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Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

Never heard that one before? What exactly?

I agree that Levy made life difficult for Ramos. In fact, it has happened to an extent under every manager. But it is a question of degrees. I don't think AVB has, so far, suffered anything like the same fate as some of the others. Ramos was left with one senior forward for the first three games before we signed Pav, who'd just played the entire Russian league season. And frankly, the rot has already started to set in by game 4 and he'd lost the players. I don't think this can be compared with not signing Moutinho or Damiao. He's still got a squad that should be doing better than this, injuries considered too.

Look at who is directly above us. One guy not only in his first year at WBA but his first year as the top man at any club, one club just promoted and the perennial brilliant Moyes, who has a fraction of the quality and resources of AVB. And before it is pointed out he's had x years there, when he came in he hit the ground running. He saved them from the drop when it looked nailed on and then he finished 7th in his first full season with absolutely no money whatsoever. So this is nothing new. There are numerous examples of managers coming into far more difficult and challenging situations than AVB and doing 'as well' or better than he's done so far.

I'm not saying sack him but the results are so far are barely good enough and the performances are even worse. All excuses considered. Of course he gets time, by all means, but lets pretend that is based on anything other than he's the new man.

Word was (and I'll be careful) that there was some stuff going on back in Spain which had him preoccupied (all legitimate, nothing dodgy, just the sort of pickles which can happen to some). To be fair, it was not noted much anywhere and thus I could've been misinformed, but it was something I heard at the time.

I think Moyes has done a fantastic job at Everton, but he's furniture there and knows every inch of wood in the stands and every blade of grass on the pitch. He is a fine manager, but let's see how he finishes this season before eulogizing him too far. Steve Clarke has done a fine job too, but I'm not sure how their fixture list has fallen thus far this season. BTW, West Brom is absolutely not a 'more difficult and challenging' situation than ours, neither is Everton; expectations at both clubs are muted. Finally, you surely are saying 'but let's NOT pretend...etc, etc'...

He gets time for a variety of reasons IMO.
 
Didn't have to be £30m but i would have certainly given him money to spend given the position we were in at the time. He wanted Samba which would have been an excellent signing imo and having him in the team would have given us at least the one extra point needed to finish third.

And then, when Harry leaves for his dream job, we are left with a high-wage player that the new manager doesn't necessarily wants. I can see your viewpoint, but I can equally understand why we didn't sign Samba. He's not a top class player.
 
Let's be honest we've been poor this season. Not played well for a full 90 minutes once. We've been sloppy defensively, no imagination or creativity in the centre of midfield and struggle to keep possession against poor teams for long periods of time, the moments we have controlled we have created very few goalscoring chances, resorting to half chances or dangerous crosses with nobody in the middle to get on the end of. AVB's team selection & substitutions have been baffling and frustrating. And only picking up 2 points from the home games against West Brom, Norwich and Wigan is a disgrace.

If we can't judge AVB after his first few months in charge then how can we judge Harry for his last few months? I can only imagine what this place would be like if Harry was playing Defoe as a loan striker, persisting with Gallas and Friedel and producing performances/results like we have seen so far. Not to mention Dempsey, which has "Harry buy" written all over it.

Having said all that i quite like AVB, not sure why, I'll admit at the beginning of the season I said he was a clown and will be Ramos all over again, probably a bit much and I certainly don't want him replaced anytime soon. I guess I'm hoping Dembele will prove to be the player all my Fulham mates keep banging on about (they genuinely believe he is better than Modric) and improve the centre of our midfield upon his return, but then we shouldn't have to rely on one player in our whole squad to give us a spark in the centre of the pitch.

I also judge him for the last few months of the season prior to last among other things...remember, we had a premiership 'mare than too...
 
And then, when Harry leaves for his dream job, we are left with a high-wage player that the new manager doesn't necessarily wants. I can see your viewpoint, but I can equally understand why we didn't sign Samba. He's not a top class player.

He's better than Ryan Nelsen that's for sure
 
Not that i agree with not judging him, but that is flawed.

You would be judging Harry with a team that Harry built.

You would be judging AVB on a team that mostly Harry built.

Yes that is a fair point. I guess what I was trying to say was that people on here were so quick to slate Harry because of his last few months forgetting all the good work he'd done previously. Where as I find these same people are still trying to find excuses for AVB. At the end of the day, his team or not, he has very good players at his disposal, and not to put in one good 90 minute performance so far this season is a worry.
 
My point was that Levy doesn't back his managers as much as he should do.

I didn't say we should spend £50m, but why didn't we go for someone like Huntelaar for example who would have cost around £20m-£25m? No guarantee he would have come to us obviously but you don't get if you don't ask. And why do you assume that the last manager would have wasted the money when he signed players like Gallas, Kranjcar, Sandro and Parker to name a few who would be unanimously described as good signings?

What? What?
Huntelaar...why didn't we go for him? Ask the manager at the time (let's not even debate whether he would've worked or not)...Harry was not the man behind Sandro. Gallas = great signing short-term, Kranjcar = ultimately couldn't be made to work but no worries at 2 million (bizarrely cheap) and Parker, I was wrong with him, great signing but ultimately in his 30s, long-term injured and on a high-wage. We cannot sustain a bunch of Parkers and Nevilles...
 
And then, when Harry leaves for his dream job, we are left with a high-wage player that the new manager doesn't necessarily wants. I can see your viewpoint, but I can equally understand why we didn't sign Samba. He's not a top class player.

He's an excellent premier league player that would in all likelihood got us 1 extra point. So what if the new manager might not have quite fancied him? a champions league spot guarantees £20m at least, probably Luka staying for another season and depending on the incoming manager probably Rafa too. The incoming manager would have then had more cash to spend and get rid of the players he didn't want.

It was a stupid decision not giving Arry some cash to spend on at least 1 player he wanted in January and ultimately it cost us big time.
 
Yes that is a fair point. I guess what I was trying to say was that people on here were so quick to slate Harry because of his last few months forgetting all the good work he'd done previously. Where as I find these same people are still trying to find excuses for AVB. At the end of the day, his team or not, he has very good players at his disposal, and not to put in one good 90 minute performance so far this season is a worry.


People were slating harry because he didn't learn. We had late season collapses two seasons in a row.

Currently people are slating AVB because they do not think he has learnt. I don't think there's that much of a difference between the issues.
 
I was never in favour of AVB, but I don't think he's doing that badly. I really rated Harry as one of the best in the game, so felt who ever replaced him would look poor in comparison. I just felt Harry was the perfect fit for Spurs and our limitations were to do with finances and our biggest asset was the manager.

I actually thought AVB would possibly be gone by now, but he's done better than I expected and performed as well as many managers I would have deemed more suitable. But in contrast to my reasonable satisfaction with AVB, I don't understand why those who were so pro his appointment can't be more honest and admit they are shocked at how poor he's been compared to what they were expecting.

I refuse to believe that any of the pro AVB crowd would have in anyway anticipated such negative football, that is so poor to watch. I can't believe they had any clue he would struggle to such a large extent tactically. In terms of possession, it's again hard to believe that anyone would have thought we'd play in a way that was so unconcerned with keeping the ball. At the end of the day, the results have been alright, but the quality of football and the tactical approach has been average at best. Teams with far inferior players to us are playing much better stuff and we've played far better in previous seasons with worse teams. So forgetting the players not available, the AVB impact, or lack of it, must be a real eye opener for many of our fans.

I think the main issue is that AVB was judged on what our fans didn't witness. We have no clue of his real impact at Porto and very few would have even seen a handful of their games when he was in charge. Yet instead of judging him on what they have seen when he was at Chelsea and now on a weekly basis here, they still judge him on what they haven't witnessed, which seems a bit odd.

That's actually a very fair post.

I was a massive AVB fan, still am, and I will back him for 2 seasons regardless. If there's no improvement in that time then of course he should go. This year he's had to deal with the transition of losing key players and next season will be the first one we can judge him with a squad that more resembles what he wants.

But I am surprised. As you say, many other teams are playing much better than us. In terms of possession we look really bad, except for the first half against United. I didn't think he was a negative manager, and everything he says claims he isn't. But it's hard to deny what we have been seeing.

I look at Fulham, who really do have cause to complain considering they really have lost 2 massive players. And replaced them with Berbatov (fair enough) and...Kieran Richardson? Or the Swedish guy? I don't really know. But the point is they have lost 2 very key players, and replaced them with players who at the very least are rather different in style. And yet, they have been able to adapt their system of play and still get results. Fulham have been much more impressive than us so far.

I really don't know what's going on. The players seem to really be getting on with AVB. Sometimes, like at Norwich, I can see us trying to play the possession based game I thought we would be using but most of the time in the league there's no real style and whatever we have tried to carry out, we seem to be incapable of doing it properly. Even at Liverpool even though they haven't gotten our results and do still have a good squad (albeit light upfront) you can at least see them trying to play a new style and can put their poorer results down to the fact that it's going to take time for the players to get used to it as well as to build the squad that can carry it out.

So it's very strange. AVB does seem to have learnt, in that he isn't trying to impose an unsuited style too early. He seems to want us to play a bit deeper to give Bale and Lennon space to break into...but there's no actual style there to speak of. I don't really know what we are trying to do on most of the games. If he is just trying to continue with how we played last season, then why are the performances so much worse? He acknowledges playing Ade will lead to better ball retention, so why has he half got us trying to play more possession football, passing it around defence, while at the same time playing Defoe upfront and not playing a game that lets us get the balls into the forwards? It's an akward mish-mash of styles so far and I suspect it's come from trying not to change too much too quickly, combined with trying to put some of his own ideas in. But that means we aren't one thing or the other, and I think tactically it's best to have at least a clear idea of what you want to be, rather than just be stuck in the middle.
 
He's an excellent premier league player that would in all likelihood got us 1 extra point. So what if the new manager might not have quite fancied him? a champions league spot guarantees £20m at least, probably Luka staying for another season and depending on the incoming manager probably Rafa too. The incoming manager would have then had more cash to spend and get rid of the players he didn't want.

It was a stupid decision not giving Arry some cash to spend on at least 1 player he wanted in January and ultimately it cost us big time.


Sorry but that is a load of crap. Attempting to rewrite history in a positive way by inserting player X and then blindly guessing about what could have happened.


Granted he could have won us points, but he also could have lost them. The situation never occurred so any claims like that are just out of thin air.
 
I think this season would be a harsh one to fully judge AVB on. Its clear that we are struggling in terms of tactics, possession and playing for 90 minutes.

I think injuries haven't helped. I also think that AVB clearly missed out on many of his top summer targets for whatever reason. I think Dempsey was a bit of a last-minute 'ok we've missed out on all of our targets, who is available as a stop-gap' signing. Vertonghen was obviously already way down the line before he came in. I think Lloris might have been targeted by other people too based on AVB's quotes in the press and his reluctance to actually play him in the league.

Sigurdsson was a promising youngster available at a decent price, so it made sense for the future, fair enough. Dembele was obviously a good midfield option that was brought in pretty much as soon as we lost Modric. I think Dembele was really the only first-team main target that we got of AVB's.

I think he clearly wanted Moutinho or someone to dictate the play and keep possession. We were also linked to Hernanes, Ramirez and a whole load of midfielders that are classed as central midfield playmakers. Its clear AVB identified this as a key area, but we didn't get him what he wanted.

We also appear to have been looking at attacking midfielders/widemen such as Willian/Oscar etc, but we didn't get one of these in.

As it is AVB has largely been left with Redknapp's team, but with Dempsey for Van der Vaart and Dembele for Modric.

I think Dembele is a great signing, but that's quite a bit of a drop-off in quality and doesn't really allow AVB to implement HIS tactics and formations and ideas fully in my opinion.

I think the board really failed to back AVB to the full in the summer and I think that is going to cost us this season. I hope in January or next summer he gets more of what he wants in and then we can see if he is the real deal or not.
 
Sorry but that is a load of crap. Attempting to rewrite history in a positive way by inserting player X and then blindly guessing about what could have happened.


Granted he could have won us points, but he also could have lost them. The situation never occurred so any claims like that are just out of thin air.

We had to rely on Ledley King ffs. The man is a legend but did you see some of the games he played in at the end? against norwich alone we would not have lost that with even an average cb playing.

How many league games did Nelsen play btw?
 
AVB lost Modric and VDV and wanted Moutinho and Willian to replace them, he got neither. Until Levy backs him fully, then judging him on the squad he's been given(which some people forget is weaker than last season's) is hardly fair.

We seem to say this quite a fair bit under a number of Managers. Maybe Levy is the issue? and no its not time to bring up the stadium or training ground etc Its time for Levy to truly step up and back AVB. Those who are saying we dont have money - we have enough to tinkle 14m up the wall plus maybe another 10 on a keeper (which AVB may not have wanted in all three I dont know but if he did then how can we argue that he doesnt have the squad if theyre on the bench and aint using them)
 
We seem to say this quite a fair bit under a number of Managers. Maybe Levy is the issue? and no its not time to bring up the stadium or training ground etc Its time for Levy to truly step up and back AVB. Those who are saying we dont have money - we have enough to tinkle 14m up the wall plus maybe another 10 on a keeper (which AVB may not have wanted in all three I dont know but if he did then how can we argue that he doesnt have the squad if theyre on the bench and aint using them)


If by 'tinkle 14m up the wall' you mean buy players who we obviously thought were or would be good enough then yes, we did spend 14m.


10m on a keeper this year or more next? I know which one I'd take every time.


So the signings we thought would be good enough weren't. The issue is who scouted them and decided they were good enough?
 
If by 'tinkle 14m up the wall' you mean buy players who we obviously thought were or would be good enough then yes, we did spend 14m.


10m on a keeper this year or more next? I know which one I'd take every time.


So the signings we thought would be good enough weren't. The issue is who scouted them and decided they were good enough?

My axe to grind is not whether they were good enough (they arent in crucial positions too but thats my view) its more did AVB want them? I bet it was Levy who scouted them - because even if the scouts thought they were good enough DID AVB THINK THEY WERE GOOD ENOUGH?
 
My axe to grind is not whether they were good enough (they arent in crucial positions too but thats my view) its more did AVB want them? I bet it was Levy who scouted them - because even if the scouts thought they were good enough DID AVB THINK THEY WERE GOOD ENOUGH?


Ah right. Well how do you scout player during a summer break to begin with?


And your question is unanswerable for now. No way AVB will come out and claim they weren't if that is the case. He won't whilst he is still manager here, because it's suicide.
 
My axe to grind is not whether they were good enough (they arent in crucial positions too but thats my view) its more did AVB want them? I bet it was Levy who scouted them - because even if the scouts thought they were good enough DID AVB THINK THEY WERE GOOD ENOUGH?

For what it's worth ... Jetset says Sig, Demps, Vert and Dembele weren't AVB's signings.
 
For what it's worth ... Jetset says Sig, Demps, Vert and Dembele weren't AVB's signings.

I dont believe iTKs but I would believe that.

Think about it - Modric's replacement was to be Moutinho but Levy got Dembele im glad we got him. Vert was on our radar before AVB but im glad we actually Vert cos he is pretty damn good.

Sig/Demps? no way were they AVBs - they dont fit in with his team structure

Either way thats what? 40m worth of players that AVB (strong chance) didnt want.

Spursalot I agree but you can kind of decipher whether they are players he wanted (a chance we could be wrong)
 
He will be our manager until the end of this season at a bare minimum.

Newsflash....we're 3 points off 4th

Do you want a bet?

Im not saying its right, all I'm saying is if we are not close to 4th place come Xmas the pressure will be intense on AVB not only from Spurs fans but also the media who are just waiting to stick a knife in him as soon as they can.

We have had a decent start to the season and there is already pressure on him christ knows what it will be like come xmas is if are not close to 4th!!!
 
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