Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

[BrainOfLevy]

I think it's clear Chelsea should be far better off this year, not weaker. Hazard, Moses, Oscar, Marin. They simply should be stronger.

Arsenal have lost RVP and so should be weaker. They had a goalkeeping injury, but have they really had our problems? They are still putting out a core of players each week that do their jobs, they still have Arteta, Carzola etc.

Saudi Sportswashing Machine were a surprise package that have fallen down, but Everton are a team that were really consistent in the second half of last season and have improved still further. So there's more competition there. West Brom probably won't sustain their challenge.

I think on balance we've had more problems than Arsenal but at the same time I'd want to finish above them this year, I think last year was our big chance but this year I really think we can do it too.

 

[parklane1]

And it is also nothing new for any club. We have had plenty of injuries over the past few seasons, but still played well.

We have a good quality squad and there isnt a huge amount of difference between a lot of our players. In theory Adebayor has been the biggest loss in terms of improving our weaker areas, but when he does play we arent much better. It will be nice to have Kab, BAE and Parker back but I can see them doing very little to help our clueless attacking system at the moment.

If you really believe that then all i can say is its not the system that is clueless.

 

[markysimmo]

And it is also nothing new for any club. We have had plenty of injuries over the past few seasons, but still played well.

We have a good quality squad and there isnt a huge amount of difference between a lot of our players. In theory Adebayor has been the biggest loss in terms of improving our weaker areas, but when he does play we arent much better. It will be nice to have Kab, BAE and Parker back but I can see them doing very little to help our clueless attacking system at the moment.

Weve scored 30 goals in the league, only United, Emirates Marketing Project & Arsenal have scored more...

 

[Papercut]

If we're comparing the Goons versus us then a big factor is the length of time the managers have been at their respective side. Some goon fans will have you believe they are in a worse predicament in that respect.

 

[SUIYHA]

show me which of the teams above have had to contend with :

a new manager arriving - Liverpool and Chelsea. And this can be a good thing.

uprooting to a new training ground once the new season had started - How is that a bad thing???

selling their 2 most creative players - Arsenal were as close to a one man team as I've ever seen last season, they lost that one man, he was far better than Modric or Van Der Vaart were for us. And while we signed one of the best midfielders in the country in Dembele to replace Modric and got Dempsey and Sigurdsson to replace VdV, it was very clear from the beginning that Giroud and Podolski were both massive steps backwards from RVP. Chelsea sold Kalou and Meireles who were all first team regulars last season but replaced them with better players, however Drogba was arguably their best ever player and saved their season last time around, they didn't sign anyone at all to replace him.

losing their defensive lynch pin of 10+ years to retirement - King was the best defender we ever had, but he could hardly move at walking pace by the end of the season. Vertonghen is a much better option to have now so we have moved forward in that respect, Caulker has also impressed in King's position. This would be like Chelsea whinging that they lost Malouda and Essien in the summer, they were finished at this level and it was time to move them on. Whereas Arsenal sold Alex Song, who actually did hold their team together, without signing any replacement.

missing, through injury, their first choice CB, LB, DM and CF for the majority of games (meaning that for the most part of this season our first team has been 7, SEVEN players shy of the one which played the majority of games last season - Wrong. We've only missed our first choice CB and LB for the majority of games, as Dembele and Ade have played in most of our games, and Sandro has been arguably our best player this season so Parker is not first choice. Sandro was injured a lot last season and has already played more games this season than last, so having him around has actually been a way why we've been better off. We've not had a proper LB all season which has hurt us, but Vertonghen, Caulker and Dawson offered strong cover at CB. Now look at Arsenal. Szczesny, Sagna, Koscielny, Diaby, Wheelchair, all first choice, have all missed more games through injury than they've played. When Szczesny was injured Fabianski was too, so they had to play their third choice keeper which cost them badly. When Diaby was fit they actually looked good, beating Liverpool at Anfield and getting a draw at the Etihad, but they have nobody else who can play in his position. Rosicky is always injured, but many Gooners I know feel he should be first choice as he moves the ball quicker than anyone else in their side, he's made all of two appearances in the league. Now look at Liverpool, for the majority of the season they've been without Lucas who holds their midfield together and allows Gerrard to push forward, and Sahin who makes them tick. Instead they've had to get Joe Allen and Jordan Henderson to play these roles. And whilst Borini didn't exactly set the world alight before his injury, he was first choice and might have come good once he'd settled in, now they can't even substitute Suarez because they have nobody else. Then we have Chelsea. Their problems haven't been AS bad because only the only first choice player to miss the majority of their games is Terry, but he has been a big loss as Cahill and Luiz are dodgy when he's not around. They've also missed Lampard's experience and by not having Sturridge around they haven't been able to even substitute their hopelessly out of form striker, let alone drop him. Don't get me started on Saudi Sportswashing Machine's injury problems, they are not the same team that came 5th last year.

The thing that you missed out was not being able to sign transfer targets. We missed out on Moutinho, but we have a lot of central midfielders even if they are not as good. You go ask Brendan Rodgers about missing out on transfer targets, and if he'd have liked to swap with a team that brought in Lloris, Vertonghen, Dembele, Dempsey, Sigurdsson and Adebayor. Arsenal and Chelsea didn't miss out on anyone in such a high profile manner as us and Liverpool did, but I doubt Wenger was happy not signing a replacement for Song, nor Di Matteo for Drogba.

Something that we have not had to deal with that our rivals have is a full scale fan revolt. Sure, we had a bit of booing at WHL in the early part of the season, it's nothing compared to the protests at Arsenal and Chelsea and the pressure from the media that has been thrown their way.



not one of our rivals have had anything close to what we have had to deal with over the course of the opening quarter of the season. (Arsenal being the closest tbf) - As I've just shown you, for every problem we have, our rivals have also suffered. Arsenal worse in pretty much every case. Some of you are acting like middle class emo teenagers, whinging that the world is against them and that nobody understands how bad they have it. Wake the fudge up, everybody has had brick to deal with, in a lot of cases it's worse than what we've had. Most teams, even our biggest rivals, would kill to have a spine of Lloris, Walker, Caulker, Dawson, Vertonghen, Lennon, Sandro, Bale and Defoe fit for practically the entire season so far, with Dembele, Adebayor and Dempsey being around for most of the time too. There is no reason to think that 4th place is some massive over achievement.

and for the most part no one has 'bigged' our manager up - yes they have - it's more been about trying to be patient and give him time - not calling for him to be sacked after barely 3 months in charge - I have given him credit where it's due, see my comments from the Swansea player ratings over the weekend. But we have seen more bad than good from him so far, and the fact that we have capitalised on Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool all having their worst league seasons in years by...getting to where we finished last season with less points, less goals scored and more goals conceded, has not exactly convinced me that he's the messiah.

.

 

[Jurgen the German]

no you can't because although some of our rivals have had to deal with SOME of the things that we have had to deal with there is not one which has had to deal with them all or anything close to the scale which we are seeing

but you are using them as excuses aren't you? by saying that we should be expecting to be above them because they are performing badly for X,Y and Z reasons - what about our problems? why shouldn't they be factored in all the same ?

I agree were not the same team from last season as we no longer have Modric and VDV's creativity, even when Bale plays, we lack the sam cutting edge. But every team has injuries. I didn't see people using that as an excuse two seasons ago when Defoe got injured and was our for months. Or in 09/10 when Modric broke his leg or when Lennon missed 4 months of the season.

 

[Jurgen the German]

.

show me which of the teams above have had to contend with :

a new manager arriving - Liverpool and Chelsea. And this can be a good thing.

uprooting to a new training ground once the new season had started - How is that a bad thing???

selling their 2 most creative players - Arsenal were as close to a one man team as I've ever seen last season, they lost that one man, he was far better than Modric or Van Der Vaart were for us. And while we signed one of the best midfielders in the country in Dembele to replace Modric and got Dempsey and Sigurdsson to replace VdV, it was very clear from the beginning that Giroud and Podolski were both massive steps backwards from RVP. Chelsea sold Kalou and Meireles who were all first team regulars last season but replaced them with better players, however Drogba was arguably their best ever player and saved their season last time around, they didn't sign anyone at all to replace him.

losing their defensive lynch pin of 10+ years to retirement - King was the best defender we ever had, but he could hardly move at walking pace by the end of the season. Vertonghen is a much better option to have now so we have moved forward in that respect, Caulker has also impressed in King's position. This would be like Chelsea whinging that they lost Malouda and Essien in the summer, they were finished at this level and it was time to move them on. Whereas Arsenal sold Alex Song, who actually did hold their team together, without signing any replacement.

missing, through injury, their first choice CB, LB, DM and CF for the majority of games (meaning that for the most part of this season our first team has been 7, SEVEN players shy of the one which played the majority of games last season - Wrong. We've only missed our first choice CB and LB for the majority of games, as Dembele and Ade have played in most of our games, and Sandro has been arguably our best player this season so Parker is not first choice. Sandro was injured a lot last season and has already played more games this season than last, so having him around has actually been a way why we've been better off. We've not had a proper LB all season which has hurt us, but Vertonghen, Caulker and Dawson offered strong cover at CB. Now look at Arsenal. Szczesny, Sagna, Koscielny, Diaby, Wheelchair, all first choice, have all missed more games through injury than they've played. When Szczesny was injured Fabianski was too, so they had to play their third choice keeper which cost them badly. When Diaby was fit they actually looked good, beating Liverpool at Anfield and getting a draw at the Etihad, but they have nobody else who can play in his position. Rosicky is always injured, but many Gooners I know feel he should be first choice as he moves the ball quicker than anyone else in their side, he's made all of two appearances in the league. Now look at Liverpool, for the majority of the season they've been without Lucas who holds their midfield together and allows Gerrard to push forward, and Sahin who makes them tick. Instead they've had to get Joe Allen and Jordan Henderson to play these roles. And whilst Borini didn't exactly set the world alight before his injury, he was first choice and might have come good once he'd settled in, now they can't even substitute Suarez because they have nobody else. Then we have Chelsea. Their problems haven't been AS bad because only the only first choice player to miss the majority of their games is Terry, but he has been a big loss as Cahill and Luiz are dodgy when he's not around. They've also missed Lampard's experience and by not having Sturridge around they haven't been able to even substitute their hopelessly out of form striker, let alone drop him. Don't get me started on Saudi Sportswashing Machine's injury problems, they are not the same team that came 5th last year.

The thing that you missed out was not being able to sign transfer targets. We missed out on Moutinho, but we have a lot of central midfielders even if they are not as good. You go ask Brendan Rodgers about missing out on transfer targets, and if he'd have liked to swap with a team that brought in Lloris, Vertonghen, Dembele, Dempsey, Sigurdsson and Adebayor. Arsenal and Chelsea didn't miss out on anyone in such a high profile manner as us and Liverpool did, but I doubt Wenger was happy not signing a replacement for Song, nor Di Matteo for Drogba.

Something that we have not had to deal with that our rivals have is a full scale fan revolt. Sure, we had a bit of booing at WHL in the early part of the season, it's nothing compared to the protests at Arsenal and Chelsea and the pressure from the media that has been thrown their way.



not one of our rivals have had anything close to what we have had to deal with over the course of the opening quarter of the season. (Arsenal being the closest tbf) - As I've just shown you, for every problem we have, our rivals have also suffered. Arsenal worse in pretty much every case. Some of you are acting like middle class emo teenagers, whinging that the world is against them and that nobody understands how bad they have it. Wake the fudge up, everybody has had brick to deal with, in a lot of cases it's worse than what we've had. Most teams, even our biggest rivals, would kill to have a spine of Lloris, Walker, Caulker, Dawson, Vertonghen, Lennon, Sandro, Bale and Defoe fit for practically the entire season so far, with Dembele, Adebayor and Dempsey being around for most of the time too. There is no reason to think that 4th place is some massive over achievement.

and for the most part no one has 'bigged' our manager up - yes they have - it's more been about trying to be patient and give him time - not calling for him to be sacked after barely 3 months in charge - I have given him credit where it's due, see my comments from the Swansea player ratings over the weekend. But we have seen more bad than good from him so far, and the fact that we have capitalised on Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool all having their worst league seasons in years by...getting to where we finished last season with less points, less goals scored and more goals conceded, has not exactly convinced me that he's the messiah.

=D>

 

[milo]

I think it's clear Chelsea should be far better off this year, not weaker. Hazard, Moses, Oscar, Marin. They simply should be stronger.

Arsenal have lost RVP and so should be weaker. They had a goalkeeping injury, but have they really had our problems? They are still putting out a core of players each week that do their jobs, they still have Arteta, Carzola etc.

Saudi Sportswashing Machine were a surprise package that have fallen down, but Everton are a team that were really consistent in the second half of last season and have improved still further. So there's more competition there. West Brom probably won't sustain their challenge.

I think on balance we've had more problems than Arsenal but at the same time I'd want to finish above them this year, I think last year was our big chance but this year I really think we can do it too.

If they had signed two of the bolded players, a replacement for Drogba and someone to play alongside Ramires I'd agree. The problem with Chelsea's summer signings is that they were all too similar and they failed to sign replacements in other key areas.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Some questions for SUIYHA:

Are you saying that Caulker is currently playing CONSITENTLY at the level that King was playing at when he was at his best, say in the first half of last season?
Are you saying that Dembele is a DIRECT replacement for Modric?
Are you saying that Dempsey and Siggurdsson are DIRECT replacements for VDV?
Are you saying that this season with the changes on player personel it should be a simple case of continuing to play how we were in the first half of last season?

 

[thfcsteff]

(edited)

Other than the final paragraph, can you please show me something that is opinion other than fact?




Only one of the worst goalkeeping performances in Premier League history stopped us from finishing 3rd last year, all of our rivals have performed even worse this time around and we have signed some very good replacements for the players that left. So given the fact that we came 4th last year, and the fact that all our competitors for 4th from last year have got worse, remind me, why exactly should we be satisfied with any less than 4th place at this stage of the season?

I will happily deconstruct your post if you'd like, absolutely. Give me some time, I'll get to it by tomm...

As for the second paragraph. Sorry. I think you're wrong. If you're referring to Fulop's dodgy performance as the ONLY thing which stopped us from finishing third, it will confirm for me that you simply refuse to see the greater context of last season.

As for the final sentence, again, this plays into my context point. You seem to have totally ignored that despite losing several key players for a variety of reasons, the ENTIRE WAY WE PLAYED AND CREATED for the last two seasons necessitated Luka Modric! Thus when you have to adapt to accommodate that loss, you're not just talking about the player and what he brought, you're talking about HOW other players get into the game!!! And remain effective.

We ARE 4th so you should be 'satisfied' but they way you consistently ignore what AVB has had to deal with suggests to me that you have yet to recover from the rightful departure (IMO) of his predecessor.

 

[Mr. Green]

Arsenal have lost RVP and so should be weaker. They had a goalkeeping injury, but have they really had our problems? They are still putting out a core of players each week that do their jobs, they still have Arteta, Carzola etc.

Saudi Sportswashing Machine were a surprise package that have fallen down

Everyone is talking up Scum's goalkeeper position as their weakness link. But W*nker knew he needs to replace two big holes after RVP and Fad left, hence he got two strikers and a winger-turned-creator as his chief summer acquisitions. Well, how both strikers competing for the honourary title of Chamakh Mk. II at the same time is another story. But at least, he tried to address the voids.

I still think we could have done better if we filled our own Modric-hole with a creative midfielder, but thus far Plan B has turned out better than my expectation.

Saudi Sportswashing Machine is experiencing a sophomore syndrome and the extra Europa League games did not help their schedule either. I think if they can hold on to Ba and got some key wins, they can still end up in the top half.

Though I may not agree with all points brought forward by SUIYHA, I do think it's fair to say AVB was stuck with Plan B after we didn't fully accomplish our summer transfer targets. At this stage, it's hard to say whether AVB will eventually turn good, there are good signs but I think we don't have the necessary players or team depth to implement his preferred possession and pressing style at Porto.

Every manager will have to deal with his own set of problems, some may have resources at his disposal, but I guess to be fair, the judgement should only be passed at the end of the season.

 

[thfcsteff]

Replying to some of your points Suiyha (bold-face replies)...I have left the training ground one alone because it is a matter of pure opinion, but I would say anyone moving house or office, even when it's an upgrade, would attest that a 'bedding in/transitional period' is natural.

So, in the spirit of debate my friend...

show me which of the teams above have had to contend with :

a new manager arriving - Liverpool and Chelsea. And this can be a good thing.

The fact is neither manager has done as well thus far this season.

Arsenal were as close to a one man team as I've ever seen last season, they lost that one man, he was far better than Modric or Van Der Vaart were for us. And while we signed one of the best midfielders in the country in Dembele to replace Modric and got Dempsey and Sigurdsson to replace VdV, it was very clear from the beginning that Giroud and Podolski were both massive steps backwards from RVP. Chelsea sold Kalou and Meireles who were all first team regulars last season but replaced them with better players, however Drogba was arguably their best ever player and saved their season last time around, they didn't sign anyone at all to replace him.

You don't replace Luka Modric. You find players to compensate/help you attain another type of midfield dominance. Remember, AVB wanted him at Chelski. Dembele is superb, but he is not a Modric-type player, which means our side has to get used to playing in a different way. Dempsey and Sigurdsson allowed us to sell VdV, and I'm not overly disappointed. As great as Rafa could be, we relied on him to just 'conjure' out of nothing too much. I would've been happy if he'd been here as an option, but not as THE option. So in that sense, happy with that situation. As for the filth signing two players that were massive backwards steps from VP, well mate, unless they spunked 60 mill on Falcao or Villa, that's how it was always going to be! I find it intriguing that you failed to mention Cazorla...not a bad player is he?! As for Chelski, they signed Oscar, Hazard, Marin and Moses to add to players such as Torres and Mata. They let Lukakau go on loan. They have spent massive amounts of money, thus if they haven't got it right it's because of the balance of their players versus decisions to let projected replacements play elsewhere. This then becomes a footballing matter. Theirs has not been due to lack of options, it's been due to some bizarre choices.


King was the best defender we ever had, but he could hardly move at walking pace by the end of the season. Vertonghen is a much better option to have now so we have moved forward in that respect, Caulker has also impressed in King's position. This would be like Chelsea whinging that they lost Malouda and Essien in the summer, they were finished at this level and it was time to move them on. Whereas Arsenal sold Alex Song, who actually did hold their team together, without signing any replacement.


King was irreplaceable. I agree, last season, once he hit the wall, he hit it hard. It's a shame. The injury was being managed very well, and then he just overplayed a bit. Verts was a very clever signing and helped us maintain some quality, but I would dispute that we have moved forward more than managed to find a quality replacement for a player who really only started hitting the brick wall in January. Arsenal sold Song because Wenger, for some bizarre reason, felt that Diaby would be fit! He loves Diaby, and I can see why, for when he's fit he's excellent, but alas, it was not to be. Still, he has Wheelchair, Arteta, Cazorla, Ramsey, Oxeldade-Chamberlin and Walcott, so I'm not crying for him. Again, he made choices. Remember, AVB did not have ANY choice with Modric.



Wrong. We've only missed our first choice CB and LB for the majority of games, as Dembele and Ade have played in most of our games, and Sandro has been arguably our best player this season so Parker is not first choice. Sandro was injured a lot last season and has already played more games this season than last, so having him around has actually been a way why we've been better off.


Sorry mate, you're wrong here. The stats show that Ade has started 4 Premier League games and come on as sub in 5. That's 9 out of 17. Not nearly most of our games. Dembele has started 8 Prem games and come on as sub in 2. That's 10 out of 17, a little closer as it is barely over half. In each case, take the sub appearances out and it is less than half. So far as Sandro is concerned, I love him, but we don't know whether AVB would've played Parker over him (player of the season last season remember!) and we will never know because AVB didn't have the choice and had to get on with it. again, I agree that it's turned out well (and again, I love Sandro) but the manager had no choice but to get on with it and make it work. BTW, Sandro didn't always miss games last season because of injury.





We've not had a proper LB all season which has hurt us, but Vertonghen, Caulker and Dawson offered strong cover at CB. Now look at Arsenal. Szczesny, Sagna, Koscielny, Diaby, Wheelchair, all first choice, have all missed more games through injury than they've played. When Szczesny was injured Fabianski was too, so they had to play their third choice keeper which cost them badly. When Diaby was fit they actually looked good, beating Liverpool at Anfield and getting a draw at the Etihad, but they have nobody else who can play in his position. Rosicky is always injured, but many Gooners I know feel he should be first choice as he moves the ball quicker than anyone else in their side, he's made all of two appearances in the league.


I don't want to discuss the merits or not of the goons. Personally, I feel we are a better side, something I am sure would've been proven during the derby had Adebayor not been sent off, but it's academic because they ended up coating us! What I will say is that Wenger has been there for what, 17 years or something? One thing the club cannot complain about, is continuity. They have that. They have continuity and fluency with regards to management and philosophy at the club. In fact, they've been consistently under-achieving for 7 seasons! I would again say that everything they're going through has thus been about choice! I understand they have money to send, so if Wenger doesn't then its because he doesn't want to. Having said that, Giroud, Podolski and Cazorla weren't bargain-basement. The situation there is VASTLY different to ours.


Now look at Liverpool, for the majority of the season they've been without Lucas who holds their midfield together and allows Gerrard to push forward, and Sahin who makes them tick. Instead they've had to get Joe Allen and Jordan Henderson to play these roles. And whilst Borini didn't exactly set the world alight before his injury, he was first choice and might have come good once he'd settled in, now they can't even substitute Suarez because they have nobody else.


Liverpool would be the closest comparison for me (although even there Rogers came into a club who lost LESS in the summer and less to the treatment room than we did and have) but let's look at it. Lucas is a loss for them, agreed. Sahin does not make them tick mate, sorry, that's just not really true is it. I would agree that having to use Henderson for much more than running to make the tea at HT is a tragedy, so Rogers gets a sympathy vote there, and he also gets one in the striking dept as he was absolutely shafted, so yes, agreed. I think Allen will come good for them, and I think Rogers is working very hard to build something. He does still have, in Suarez, Gerrard, that prick Agger and 'possibly' Johnson (I say 'possibly because I don't like him personally) 4 players of supposed top top quality. But I would agree that they do not have as good a squad as us.



Then we have Chelsea. Their problems haven't been AS bad because only the only first choice player to miss the majority of their games is Terry, but he has been a big loss as Cahill and Luiz are dodgy when he's not around. They've also missed Lampard's experience and by not having Sturridge around they haven't been able to even substitute their hopelessly out of form striker, let alone drop him. Don't get me started on Saudi Sportswashing Machine's injury problems, they are not the same team that came 5th last year.


Again, with Chelski it's choices!!!! Cahill and Luiz, between them, cost over thirty million quid I believe! Somewhere in that range anyway. And now Luiz is being used in midfield anyway ;-)...Lampard's experience could be the same as missing Parker's, except that it's largely been a choice not to play Lampard as opposed to a forced change, as for Sturridge, I'm not sure what the story is there. Has he been injured? But they've had options. Saudi Sportswashing Machine's injury problems have been bad. I feel sorry for Pardew. So yes, absolutely agree, not even close to last season due to injuries it would appear.





The thing that you missed out was not being able to sign transfer targets. We missed out on Moutinho, but we have a lot of central midfielders even if they are not as good. You go ask Brendan Rodgers about missing out on transfer targets, and if he'd have liked to swap with a team that brought in Lloris, Vertonghen, Dembele, Dempsey, Sigurdsson and Adebayor. Arsenal and Chelsea didn't miss out on anyone in such a high profile manner as us and Liverpool did, but I doubt Wenger was happy not signing a replacement for Song, nor Di Matteo for Drogba.

AVB doesn't ever complain, but he wanted Moutinho and didn't get him. Rumour suggests he also wanted Willian and we didn't get him. Rumour also suggested The Hulk and we didn't get him, though of those three that's the one that I would've thought was an absolute non-starter due to his astronomical wages! I also know he wanted Damiao, and the reason Ade came late was because we were still trying to get the Damiao deal done (a player he wanted and who we had provisionally struck a deal for pre-Olympics but Daniel dithered and the next thing, more money thus we didn't get it done). We did some good business for sure, but two of those players were in before he was and Dempsey was not a first-choice target. The goons and Song? Wenger made a choice, probably based on the fact that Song wasn't as important as some felt he was. You even said yourself that they were 'as close to a one-man team as you'd seen' last season mate, and that man was RVP.


Something that we have not had to deal with that our rivals have is a full scale fan revolt. Sure, we had a bit of booing at WHL in the early part of the season, it's nothing compared to the protests at Arsenal and Chelsea and the pressure from the media that has been thrown their way.

Most supporters have been smart, I agree, but some have simply not been able to move on and have dogged AVB's every step and move with some amazing criticisms without taking into context his situations. With regards to media pressure, I beg to differ. The man was under it every week for the first few months, with the media literally begging him to fail and looking for every excuse to try and make him crack/blow his gasket. The reason the pressure is off him is because of the work HE has done. You want a manager who's avoided pressure? Brendan Rogers. If he was anybody else, sorry, he'd have been massacred by now. With regards to Wenger, I think the criticisms are frankly ludicrous but I welcome them and as for cheatski, well, what can I say to that except yes, it helps when your rivals are run by madman.



As I've just shown you, for every problem we have, our rivals have also suffered. Arsenal worse in pretty much every case. Some of you are acting like middle class emo teenagers, whinging that the world is against them and that nobody understands how bad they have it. Wake the fudge up, everybody has had brick to deal with, in a lot of cases it's worse than what we've had. Most teams, even our biggest rivals, would kill to have a spine of Lloris, Walker, Caulker, Dawson, Vertonghen, Lennon, Sandro, Bale and Defoe fit for practically the entire season so far, with Dembele, Adebayor and Dempsey being around for most of the time too. There is no reason to think that 4th place is some massive over achievement.

The ONLY time people raise ANY of the things that AVB has had to contend with is when he is on the receiving end of ludicrous slaggings and observations which are made in the moment and without ANY context. Your spine...come ON duder! Lloris didn't play half the games due to some careful management, Daws is not a first-choice or has been hurt for most of the season, Walker has been until recently in some terrible terrible form (to the point where half the board wanted to drop him!). I agree, when fully fit and playing more than a few games together, Lloris, Walker, Verts, Lennon, Sandro, Bale and Defoe is a GREAT side (I don't count Caulker yet because I think we'll need to see whether he or Younes is considered the starter, but I agree, a great young prospect) but we have rarely been able to play them in back to back games. The fact remains that of all our rivals, we had the biggest upheaval in the summer. I don't think you could deny that fact.



I have given him credit where it's due, see my comments from the Swansea player ratings over the weekend. But we have seen more bad than good from him so far, and the fact that we have capitalised on Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool all having their worst league seasons in years by...getting to where we finished last season with less points, less goals scored and more goals conceded, has not exactly convinced me that he's the messiah.


You see, this final bit is where I realize we just view things with a fundamental difference. Last season Liverpool and Chelski were also not pulling up trees at this point of the season. Actually, neither were the goons! We've crept on them strongly the last two seasons, and what I think AVB deserves credit for is continuing that creeping up whilst having to deal with significant team shuffles from last season's starting 11 AND replacing an old philosophy with his own. THAT, to me, is worthy of praise.

I italicized a sentence of yours I did not understand. I'd love to know what you meant by it.

Best...

 

[billyiddo]

Again, Shuiya you have yet to give me an example where one team has had to contend with ALL that we have (arsenal running pretty close though i agree and im not really sure in what sense Liverpool are a rival for 4th yet).

lets hypothetically agree that our rivals have all equally had as many changes as us this season - how does that equate to expecting 4th as a bare minimum and you not being able to give AVB any credit for getting exactly that at this stage?

You can analyse the other teams injuries/transfers as much as you want but it doesn't change the significant changes WE have gone through since the end of last season and that putting targets to AVB without any allowance for those changes or any patience when things don't run smoothly to start with is both short sighted and harshly unfair imho, especially considering that the closer we have been to a somewhat strongest XI ie Dembele and Adebayor the better our performances and results have been. Im excited to see how we get on once we can play a settled back 5 for a change as well as seeing the return of our POTY in Parker

Fact is we ARE 4th and our rivals for 4th are below us. Even taking our/their problems it is something we should be pleased with, surely - not something to be expected

 

[JPG_357]

I don't think it was careful management to bench Lloris for so long, it's probably cost us vital points. I make it that with Lloris we have 15 points from 7 games, Brad only 14 from 10. I would say with Lloris in goal we wouldn't have lost to Chelsea or Wigan.

So I have that down as poor management on AVB's part.

Overall though, I think he's doing well, and if we beat Stoke I'll push that up to very well.

 

[lurker of old]

But we have seen more bad than good from him so far,

Suiyha probably makes one or two good points, but that is taking the tinkle. If we had seen more bad than good, we would be in the bottom half, with the players in revolt.

 

[demotw]

I don't think it was careful management to bench Lloris for so long, it's probably cost us vital points. I make it that with Lloris we have 15 points from 7 games, Brad only 14 from 10. I would say with Lloris in goal we wouldn't have lost to Chelsea or Wigan.

So I have that down as poor management on AVB's part.

Overall though, I think he's doing well, and if we beat Stoke I'll push that up to very well.

Thats a crazy comment, you have no idea what would have happened if we threw lloris straight into the team, for all we know the lack of knowing his defence due to no training could have cost us some silly goals, blew his confidence and right now we could be sitting nearer the bottom of the table. Brad has always does very well for us, and while the time is right for LLoris NOW, it wasnt right at the start of the season.

 

[#11L]

I don't think it was careful management to bench Lloris for so long, it's probably cost us vital points. I make it that with Lloris we have 15 points from 7 games, Brad only 14 from 10. I would say with Lloris in goal we wouldn't have lost to Chelsea or Wigan.

So I have that down as poor management on AVB's part.

Overall though, I think he's doing well, and if we beat Stoke I'll push that up to very well.

Are you Didier Deschamps man? No dig at you, but i've seen many of your posts as very Lloris friendly. For what it's worth i agree that Lloris should have stayed between the sticks after the Villa game. But Brad didnt deserve to be dropped either so it wasnt an easy desicion.

 

[Spursalot]

I don't think it was careful management to bench Lloris for so long, it's probably cost us vital points. I make it that with Lloris we have 15 points from 7 games, Brad only 14 from 10. I would say with Lloris in goal we wouldn't have lost to Chelsea or Wigan.

So I have that down as poor management on AVB's part.

Overall though, I think he's doing well, and if we beat Stoke I'll push that up to very well.

Disagree entirely.


New to the league we can see how goalkeepers can struggle with it. It's likely the physicality combined with the play style and a bit of being behind unfamiliar defenders.


Got round the Unfamiliar defenders by playing him in the EL, a competition he'd be more used to. Got to see him in training and introduced him well, his performances thus far attest to that, bar maybe one mistake in the PL, but hey, no goalkeeper is perfect. Kudos to AVB on this one.

 

[JPG_357]

Are you Didier Deschamps man? No dig at you, but i've seen many of your posts as very Lloris friendly. For what it's worth i agree that Lloris should have stayed between the sticks after the Villa game. But Brad didnt deserve to be dropped either so it wasnt an easy desicion.

11L No, I just love Hugo and think he's been given a very poor introduction to English football. We've signed the captain of France and Sky was barely interested, and even now the media keep bringing how he was forced to play as No.2 for a few months, which I think is humiliating for Lloris. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with anti-French bias somewhere along the line.

It wasn't an easy decision to drop Brad but when you sign one of the world's best, it's an obvious one. Had we signed Benzema or Ribery (the other two candidates for French footballer of the year this year) I find it hard to believe we would have put them on the bench for so long. I also think the media and fans would have made a far bigger fuss about them if they had signed - but who's their captain in the national team, yep Hugo.

I think it was scandalous that Hugo was dropped after keeping a clean sheet v Villa, and as I say I think it cost us vital points.

BTW I backed Deschamps all the way over his criticisms of the way Hugo was treated when he arrived here, the French were incredulous that their captain was being benched in favour of a 41 year old, and rightly so. Can you imagine if Rooney went to Lyon and was benched in favour of a 36 year old, you wouldn't hear the end of it over here.

I have nothing against Brad, a top guy, but once Hugo was bought he should have been made No.1 straightaway, and should have kept his place after the Lazio game, where he kept a clean sheet in his first game, you know something that Brad hasn't managed in 10 attempts so far.

 

[Pirate55]

Interesting debate guys. Have enjoyed reading it. Think you both make good points.

My tuppunceworth - AVB has done well but it is too early to really judge him yet. Time will tell when he has had the opportunity to bring in his own players and play his own style. Early signs werent terribly encouraging - too defensive at home, lack of creativity in central midfield, Lennon too defensive, poor negative substitution and concession of late goals due to ceding possession and initiative, continued lack of goals from set pieces.

However, in more recent games, AVB seems to have addressed some of these issues (especially playing two up front and not withdrawing all 11 back for freekicks and corners). He has done well to have us in fourth with our playing resources and injuries. Now it remains to be seen if he can push on from here. The January transfer window will be an early test imo.