Jurgen the German
Tommy Harmer
Replying to some of your points Suiyha (bold-face replies)...I have left the training ground one alone because it is a matter of pure opinion, but I would say anyone moving house or office, even when it's an upgrade, would attest that a 'bedding in/transitional period' is natural.
So, in the spirit of debate my friend...
The fact is neither manager has done as well thus far this season.
You don't replace Luka Modric. You find players to compensate/help you attain another type of midfield dominance. Remember, AVB wanted him at Chelski. Dembele is superb, but he is not a Modric-type player, which means our side has to get used to playing in a different way. Dempsey and Sigurdsson allowed us to sell VdV, and I'm not overly disappointed. As great as Rafa could be, we relied on him to just 'conjure' out of nothing too much. I would've been happy if he'd been here as an option, but not as THE option. So in that sense, happy with that situation. As for the filth signing two players that were massive backwards steps from VP, well mate, unless they spunked 60 mill on Falcao or Villa, that's how it was always going to be! I find it intriguing that you failed to mention Cazorla...not a bad player is he?! As for Chelski, they signed Oscar, Hazard, Marin and Moses to add to players such as Torres and Mata. They let Lukakau go on loan. They have spent massive amounts of money, thus if they haven't got it right it's because of the balance of their players versus decisions to let projected replacements play elsewhere. This then becomes a footballing matter. Theirs has not been due to lack of options, it's been due to some bizarre choices.
King was irreplaceable. I agree, last season, once he hit the wall, he hit it hard. It's a shame. The injury was being managed very well, and then he just overplayed a bit. Verts was a very clever signing and helped us maintain some quality, but I would dispute that we have moved forward more than managed to find a quality replacement for a player who really only started hitting the brick wall in January. Arsenal sold Song because Wenger, for some bizarre reason, felt that Diaby would be fit! He loves Diaby, and I can see why, for when he's fit he's excellent, but alas, it was not to be. Still, he has Wheelchair, Arteta, Cazorla, Ramsey, Oxeldade-Chamberlin and Walcott, so I'm not crying for him. Again, he made choices. Remember, AVB did not have ANY choice with Modric.
Sorry mate, you're wrong here. The stats show that Ade has started 4 Premier League games and come on as sub in 5. That's 9 out of 17. Not nearly most of our games. Dembele has started 8 Prem games and come on as sub in 2. That's 10 out of 17, a little closer as it is barely over half. In each case, take the sub appearances out and it is less than half. So far as Sandro is concerned, I love him, but we don't know whether AVB would've played Parker over him (player of the season last season remember!) and we will never know because AVB didn't have the choice and had to get on with it. again, I agree that it's turned out well (and again, I love Sandro) but the manager had no choice but to get on with it and make it work. BTW, Sandro didn't always miss games last season because of injury.
I don't want to discuss the merits or not of the goons. Personally, I feel we are a better side, something I am sure would've been proven during the derby had Adebayor not been sent off, but it's academic because they ended up coating us! What I will say is that Wenger has been there for what, 17 years or something? One thing the club cannot complain about, is continuity. They have that. They have continuity and fluency with regards to management and philosophy at the club. In fact, they've been consistently under-achieving for 7 seasons! I would again say that everything they're going through has thus been about choice! I understand they have money to send, so if Wenger doesn't then its because he doesn't want to. Having said that, Giroud, Podolski and Cazorla weren't bargain-basement. The situation there is VASTLY different to ours.
Liverpool would be the closest comparison for me (although even there Rogers came into a club who lost LESS in the summer and less to the treatment room than we did and have) but let's look at it. Lucas is a loss for them, agreed. Sahin does not make them tick mate, sorry, that's just not really true is it. I would agree that having to use Henderson for much more than running to make the tea at HT is a tragedy, so Rogers gets a sympathy vote there, and he also gets one in the striking dept as he was absolutely shafted, so yes, agreed. I think Allen will come good for them, and I think Rogers is working very hard to build something. He does still have, in Suarez, Gerrard, that prick Agger and 'possibly' Johnson (I say 'possibly because I don't like him personally) 4 players of supposed top top quality. But I would agree that they do not have as good a squad as us.
Again, with Chelski it's choices!!!! Cahill and Luiz, between them, cost over thirty million quid I believe! Somewhere in that range anyway. And now Luiz is being used in midfield anyway ;-)...Lampard's experience could be the same as missing Parker's, except that it's largely been a choice not to play Lampard as opposed to a forced change, as for Sturridge, I'm not sure what the story is there. Has he been injured? But they've had options. Saudi Sportswashing Machine's injury problems have been bad. I feel sorry for Pardew. So yes, absolutely agree, not even close to last season due to injuries it would appear.
AVB doesn't ever complain, but he wanted Moutinho and didn't get him. Rumour suggests he also wanted Willian and we didn't get him. Rumour also suggested The Hulk and we didn't get him, though of those three that's the one that I would've thought was an absolute non-starter due to his astronomical wages! I also know he wanted Damiao, and the reason Ade came late was because we were still trying to get the Damiao deal done (a player he wanted and who we had provisionally struck a deal for pre-Olympics but Daniel dithered and the next thing, more money thus we didn't get it done). We did some good business for sure, but two of those players were in before he was and Dempsey was not a first-choice target. The goons and Song? Wenger made a choice, probably based on the fact that Song wasn't as important as some felt he was. You even said yourself that they were 'as close to a one-man team as you'd seen' last season mate, and that man was RVP.
Something that we have not had to deal with that our rivals have is a full scale fan revolt. Sure, we had a bit of booing at WHL in the early part of the season, it's nothing compared to the protests at Arsenal and Chelsea and the pressure from the media that has been thrown their way.
Most supporters have been smart, I agree, but some have simply not been able to move on and have dogged AVB's every step and move with some amazing criticisms without taking into context his situations. With regards to media pressure, I beg to differ. The man was under it every week for the first few months, with the media literally begging him to fail and looking for every excuse to try and make him crack/blow his gasket. The reason the pressure is off him is because of the work HE has done. You want a manager who's avoided pressure? Brendan Rogers. If he was anybody else, sorry, he'd have been massacred by now. With regards to Wenger, I think the criticisms are frankly ludicrous but I welcome themand as for cheatski, well, what can I say to that except yes, it helps when your rivals are run by madman.
The ONLY time people raise ANY of the things that AVB has had to contend with is when he is on the receiving end of ludicrous slaggings and observations which are made in the moment and without ANY context. Your spine...come ON duder! Lloris didn't play half the games due to some careful management, Daws is not a first-choice or has been hurt for most of the season, Walker has been until recently in some terrible terrible form (to the point where half the board wanted to drop him!). I agree, when fully fit and playing more than a few games together, Lloris, Walker, Verts, Lennon, Sandro, Bale and Defoe is a GREAT side (I don't count Caulker yet because I think we'll need to see whether he or Younes is considered the starter, but I agree, a great young prospect) but we have rarely been able to play them in back to back games. The fact remains that of all our rivals, we had the biggest upheaval in the summer. I don't think you could deny that fact.
You see, this final bit is where I realize we just view things with a fundamental difference. Last season Liverpool and Chelski were also not pulling up trees at this point of the season. Actually, neither were the goons! We've crept on them strongly the last two seasons, and what I think AVB deserves credit for is continuing that creeping up whilst having to deal with significant team shuffles from last season's starting 11 AND replacing an old philosophy with his own. THAT, to me, is worthy of praise.
I italicized a sentence of yours I did not understand. I'd love to know what you meant by it.
Best...
Sorry Steff, but Modric is not in the same class as Van Persie. I know they play in different positions, but Van Persie can win matches on his own, to say he has the midas touch would be an under statement! Modric is missed at WHL that's obvious, but were not the only team to have lost key players. They also lost Song who provided plenty of assists for the rapist last season.
I agree 100% Levy let AVB down by not getting Moutinho. But Rodgers was also mugged off by his bosses at Liverpool. He wouldn't have got rid of Carroll if he knew that he'd be down to 1 healthy senior striker.
As for injuries, once again, we are not the only ones who have suffered. You may argue ours have been worse, but it's all subjective. Liverpool as I mentioned have 1 available striker, Lucas missed virtually all of last season and hasn't featured much this season. Arsenal have had two keepers injured, plus Gibbs, Wheelchair, Diaby and Rosicky injured. Adebayor hasn't played because AVB hasn't been picking him and rightly so IMO, not down to injury.
I think AVB has done a good job so far, not a great job, not a bad job either. I've said all along that 5th place would be a good achievement for his first season, I won't go mad if we don't finish above Arsenal even though I feel we are slightly better because we haven't done it in so long, I really will be impressed if AVB pulls it off.
I'm all for fans getting behind the new manager, it would be stupid not to. But you say there are a number of fans who can't get over the sacking of the previous manager, probably true, but it works both ways, a lot of the fans who disliked Redknapp will leap to the defence of AVB anytime anything he does is questioned, you included. I'm still in the jury is out camp as to whether he will be a long term success at Spurs, but so far, he's done well.
