a spur from swansea
Naybet
AVB getting turned over on talkbrick.........by,guess who.........
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Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach
- Thread starter Bale
- Start date
Our main rivals for 4th are weaker than ever though, so from that point of view he got out at a terrible time. In all the years Wenger has been at Arsenal they've always had players that will consistently win the games and points they didn't deserve. This is the first season they don't.
Leeds Spur
Banned
So we can pick and choose which polls we believe now?
I'll go have another look :lol:
Hey - it works for politicians!
Leeds Spur
Banned
turn it off
a spur from swansea
Naybet
.....someone from leeds has just phoned saying harry should be back??
Leeds Spur
Banned
As I said, I'd rather burn my eyes out with acid that waste a second of my life listening to those muppets
ringo
Tim Sherwood
At least the bookies haven't caught on to our willingness to throw away leads and concede late goals.
My reinsurance betting has been suprisingly profitable this season (unfortunately). Some bookies were offering 7-2 Emirates Marketing Project (briefly) after we scored.
I imagine Leeds is doing fairly well too?
My reinsurance betting has been suprisingly profitable this season (unfortunately). Some bookies were offering 7-2 Emirates Marketing Project (briefly) after we scored.
I imagine Leeds is doing fairly well too?
Jurgen the German
Willie Hall
People can't have it both ways. They want to slate the last manager for bad signings or AVB for signing Sig or Dempsey, but what do they expect when we have a limited budget or a chairman that is reluctant to fully back his managers?
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
I think it would've been a good thing to have spent some money, yes, but it did not ultimately cost us. It's undeniable what ultimately cost us, and it wasn't not having Christophe Samba mate...
Kingdawson
Banned
Samba was an example and of course there were other factors.
Unless we're in a much better position come January i can't see anyone decent wanting to come to us
Leeds Spur
Banned
Yes mate. Wigan were 4/1 for draw no bet!!
DHSF
Les Ferdinand
Samba - may have got us those one or two extra points.
What was AVB hoping to achieve by getting rid of Dawson - especially when the other options are an injured Kaboul, Gallas nearing the end and Caulker who is still very young and Verts who is new to the premiership.
Look ultimately having someone like Neville will have helped with leadership who knows. What I will say is that of the players Harry brought in he sold a fair few for a bit of profit or got value out of it. Palacios was needed and he worked out, Crouch worked out a bit and both were sold for 20m (give or take one or two million than they cost us), Kranjcar was sold for treble what he was brought for, Pienaar sold for more, Defoe is still banging in the goals, Ade was a great loan signing etc. Yeah there have been a few bad ones but all loans such as Saha and Nielsen and Chimbonda (all im sure brought in as numbers just to get us by incase injuries mountained up).
I actually dont think in all of those there were many bad purchases apart from those three loans and even then I would argue that they were last minute purchases simply because we failed in getting our targets (which happens time and time again and boils down to Levy - disregarding outside influences)
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
I think this is a more honest distillation of the current discussion generally.
We are absolutely not anywhere near as exciting to watch as the last couple of seasons, you are of course absolutely right, and this is at the very crux of the discussion.
Ultimately, 'if' we are going to be a side which never wins the Prem and sort of challenges for the top, then we'd be far better off letting the dogs loose and playing 'open' stuff.
I think in all honesty, a major part of my liking AVB's more technical approach stems from watching our brilliant side of last year get absolutely stuffed by the goons and chelski; oh how I wish we'd been a bit more savvy tactically!
I am waiting for a time when he has a nearly-full squad to choose from.
DHSF
Les Ferdinand
Steff thats really selective because if my memory serves me right we played tactically in games such as AC Milan away or inter at home (even away just to even get it back to 4-3). Harrys just got this stigma of just telling players to 'run around' and whilst we do joke about it im sure he applied some tactics. Footballers are easy people to guide just dont need 1000 instructions in there heads when playing that restricts them and causing them to hesitate in their play.
The thing is im of the Harry school of thought that tactics whilst do have a place has so much emphasis placed upon it when in reality if you got good footballers, who enjoy playing in a way they are told, they will perform. Youre obviously in the tactical school of thought and thats fine but we need the players and if AVB isnt gonna be given the money and the full backing to buy the players he wants and needs then what was the bloody point?
ALtottenham_hotspur
Jamie Redknapp
I listen to H & J on talksport most afternoons. Recently I have been interested in hat Andy Jacobs has had to say about AVB, he’s not his biggest fan, which isn’t a surprise.
However he said AVB trying to shut up shop in the 2nd half is nothing new it’s what he did at Chelsea. So I went and had a look at Chelsea’s results last season from 14th August until his last game in charge 04th March that’s a total of 27 games in which AVB was in charge.
20 goals conceded in the 2nd half of games
12 goals conceded in the last 10 mins
8 goals scored for Chelsea in the last 10mins
I imagine come the same time in March we will have some very similar stats. I’m not someone who wants AVB out! I’m just looking at facts (RAFA STYLE) it doesn’t look like he’s learnt his lesson from last season.
However he said AVB trying to shut up shop in the 2nd half is nothing new it’s what he did at Chelsea. So I went and had a look at Chelsea’s results last season from 14th August until his last game in charge 04th March that’s a total of 27 games in which AVB was in charge.
20 goals conceded in the 2nd half of games
12 goals conceded in the last 10 mins
8 goals scored for Chelsea in the last 10mins
I imagine come the same time in March we will have some very similar stats. I’m not someone who wants AVB out! I’m just looking at facts (RAFA STYLE) it doesn’t look like he’s learnt his lesson from last season.
i know it has been said a million times before but i feel it hasn't quite sunk in for some people
right now our team is missing -
Parker, Modric and VdV - that is pretty much the core of our team from last season, our engine so to speak - Parker, player of the season who earned himself the captains armband for his country with countless displays of dogged determination and true grit. Modric - a player of such style and talent that he was pursued by the greatest club in world football over two seasons, he made us tick, he controlled game after game for fun and was by far and away our best player. VdV - a true game changer with immense passion and fight, scorer and assist to a number of goals which Gareth Bale and Aaron Lennon would struggle to match if combined. these 3 players were the heart of our team and the root of every good display we had last season (for VdV and Modric the season prior also), is it any wonder that without them in the line up we are struggling to adapt ?
id honestly like to see how any of our rivals would fair if you ripped 3 similarly important players from the core of their side
'oh but we should have replaced them' you will no doubt say - Sandro replaces Parker and Dembele replaces Modric - please remind me what our results have been with those two starting in the line up ? played 4, won 3 and drawn 1 i believe (to save you the effort) not too shabby that if you ask me, the performances were actually starting to look half way decent as well (including a fantastic first half against Manchester United). now considering that is only 2/3's of engine room adequately replaced i think that we can take some positives from that, but then why should we look for positives ? - i wonder how we would have fared over the course of the season so far if AVB had got his man Moutinho in to replace VdV and Dembele had better luck with his injury ? just to reiterate - we lost our 3 starting central midfielders, 2 got replaced and one of those replacements has only been available for 4 games - 4 games in which we were starting to look good and only dropped 2 points.
'oh but Levy fudged us over by leaving the Moutinho deal to the last minute' - you know what really fudged us over with trying to back the new manager in the summer window - the fact that last season we shot ourselves in the foot whilst 10 points clear in 3rd and missing out on Champions League football - how can we expect to replace the players we lost this summer (3 genuine Champions League quality players - King, Luka and VdV) without the lure of either sky high wages that our rivals can offer or the carrot of ECL football ? the fact we managed to replace King with Vertonghen and Modric with Dembele is something we should be mightily pleased about and being so close to a deal for Moutinho should give us hope for the future. yes it's is a shame we ended up with Dempsey who is poor in comparison (to put it mildly) but when you are a non Champions League side who works within it's means as we are then sometimes you will miss out and have to make do with a stop gap - some of you need to get your heads out of the sky and realize where we are as a club after last season in terms of who we can attract and afford to pay wages for.
we are dealing with the fall-out from last seasons disappointment and have had to adjust to losing not only the core of our team but also our Club Captain of 10+ years to retirement, our starting Left back and our best performing center back to injury - i could go on but im sure you get the point - no other team in the country has gone through as much change as us over the summer (at least out of our rivals anyway) and to see people calling for the managers head after only 11 odd games when he has barely had anything close to a full team to choose from is quite frankly disgusting and Im embarrassed to be a Spurs supporter alongside such people.
right now our team is missing -
Parker, Modric and VdV - that is pretty much the core of our team from last season, our engine so to speak - Parker, player of the season who earned himself the captains armband for his country with countless displays of dogged determination and true grit. Modric - a player of such style and talent that he was pursued by the greatest club in world football over two seasons, he made us tick, he controlled game after game for fun and was by far and away our best player. VdV - a true game changer with immense passion and fight, scorer and assist to a number of goals which Gareth Bale and Aaron Lennon would struggle to match if combined. these 3 players were the heart of our team and the root of every good display we had last season (for VdV and Modric the season prior also), is it any wonder that without them in the line up we are struggling to adapt ?
id honestly like to see how any of our rivals would fair if you ripped 3 similarly important players from the core of their side
'oh but we should have replaced them' you will no doubt say - Sandro replaces Parker and Dembele replaces Modric - please remind me what our results have been with those two starting in the line up ? played 4, won 3 and drawn 1 i believe (to save you the effort) not too shabby that if you ask me, the performances were actually starting to look half way decent as well (including a fantastic first half against Manchester United). now considering that is only 2/3's of engine room adequately replaced i think that we can take some positives from that, but then why should we look for positives ? - i wonder how we would have fared over the course of the season so far if AVB had got his man Moutinho in to replace VdV and Dembele had better luck with his injury ? just to reiterate - we lost our 3 starting central midfielders, 2 got replaced and one of those replacements has only been available for 4 games - 4 games in which we were starting to look good and only dropped 2 points.
'oh but Levy fudged us over by leaving the Moutinho deal to the last minute' - you know what really fudged us over with trying to back the new manager in the summer window - the fact that last season we shot ourselves in the foot whilst 10 points clear in 3rd and missing out on Champions League football - how can we expect to replace the players we lost this summer (3 genuine Champions League quality players - King, Luka and VdV) without the lure of either sky high wages that our rivals can offer or the carrot of ECL football ? the fact we managed to replace King with Vertonghen and Modric with Dembele is something we should be mightily pleased about and being so close to a deal for Moutinho should give us hope for the future. yes it's is a shame we ended up with Dempsey who is poor in comparison (to put it mildly) but when you are a non Champions League side who works within it's means as we are then sometimes you will miss out and have to make do with a stop gap - some of you need to get your heads out of the sky and realize where we are as a club after last season in terms of who we can attract and afford to pay wages for.
we are dealing with the fall-out from last seasons disappointment and have had to adjust to losing not only the core of our team but also our Club Captain of 10+ years to retirement, our starting Left back and our best performing center back to injury - i could go on but im sure you get the point - no other team in the country has gone through as much change as us over the summer (at least out of our rivals anyway) and to see people calling for the managers head after only 11 odd games when he has barely had anything close to a full team to choose from is quite frankly disgusting and Im embarrassed to be a Spurs supporter alongside such people.
DHSF
Les Ferdinand
Decent post - still wanna kill ya though.
Alot of ifs and buts but the crux of the matter is that our football has actually been unadventurous, dull and boring not to mention unambitious. AVB does need to adapt he seems stubborn doesnt appear to be tactically astute (perfect example yesterday) and his ability to not learn from lessons (how many goals conceded in second halves and in the last 15 mins of a game?) is not very good. If in the next few games he decides to start playing to our strengths and forgets trying to sit the fudge back then he will get time because he is showing he is willing to change things about. This defensive approach has not served us any benefit whatsoever so fight fire with fire in games we may get beat but fudge me lets get beat with a fight and not with a wimper.
Having said all that however; I feel sorry for AVB as he has been handed a few players that Levy brought which is another point entirely although it has a significant impact which could impair AVBs ability to do his job properly. Whats funny is you mention we dont have the money etc which is fine but what I find incomprehensible is you then go and splash out a lot of money on players that it seems (the evidence is there although not conclusive) AVB did not want or players that do not fit in his style. So instead of using that cash to go out and fund transfers on players AVB wanted he has been left with a few players, in key positions, that are just hindering us at the moment.
To be honest I know I moan a fair bit but its borne out of frustration as im not sure who the fudge to blame - AVB? or Levy? both? Im not looking for a spacegoat. Its also frustration borne out of the fact that I really dont think there were any questions to be answered in the first instance when Harry was in charge but thats me.