very unfairly IMO, thus yes, being the type of guy he appears to be, I'd say he's feeling pressure and thus getting even tighter.
4) I believe if he is TRUSTED he will DELIVER on ALL fronts in the coming months.
5) I am DELIGHTED that Dembele isn't happy he is not one of the first names on the sheet. Fantastic. Competition.
6) Paulinho gets into the box a lot more than people seem to realize. He is a more direct footballer than Dembele, and for me, that is the MAJOR difference between them (although I tab him as much as Dembele with the Newcash goal, that bottled-tackle in the middle was simply awful and cannot happen again).
7) I wholly trust AVB to find the creative keys/ways to get goals in the back of the net. In fairness, we should've beaten Saudi Sportswashing Machine by 3 or 4, and in games such as Norwich, we carved them open time and time again only for poor decisions/poor finishing.
The biggest problem we face is the restlessness of small factions of our supporters IMO...
I posted this a couple of weeks ago or more but will say it again, in bullet points.
1) AVB, as a 36 year old learning his trade under huge pressure, is absolutely making sure we are tight defensively first. And that is smart. Because look at the whinging as it is now…imagine what that would be like if we were leaking goals like a sieve!!!!!
2) It is obvious that whilst he has 7 new players to integrate, as well as the necessity of finding some 35+ goals he does not have this season (Bale and Dempsey) his stance has been to make us very difficult to beat whilst he works out the best way to attack.
3) He has absolutely come under more pressure in the last few weeks, and very unfairly IMO, thus yes, being the type of guy he appears to be, I'd say he's feeling pressure and thus getting even tighter.
4) I believe if he is TRUSTED he will DELIVER on ALL fronts in the coming months.
5) I am DELIGHTED that Dembele isn't happy he is not one of the first names on the sheet. Fantastic. Competition.
6) Paulinho gets into the box a lot more than people seem to realize. He is a more direct footballer than Dembele, and for me, that is the MAJOR difference between them (although I tab him as much as Dembele with the Newcash goal, that bottled-tackle in the middle was simply awful and cannot happen again).
7) I wholly trust AVB to find the creative keys/ways to get goals in the back of the net. In fairness, we should've beaten Saudi Sportswashing Machine by 3 or 4, and in games such as Norwich, we carved them open time and time again only for poor decisions/poor finishing.
The biggest problem we face is the restlessness of small factions of our supporters IMO...
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own
Have you visited the You Are The Manager thread? Go on. I want to see what you would do and how you'd do it. I always thought a key/core start to winning matches was to have control of the ball a lot more than the other fellas...
We're still waiting on the 433 AVB is supposed to prefer because he played it one season in Portugal
Actually the way i see it AVB is managing as if he's still in Portugal. He has his team set up to do well against rival teams, hasn't put any thought into playing lesser teams and expects us to pummel them into submission by default.
Have you visited the You Are The Manager thread? Go on. I want to see what you would do and how you'd do it. I always thought a key/core start to winning matches was to have control of the ball a lot more than the other fellas...
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own
The pair of them gave Saudi Sportswashing Machine a goal, starting with Moussa forgetting he was 15 yards deeper than he thought and attempting to dribble from just outside his own box. That started it. Then Paulinho bottled the tackle which really ****ed me off (and I love the bloke)…comedy of errors…
The pair of them gave Saudi Sportswashing Machine a goal, starting with Moussa forgetting he was 15 yards deeper than he thought and attempting to dribble from just outside his own box. That started it. Then Paulinho bottled the tackle which really ****ed me off (and I love the bloke)…comedy of errors…
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***
Similarly I think some of us are still believing in AVB because he looks the part.
I was fullly behind AVB until recently because he looks the part.
Similarly I think some of us are still believing in AVB because he looks the part.
I was fullly behind AVB until recently because he looks the part.
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
africanspurs
Justin Edinburgh
Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own
but then why not merge it together
alot of points and entertainment is lost in that other thread now.
i might just copy and past a couple of goodies
but then why not merge it together
alot of points and entertainment is lost in that other thread now.
i might just copy and past a couple of goodies
milo
Jack L. Jones
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***
I'm getting bored of saying this but if you want to discuss how we moderate the board please PM one of us.
I'm getting bored of saying this but if you want to discuss how we moderate the board please PM one of us.
braineclipse
Willie Hall
Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own
I agree, this is what it says to me.
And I disagree that replacing Dembele with someone more clearly defensive like Sandro necessarily makes us a more defensive team. A proper defensive midfielder like Sandro can give others more freedom to attack.
Paulinho is not a natural defensive midfielder and he's not been playing as a defensive midfielder when next to Sandro/Capoue at least. When playing next to Dembele the two of them have more or less interchanged and taken turns in the different roles. Replacing that with a more dedicated defensive player like Sandro and a more dedicated box to box player in Paulinho doesn't make us more defensive either.
I agree, this is what it says to me.
And I disagree that replacing Dembele with someone more clearly defensive like Sandro necessarily makes us a more defensive team. A proper defensive midfielder like Sandro can give others more freedom to attack.
Paulinho is not a natural defensive midfielder and he's not been playing as a defensive midfielder when next to Sandro/Capoue at least. When playing next to Dembele the two of them have more or less interchanged and taken turns in the different roles. Replacing that with a more dedicated defensive player like Sandro and a more dedicated box to box player in Paulinho doesn't make us more defensive either.
Hully
Tony Parks
Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own
He's had 73 games in charge. He has his 4-2-3-1 system which he used at Chelsea and now he's using here. He's been trying to get it to work for 2 and a half seasons, no sign of it ever doing so.
We're still waiting on the 433 AVB is supposed to prefer because he played it one season in Portugal
Actually the way i see it AVB is managing as if he's still in Portugal. He has his team set up to do well against rival teams, hasn't put any thought into playing lesser teams and expects us to pummel them into submission by default.
He's had 73 games in charge. He has his 4-2-3-1 system which he used at Chelsea and now he's using here. He's been trying to get it to work for 2 and a half seasons, no sign of it ever doing so.
braineclipse
Willie Hall
Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own
If I accepted every premise and assumption you make for the sake of argument where do you get two and a half seasons from?
If I accepted every premise and assumption you make for the sake of argument where do you get two and a half seasons from?
Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own
Just because Sky Sports has to show our formation as a 4-2-3-1 to make all the pretty graphics fit, it doesn't mean that's what we play.
In order to play a 4-2-3-1 you need one of the following:
2 DMs
1 DM and 1 deep-lying playmaker
We don't own a deep-lying playmaker and we've only got 2 DMs in our entire squad - Sandro & Capoue. They have never (to my knowledge) played together.
Just because Sky Sports has to show our formation as a 4-2-3-1 to make all the pretty graphics fit, it doesn't mean that's what we play.
In order to play a 4-2-3-1 you need one of the following:
2 DMs
1 DM and 1 deep-lying playmaker
We don't own a deep-lying playmaker and we've only got 2 DMs in our entire squad - Sandro & Capoue. They have never (to my knowledge) played together.
Kingdawson
Banned
Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own
Some might argue that Paulinho and Dembele have been deployed as DM's. Dembele certainly has and Paulinho has also been playing in a deep position.
Some might argue that Paulinho and Dembele have been deployed as DM's. Dembele certainly has and Paulinho has also been playing in a deep position.
Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own
Some might argue that the sky is green - it would make them very wrong though. I'd argue that neither have - hence our improved performances with Sandro in the team.
Dembele has been picking the ball up from deep but not staying there. Paulinho's been playing in front of whoever he has paired with - whether that's Sandro or Dembele.
**EDIT**
The below picture looks to me like the very definition of a 'box to box' midfielder. In fact he goes past that line of the edge of the opposition's box quite a few times.
Some might argue that the sky is green - it would make them very wrong though. I'd argue that neither have - hence our improved performances with Sandro in the team.
Dembele has been picking the ball up from deep but not staying there. Paulinho's been playing in front of whoever he has paired with - whether that's Sandro or Dembele.
**EDIT**
The below picture looks to me like the very definition of a 'box to box' midfielder. In fact he goes past that line of the edge of the opposition's box quite a few times.
braineclipse
Willie Hall
Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own
I disagree, perhaps pedantically.
I think what we have been playing can be described as a 4-2-3-1 and that a 4-2-3-1 can contain a defensive midfielder and a box to box player (Sandro and Paulinho for example) or a "double pivot" system (Dembele and Paulinho). (Double pivot described by zonal marking as: The use of two holding midfielders, taking it in turns to move forward, rather than one being given the job of staying in a defensive position at all times.)
This assumes that formations are more described by how a team defends when organized than how it looks when attacking. When we have been defending it's been with two deep midfielders considerably deeper than the one player in the hole (Eriksen/Holtby) most of the time.
This I agree with fully. The description of Paulinho as a defensive midfielder or his role for us being that of a defensive midfielder continues to baffle me. It's been brought up quite a few times and I'm yet to see anyone put together a to me even half way cogent argument supporting this assertion, although that doesn't mean one hasn't been made of course.
I disagree, perhaps pedantically.
I think what we have been playing can be described as a 4-2-3-1 and that a 4-2-3-1 can contain a defensive midfielder and a box to box player (Sandro and Paulinho for example) or a "double pivot" system (Dembele and Paulinho). (Double pivot described by zonal marking as: The use of two holding midfielders, taking it in turns to move forward, rather than one being given the job of staying in a defensive position at all times.)
This assumes that formations are more described by how a team defends when organized than how it looks when attacking. When we have been defending it's been with two deep midfielders considerably deeper than the one player in the hole (Eriksen/Holtby) most of the time.
Some might argue that the sky is green - it would make them very wrong though. I'd argue that neither have - hence our improved performances with Sandro in the team.
Dembele has been picking the ball up from deep but not staying there. Paulinho's been playing in front of whoever he has paired with - whether that's Sandro or Dembele.
**EDIT**
The below picture looks to me like the very definition of a 'box to box' midfielder. In fact he goes past that line of the edge of the opposition's box quite a few times.
This I agree with fully. The description of Paulinho as a defensive midfielder or his role for us being that of a defensive midfielder continues to baffle me. It's been brought up quite a few times and I'm yet to see anyone put together a to me even half way cogent argument supporting this assertion, although that doesn't mean one hasn't been made of course.
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Kingdawson
Banned
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***
tbh i don't care one bit for these dashboard stats and prefer to use my eyes. Paulinho collects the ball from deep an awful lot...yes he also bursts forward i agree and yes there were games where he played slightly forward but he's also been used as a defensive player and that is clear to me.
How anyone can argue that Dembele isn't being deployed as a dm i will never know. Picking it up from deep but not staying there? that's not true.
tbh i don't care one bit for these dashboard stats and prefer to use my eyes. Paulinho collects the ball from deep an awful lot...yes he also bursts forward i agree and yes there were games where he played slightly forward but he's also been used as a defensive player and that is clear to me.
How anyone can argue that Dembele isn't being deployed as a dm i will never know. Picking it up from deep but not staying there? that's not true.
Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***
Those dashboard stats are what you see with your eyes but with the bias and memory failings removed.
Vs West Ham:
http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...er-stats/39104/OVERALL_02#tabs-wrapper-anchor
Vs Chelsea:
http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...er-stats/39104/OVERALL_02#tabs-wrapper-anchor
Vs Cardiff:
http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...er-stats/39104/OVERALL_02#tabs-wrapper-anchor
In all of those he was the most deep-lying of the two midfielders we used but as you can see was a long way from being played as a DM in any of them. The only match I could find where he was played as a DM was Saudi Sportswashing Machine and he was taken off pretty early then.
Those dashboard stats are what you see with your eyes but with the bias and memory failings removed.
Vs West Ham:
http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...er-stats/39104/OVERALL_02#tabs-wrapper-anchor
Vs Chelsea:
http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...er-stats/39104/OVERALL_02#tabs-wrapper-anchor
Vs Cardiff:
http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...er-stats/39104/OVERALL_02#tabs-wrapper-anchor
In all of those he was the most deep-lying of the two midfielders we used but as you can see was a long way from being played as a DM in any of them. The only match I could find where he was played as a DM was Saudi Sportswashing Machine and he was taken off pretty early then.