Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

[NaijaSpurs]

It has largely slipped under the radar that Tottenham Hotspur have played virtually the whole season so far without their No1 central defender and their player of the year from the last time out. They have also missed their first-choice left-back for all but three matches, their playmaker for eight and their most dynamic attacker for the past three.

André Villas-Boas, the manager, deserves credit for not banging on about the absentees as he has handled a transitional period in his new job and kept the club up where they want to be, in the Premier League's top four. But the appearance of Scott Parker, Tottenham's player of last season, as a late substitute in Sunday's 1-0 home win over Swansea City signalled a timely return of the cavalry.

Benoît Assou-Ekotto, the left-back who has not played since 1 September, has resumed full training after a knee problem and should be in contention for Saturday's visit of Stoke City, as should Gareth Bale, who felt his hamstring at the start of the month. Younès Kaboul, the club's best centre-half last season, has not played since the opening-day defeat at Saudi Sportswashing Machine because of a knee injury that required surgery but he, too, is close to a comeback. Michael Dawson, the reserve central defender, is expected to be available for Stoke after hamstring trouble.

The picture is one of intense competition for places and of a squad ready to make a significant push. After Stoke, Tottenham travel to Aston Villa and Sunderland before they entertain Reading on New Year's Day.

"Scott Parker's return is very important," said Mousa Dembélé, the midfielder, who missed five weeks from mid-October with a hip problem but is now back to form and fitness. "He's a very organised guy, very professional and he is an unbelievable player as well. It's good for the team that there are a lot of rivals because it makes everybody sharp. I know that if I play one bad game, then Jake Livermore, Scott Parker, Tom Huddlestone and Tom Carroll are behind me. And, of course, there is Sandro, too. So we have to keep playing and that keeps the level high in this team."

Before Swansea, Parker's last game was for England against Italy in the Euro 2012 quarter-final on 24 June; he has been frustrated by a complicated achilles injury. It will be intriguing, though, to see how or if Villas-Boas accommodates him in the starting XI, given the strength and balance of Dembélé's partnership with Sandro.

Tottenham missed Dembélé when he was out – they lost four of five league matches without him – and it is highly unlikely that Villas-Boas would drop him. One option would be to play him further forward as a No10, although Dembélé, the August signing from Fulham, has grown into the deeper-lying role and the responsibility of compensating for the departure of Luka Modric to Real Madrid.

"Martin Jol tried me in more of a midfield role at Fulham last season and as I can attack and also defend a bit, I prefer this position," Dembélé said. "I like to see a lot of the ball and, in this position, I do. Before I came to Tottenham, I was a big fan of Luka Modric – for me, he was one of the best in England – but I am a totally different player so I don't feel I have to do exactly what he did. I just try my best to be as important as he was."

The one cloud on the injury front for Villas-Boas was the ankle and hamstring damage that Emmanuel Adebayor suffered against Swansea. The squad is short on strikers and although Adebayor's injuries are not serious and he has said that he will not go with Togo to the Africa Cup of Nations that begins next month because of a pay dispute, Villas-Boas will scrutinise the January market for fresh blood up front.

The Portuguese wants to strengthen and he heard an endorsement from within his squad for a potential target, the Ajax and Denmark attacking midfielder Christian Eriksen. "Technically, he's one of the best players I've played with," said the defender Jan Vertonghen, who joined Tottenham from Ajax in the summer. "He's left- and right-footed, and is always fit. He's a good player and a good player can play here."

Villas-Boas, though, has been boosted most noticeably by his sparsely populated treatment room. "People don't seem to value the situation we've been through," he said. "Younès has missed so much time … Gareth, Dembélé, Parker, Assou-Ekotto and then Rafa [Van der Vaart] and Modric [who were sold]. These players all played an important role last season. But the players coming back from injuries is a major, major bonus for us."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/17/tottenham-scott-parker-injury-list?

 

[thfcsteff]

It has largely slipped under the radar that Tottenham Hotspur have played virtually the whole season so far without their No1 central defender and their player of the year from the last time out. They have also missed their first-choice left-back for all but three matches, their playmaker for eight and their most dynamic attacker for the past three.

André Villas-Boas, the manager, deserves credit for not banging on about the absentees as he has handled a transitional period in his new job and kept the club up where they want to be, in the Premier League's top four. But the appearance of Scott Parker, Tottenham's player of last season, as a late substitute in Sunday's 1-0 home win over Swansea City signalled a timely return of the cavalry.

Benoît Assou-Ekotto, the left-back who has not played since 1 September, has resumed full training after a knee problem and should be in contention for Saturday's visit of Stoke City, as should Gareth Bale, who felt his hamstring at the start of the month. Younès Kaboul, the club's best centre-half last season, has not played since the opening-day defeat at Saudi Sportswashing Machine because of a knee injury that required surgery but he, too, is close to a comeback. Michael Dawson, the reserve central defender, is expected to be available for Stoke after hamstring trouble.

The picture is one of intense competition for places and of a squad ready to make a significant push. After Stoke, Tottenham travel to Aston Villa and Sunderland before they entertain Reading on New Year's Day.

"Scott Parker's return is very important," said Mousa Dembélé, the midfielder, who missed five weeks from mid-October with a hip problem but is now back to form and fitness. "He's a very organised guy, very professional and he is an unbelievable player as well. It's good for the team that there are a lot of rivals because it makes everybody sharp. I know that if I play one bad game, then Jake Livermore, Scott Parker, Tom Huddlestone and Tom Carroll are behind me. And, of course, there is Sandro, too. So we have to keep playing and that keeps the level high in this team."

Before Swansea, Parker's last game was for England against Italy in the Euro 2012 quarter-final on 24 June; he has been frustrated by a complicated achilles injury. It will be intriguing, though, to see how or if Villas-Boas accommodates him in the starting XI, given the strength and balance of Dembélé's partnership with Sandro.

Tottenham missed Dembélé when he was out – they lost four of five league matches without him – and it is highly unlikely that Villas-Boas would drop him. One option would be to play him further forward as a No10, although Dembélé, the August signing from Fulham, has grown into the deeper-lying role and the responsibility of compensating for the departure of Luka Modric to Real Madrid.

"Martin Jol tried me in more of a midfield role at Fulham last season and as I can attack and also defend a bit, I prefer this position," Dembélé said. "I like to see a lot of the ball and, in this position, I do. Before I came to Tottenham, I was a big fan of Luka Modric – for me, he was one of the best in England – but I am a totally different player so I don't feel I have to do exactly what he did. I just try my best to be as important as he was."

The one cloud on the injury front for Villas-Boas was the ankle and hamstring damage that Emmanuel Adebayor suffered against Swansea. The squad is short on strikers and although Adebayor's injuries are not serious and he has said that he will not go with Togo to the Africa Cup of Nations that begins next month because of a pay dispute, Villas-Boas will scrutinise the January market for fresh blood up front.

The Portuguese wants to strengthen and he heard an endorsement from within his squad for a potential target, the Ajax and Denmark attacking midfielder Christian Eriksen. "Technically, he's one of the best players I've played with," said the defender Jan Vertonghen, who joined Tottenham from Ajax in the summer. "He's left- and right-footed, and is always fit. He's a good player and a good player can play here."

Villas-Boas, though, has been boosted most noticeably by his sparsely populated treatment room. "People don't seem to value the situation we've been through," he said. "Younès has missed so much time … Gareth, Dembélé, Parker, Assou-Ekotto and then Rafa [Van der Vaart] and Modric [who were sold]. These players all played an important role last season. But the players coming back from injuries is a major, major bonus for us."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/17/tottenham-scott-parker-injury-list?

Great story and absolutely true. Also something a few of us have been saying for a while.

 

[Golfball]

Great story and absolutely true. Also something a few of us have been saying for a while.

And it is also nothing new for any club. We have had plenty of injuries over the past few seasons, but still played well.

We have a good quality squad and there isnt a huge amount of difference between a lot of our players. In theory Adebayor has been the biggest loss in terms of improving our weaker areas, but when he does play we arent much better. It will be nice to have Kab, BAE and Parker back but I can see them doing very little to help our clueless attacking system at the moment.

 

[SUIYHA]

If you had asked any rational fan, (or my bet, Levy himself), on the day Chea$ki won the CL about the following scenario

- Spurs will fire Harry, lose Ledley, VDV, Modric, hire an unproven manager in England, have to settle in Lloris, Jan, Dembele, Siggy, Dempsey (two of who have ever played in England), have very limited appearances by Kaboul, Benny and Parker due to injuries and have JD lead the line as a single striker for the majority of the games.
- based on that scenario above, 17 games into the PL season, would you take 4th (having beaten Manure at OT) and being in the knockout stages of the Europa cup?

Everyone would/should bite your arm off at the offer.

That's one way of looking at it. The other is asking any rational fan, on the day Chelsea won the CL about the following scenario:

- Arsenal, the team who only finished one point above us last year due to the miracle form of one man, lose that one man. They also lose Alex Song, and their only other defensive midfielder gets a long term injury, as do two other members of their first choice defence and their goalkeeper. They do not re-invest their money in big name world class players, the fans get restless, the media starts to turn on Wenger and an all round bad atmosphere engulfs the club.

- Saudi Sportswashing Machine, the team that finished one place below us last year, get practically their entire squad injured and go on a run of taking just 3 points from 7 games. If we hadn't given away that late penalty at SJP they'd currently be level on points with Wigan who are in the relegation zone.

- Chelsea, the team that finished in 6th, have their worst ever start to a Premier League season under Abramovic, Torres cannot score for brick and their only other striker misses most of the season through injury, as do Marin, Lampard and Terry, whilst Cahill and Luiz still can't defend properly without Terry beside them, Abramovic goes crazy and sacks the manager, causing a fans revolt as a man who the fans hate gets appointed, huge tensions run throughout the entire club.

- Liverpool, who finished 8th but were expected to challenge at least for a top 4 place, only sign one new striker who then gets a long term injury, as do Lucas and Sahin. They have an absolute dogbrick start to the season, are in the relegation zone after 5 games, and struggle to even get out of the bottom half after results like losing 3-0 to West Brom and 3-1 at home to Aston Villa.

- Meanwhile, Bale signs a new contract, we sign Ajax's captain who won Dutch footballer of the year the year before, a man who has emerged as one of the best central midfielders in the country, a man who scored 23 goals for Fulham last season, a player who was one of the Premiership's best midfielders in the second half of last season, signed a man who had a hand in 29 league goals for us last season on a permanent transfer and signed arguably the best young goalkeeper in Europe. After all of that, Lloris/Friedel, Vertonghen, Walker, Sandro, Bale, Lennon, Dempsey and Defoe, the spine of our team, all stay fit all season apart from the odd game here and there.


If I told you all of that was going to happen, wouldn't you have thought 4th would be the bare minimum you would hope for after 17 games???





Yes, we've lost some players. But, we're not the only ones. We've had injuries. Again, not the only ones. Considering the players AVB has had available to him, I feel he has had the 4th best squad and we are currently in 4th place. It's nothing remarkable. We are 9 points down from the same stage last season and 3 points down from the corresponding fixtures. We went out of the League Cup to a weaker side. We have ambitions of playing in the Champions League, yet failed to win our Europa League group despite actually trying very hard in the competition (I realise we'd have won it if any of the 3 goals wrongly disallowed against Lazio had been given).

I want AVB to do well. Really, I do. But please, try to be objective here. Recent results and performances have been encouraging, but some of his tactical performances earlier in the season were as bad as anything Pleat or Ramos served up. For sure, we could have beaten West Brom, Norwich and Wigan with better tactics, and whilst we still may have lost to Arsenal, Chelsea or City, I still can't help but wonder what would have happened if he hadn't got things so badly wrong on all 3 days. Given the fact that Chelsea are behind even where they were at this point last season, when AVB was getting all the stick and they ended up finishing 6th, if he'd truly been doing as good a job as some of you lot think he is then we'd be in third place ahead of them now.

 

[glorygloryeze]

And it is also nothing new for any club. We have had plenty of injuries over the past few seasons, but still played well.

We have a good quality squad and there isnt a huge amount of difference between a lot of our players. In theory Adebayor has been the biggest loss in terms of improving our weaker areas, but when he does play we arent much better. It will be nice to have Kab, BAE and Parker back but I can see them doing very little to help our clueless attacking system at the moment.

Clueless?? Sorry, how many teams have scored nore than us at this stage??

 

[Spursalot]

And it is also nothing new for any club. We have had plenty of injuries over the past few seasons, but still played well.

We have a good quality squad and there isnt a huge amount of difference between a lot of our players. In theory Adebayor has been the biggest loss in terms of improving our weaker areas, but when he does play we arent much better. It will be nice to have Kab, BAE and Parker back but I can see them doing very little to help our clueless attacking system at the moment.

Fourth top scorers in the league...


Yup, clueless attacking system. How brick must the rest of the league's attacks be.


Defensive record? not so good.

 

[glorygloryeze]

That's one way of looking at it. The other is asking any rational fan, on the day Chelsea won the CL about the following scenario:

- Arsenal, the team who only finished one point above us last year due to the miracle form of one man, lose that one man. They also lose Alex Song, and their only other defensive midfielder gets a long term injury, as do two other members of their first choice defence and their goalkeeper. They do not re-invest their money in big name world class players, the fans get restless, the media starts to turn on Wenger and an all round bad atmosphere engulfs the club.

- Saudi Sportswashing Machine, the team that finished one place below us last year, get practically their entire squad injured and go on a run of taking just 3 points from 7 games. If we hadn't given away that late penalty at SJP they'd currently be level on points with Wigan who are in the relegation zone.

- Chelsea, the team that finished in 6th, have their worst ever start to a Premier League season under Abramovic, Torres cannot score for brick and their only other striker misses most of the season through injury, as do Marin, Lampard and Terry, whilst Cahill and Luiz still can't defend properly without Terry beside them, Abramovic goes crazy and sacks the manager, causing a fans revolt as a man who the fans hate gets appointed, huge tensions run throughout the entire club.

- Liverpool, who finished 8th but were expected to challenge at least for a top 4 place, only sign one new striker who then gets a long term injury, as do Lucas and Sahin. They have an absolute dogbrick start to the season, are in the relegation zone after 5 games, and struggle to even get out of the bottom half after results like losing 3-0 to West Brom and 3-1 at home to Aston Villa.

- Meanwhile, Bale signs a new contract, we sign Ajax's captain who won Dutch footballer of the year the year before, a man who has emerged as one of the best central midfielders in the country, a man who scored 23 goals for Fulham last season, a player who was one of the Premiership's best midfielders in the second half of last season, signed a man who had a hand in 29 league goals for us last season on a permanent transfer and signed arguably the best young goalkeeper in Europe. After all of that, Lloris/Friedel, Vertonghen, Walker, Sandro, Bale, Lennon, Dempsey and Defoe, the spine of our team, all stay fit all season apart from the odd game here and there.


If I told you all of that was going to happen, wouldn't you have thought 4th would be the bare minimum you would hope for???





Yes, we've lost some players. But, we're not the only ones. We've had injuries. Again, not the only ones. Considering the players AVB has had available to him, I feel he has had the 4th best squad and we are currently in 4th place. It's nothing remarkable. We are 9 points down from the same stage last season and 3 points down from the corresponding fixtures. We went out of the League Cup to a weaker side. We have ambitions of playing in the Champions League, yet failed to win our Europa League group despite actually trying very hard in the competition (I realise we'd have won it if any of the 3 goals wrongly disallowed against Lazio had been given).

I want AVB to do well. Really, I do. But please, try to be objective here. Recent results and performances have been encouraging, but some of his tactical performances earlier in the season were as bad as anything Pleat or Ramos served up. For sure, we could have beaten West Brom, Norwich and Wigan with better tactics, and whilst we still may have lost to Arsenal, Chelsea or City, I still can't help but wonder what would have happened if he hadn't got things so badly wrong on all 3 days. Given the fact that Chelsea are behind even where they were at this point last season, when AVB was getting all the stick and they ended up finishing 6th, if he'd truly been doing as good a job as some of you lot think he is then we'd be in third place ahead of them now.

I stopped reading when you said Chelski had their worst start in PL under Abramovich; you mean that team who were top in October?? Yeah worst start for sure.
Also remember that Chelski used the fact they won the CL and goy into it at our expense to rob us of Oscar and Hazard; Are yu really telling me we should automatically be third and ahead of them considering who we have lost in gthe summer??

 

[Spurs7891]

It has largely slipped under the radar that Tottenham Hotspur have played virtually the whole season so far without their No1 central defender and their player of the year from the last time out. They have also missed their first-choice left-back for all but three matches, their playmaker for eight and their most dynamic attacker for the past three.

André Villas-Boas, the manager, deserves credit for not banging on about the absentees as he has handled a transitional period in his new job and kept the club up where they want to be, in the Premier League's top four. But the appearance of Scott Parker, Tottenham's player of last season, as a late substitute in Sunday's 1-0 home win over Swansea City signalled a timely return of the cavalry.

Benoît Assou-Ekotto, the left-back who has not played since 1 September, has resumed full training after a knee problem and should be in contention for Saturday's visit of Stoke City, as should Gareth Bale, who felt his hamstring at the start of the month. Younès Kaboul, the club's best centre-half last season, has not played since the opening-day defeat at Saudi Sportswashing Machine because of a knee injury that required surgery but he, too, is close to a comeback. Michael Dawson, the reserve central defender, is expected to be available for Stoke after hamstring trouble.

The picture is one of intense competition for places and of a squad ready to make a significant push. After Stoke, Tottenham travel to Aston Villa and Sunderland before they entertain Reading on New Year's Day.

"Scott Parker's return is very important," said Mousa Dembélé, the midfielder, who missed five weeks from mid-October with a hip problem but is now back to form and fitness. "He's a very organised guy, very professional and he is an unbelievable player as well. It's good for the team that there are a lot of rivals because it makes everybody sharp. I know that if I play one bad game, then Jake Livermore, Scott Parker, Tom Huddlestone and Tom Carroll are behind me. And, of course, there is Sandro, too. So we have to keep playing and that keeps the level high in this team."

Before Swansea, Parker's last game was for England against Italy in the Euro 2012 quarter-final on 24 June; he has been frustrated by a complicated achilles injury. It will be intriguing, though, to see how or if Villas-Boas accommodates him in the starting XI, given the strength and balance of Dembélé's partnership with Sandro.

Tottenham missed Dembélé when he was out – they lost four of five league matches without him – and it is highly unlikely that Villas-Boas would drop him. One option would be to play him further forward as a No10, although Dembélé, the August signing from Fulham, has grown into the deeper-lying role and the responsibility of compensating for the departure of Luka Modric to Real Madrid.

"Martin Jol tried me in more of a midfield role at Fulham last season and as I can attack and also defend a bit, I prefer this position," Dembélé said. "I like to see a lot of the ball and, in this position, I do. Before I came to Tottenham, I was a big fan of Luka Modric – for me, he was one of the best in England – but I am a totally different player so I don't feel I have to do exactly what he did. I just try my best to be as important as he was."

The one cloud on the injury front for Villas-Boas was the ankle and hamstring damage that Emmanuel Adebayor suffered against Swansea. The squad is short on strikers and although Adebayor's injuries are not serious and he has said that he will not go with Togo to the Africa Cup of Nations that begins next month because of a pay dispute, Villas-Boas will scrutinise the January market for fresh blood up front.

The Portuguese wants to strengthen and he heard an endorsement from within his squad for a potential target, the Ajax and Denmark attacking midfielder Christian Eriksen. "Technically, he's one of the best players I've played with," said the defender Jan Vertonghen, who joined Tottenham from Ajax in the summer. "He's left- and right-footed, and is always fit. He's a good player and a good player can play here."

Villas-Boas, though, has been boosted most noticeably by his sparsely populated treatment room. "People don't seem to value the situation we've been through," he said. "Younès has missed so much time … Gareth, Dembélé, Parker, Assou-Ekotto and then Rafa [Van der Vaart] and Modric [who were sold]. These players all played an important role last season. But the players coming back from injuries is a major, major bonus for us."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/17/tottenham-scott-parker-injury-list?

He fails to mention King. It is amazing how we have coped without King. He might not have played much in the last few years due to injury but his mere presence in the squad was a big influence. Thought we will struggle badly when King retired but we have done admirably so far. Due credit to AVB and team.

 

[thfcsteff]

And it is also nothing new for any club. We have had plenty of injuries over the past few seasons, but still played well.

We have a good quality squad and there isnt a huge amount of difference between a lot of our players. In theory Adebayor has been the biggest loss in terms of improving our weaker areas, but when he does play we arent much better. It will be nice to have Kab, BAE and Parker back but I can see them doing very little to help our clueless attacking system at the moment.

Oh dear. Hello again.

To the first bit in bold above...

...and?
What is your point? What is your context for the point? The writer raised injuries in conjunction with all the other shifts which went on at the club this summer.
Of course injuries and upheaval aren't 'new for any club' but most aren't dealing with it as well as we are right now.

To the second bit in bold above...

Clueless attacking system? Oh, the one that is 4th highest in goal productivity in the Prem? Ah, I see, OK...more goals spread through the team, Defoe in fine form, Bale in good scoring form...what do you want, aside from what all of us want which is one more striker, the manager to get the midfielder and AM he wants, and for us to hopefully win a trophy and ensure CL qualification this season?

 

[thfcsteff]

I stopped reading when you said Chelski had their worst start in PL under Abramovich; you mean that team who were top in October?? Yeah worst start for sure.
Also remember that Chelski used the fact they won the CL and goy into it at our expense to rob us of Oscar and Hazard; Are yu really telling me we should automatically be third and ahead of them considering who we have lost in gthe summer??

No you didn't. Like me you wanted to, but read it all and still disagreed.
I wish Suiyha would apply context to the situation, particularly those early season games. But some of us will have different opinions...

 

[billyiddo]

That post from Shuiya above is close to the biggest pile of gonads i have ever read on here.

Expecting 4th as a bare minimum, deary me

 

[Spurs7891]

That post from Shuiya above is close to the biggest pile of gonads i have ever read on here.

Expecting 4th as a bare minimum, deary me

I think some people still cannot accept AVB as Spurs manager.

It will be great if we can achieve something this season. But one thing you have to be worried, almost all the managers who have won honours or achieved their target in their first season in charge will go on to be failures in the next season. Just look at George Graham and Ramos.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

That post from Shuiya above is close to the biggest pile of gonads i have ever read on here.

Expecting 4th as a bare minimum, deary me

Last season the bare minimum was 3rd. Ourselves and Arsenal were close last year but Arsenal probably were the better side due to Van Persie, but there wasn't much in it. We are weaker than last season, but I think Arsenal dropped in quality further than we did. Chelsea are back from a terrible Premier League season last year.

So what does the above mean? It means that we are favourites for 4th. I'm not sure it's a bare minimum requirement, that for me is 6th. But I genuinely believe that right now we do have the 4th best first XI in the Premiership....and probably the 4th best squad too. So 4th is the expectation, but not the bare minimum.

 

[billyiddo]

Last season the bare minimum was 3rd. Ourselves and Arsenal were close last year but Arsenal probably were the better side due to Van Persie, but there wasn't much in it. We are weaker than last season, but I think Arsenal dropped in quality further than we did. Chelsea are back from a terrible Premier League season last year.

So what does the above mean? It means that we are favourites for 4th. I'm not sure it's a bare minimum requirement, that for me is 6th. But I genuinely believe that right now we do have the 4th best first XI in the Premiership....and probably the 4th best squad too. So 4th is the expectation, but not the bare minimum.

the above was in response to Shuiyas post further up the page, which i never quoted where he claimed 4th is the bare minimum we should have expected at this stage of the season.

 

[metalgear]

half the season gone, lots of key players absent for whatever reason, I'm just glad to see that AVB has adapted well to the circumstances and made the best of it.

he's used all kinds of formations and not just 4-3-3, he's been steadfast and fair in managing the players, he has been articulate and when necessary, firm with the press, and he is pushing an attractive style of football, with thoughtful use of players, including the young ones.

this man is going to be a legend for us... does he have a song yet?

 

[lurker of old]

Recent results and performances have been encouraging, but some of his tactical performances earlier in the season were as bad as anything Pleat or Ramos served up. For sure, we could have beaten West Brom, Norwich and Wigan with better tactics,

We were brick at home early doors, there is no doubt at all. But there is a learning curve for any new manager, and new players, and we REALLY missed Dembele. Of course it could all go horribly wrong over Christmas but what is encouraging to me - as I'm sure SUIYHA accepts- is that the new players have started to gell. Sig is starting to look like the player we signed. With the exception of our forward line, we have strength in depth. So I say "keep up the good work" to AVB, he deserves some slack.

 

[SUIYHA]

I stopped reading when you said Chelski had their worst start in PL under Abramovich; you mean that team who were top in October?? Yeah worst start for sure.
Also remember that Chelski used the fact they won the CL and goy into it at our expense to rob us of Oscar and Hazard; Are yu really telling me we should automatically be third and ahead of them considering who we have lost in gthe summer??

If you want anyone to take anything you say seriously, then please...pay attention to what's going on in football. As the media have widely pointed out, Chelsea have the fewest points that they have had at this stage in any season under Abramovic, and have also failed to make it out of the Champions League group stages for the first time under Abramovic. They are having a dreadful season. It's not like they haven't lost anyone either...a certain Ivorian who was their best player for the best part of a decade and saved their season last year left without any replacement being signed.

No you didn't. Like me you wanted to, but read it all and still disagreed.
I wish Suiyha would apply context to the situation, particularly those early season games. But some of us will have different opinions...

Other than the final paragraph, can you please show me something that is opinion other than fact?

That post from Shuiya above is close to the biggest pile of gonads i have ever read on here.

Expecting 4th as a bare minimum, deary me

You remind me of the way some Liverpool fans react when you try and explain logically to them why they're not one of Europe's elite any more.


Some of you are so keen to be able to big up our new manager that you are not thinking logically or objectively about this. So let me make it easier for you. Please, stop me when I say something that isn't a cold hard fact:

• Our main rivals for Champions League spots last season were expected to be Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool.
• Other than Arsenal's strong run in the second half of last season, all of them had poor league seasons. Newcasle were a surprise package.
• We finished in 4th place despite collapsing in the second half of the season
• All four of those competitors have been even worse this season
• We have lost some excellent players, but have also signed some excellent players
• We have lost important first team players, but so have Arsenal and Chelsea
• Liverpool and Chelsea's injury problems have been just as bad as ours, Arsenal's have been worse and Saudi Sportswashing Machine's have been A LOT worse.
• All of our competitors have had to integrate significant numbers of new players into their squad and adapt to new playing styles, just like we have - except Everton.
• All of our competitors' managers, except Everton, have faced huge criticisms and been put under enormous pressure by fans or the media
• Our competitors have all left themselves short on numbers of players in key positions
• We are 9 points behind where we were after the same number of games last season
• We are 3 points worse off from the corresponding fixtures from last season

Only one of the worst goalkeeping performances in Premier League history stopped us from finishing 3rd last year, all of our rivals have performed even worse this time around and we have signed some very good replacements for the players that left. So given the fact that we came 4th last year, and the fact that all our competitors for 4th from last year have got worse, remind me, why exactly should we be satisfied with any less than 4th place at this stage of the season?

 

[billyiddo]

it strikes me that you are the one that is not looking at things logically - you give all of our rivals plenty excuses as to why they are performing lower than expected but then any of the logical arguments as to why it is the same (if not worse) for us you seem to totally ignore/dismiss.


you called for the manager to be sacked after 10 games or so in charge - don't talk to me about logic or objectivity mate :ross:


show me which of the teams above have had to contend with :

a new manager arriving
uprooting to a new training ground once the new season had started
selling their 2 most creative players
losing their defensive lynch pin of 10+ years to retirement
missing, through injury, their first choice CB, LB, DM and CF for the majority of games (meaning that for the most part of this season our first team has been 7, SEVEN players shy of the one which played the majority of games last season


not one of our rivals have had anything close to what we have had to deal with over the course of the opening quarter of the season. (Arsenal being the closest tbf)

and for the most part no one has 'bigged' our manager up - it's more been about trying to be patient and give him time - not calling for him to be sacked after barely 3 months in charge

 

[SUIYHA]

I'm not using them as excuses. The fact is, they are under performing, that's all that matters. I just said that for every excuse that you have given for AVB, the same applies for our rivals. I know all too well that we've had brick to deal with, but for every excuse about injuries, losing players, not getting the signings we wanted, new playing style or whatever it is you have come up with as a reason why we can't possibly do as well as last year, I can show you one (if not all) of our rivals who have had the same thing just as bad (if not worse).

 

[billyiddo]

I'm not using them as excuses. The fact is, they are under performing, that's all that matters. I just said that for every excuse that you have given for AVB, the same applies for our rivals. I know all too well that we've had brick to deal with, but for every excuse about injuries, losing players, not getting the signings we wanted, new playing style or whatever it is you have come up with as a reason why we can't possibly do as well as last year, I can show you one (if not all) of our rivals who have had the same thing just as bad (if not worse).

no you can't because although some of our rivals have had to deal with SOME of the things that we have had to deal with there is not one which has had to deal with them all or anything close to the scale which we are seeing

but you are using them as excuses aren't you? by saying that we should be expecting to be above them because they are performing badly for X,Y and Z reasons - what about our problems? why shouldn't they be factored in all the same ?