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American politics

This is why Trump won. The 'deplorables' were even more likely to vote for him as people came out and said they were racist red necks. Yes. many of them are, but the this fails to address the reasons why. They have rejected the Democrats because they feel that that the party has stopped listening to them and is no longer representing them. labelling them, only pushes them further and further into the extremist camp. This is the analysis of the middle class bubble. Sorry Raziel!
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
This is why Trump won. The 'deplorables' were even more likely to vote for him as people came out and said they were racist red necks. Yes. many of them are, but the this fails to address the reasons why. They have rejected the Democrats because they feel that that the party has stopped listening to them and is no longer representing them. labelling them, only pushes them further and further into the extremist camp. This is the analysis of the middle class bubble. Sorry!
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How do you challenge racists without calling them out on their racism?
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
People under 25 are so stupid and lacking in life experiences as to not matter to anyone really. I suppose as birth rates slow and people live longer we will have an older electorate.
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As vs. being older and still having racists, bigoted, science avoiding, religious zealot views of the world?

My point is, the future voters (and yes that may be 20 years from now) are almost 100% anti the policy of the party than just got control of the government. Regardless of which ideology you subscribe to, conservatives would be idiots to not acknowledge that is a massive problem.
 
milo said:
There's been plenty of appeasing racists over here by saying that it is not racist to be concerned about immigration and a fat lot of good that did us.
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Civilization is a long process, I don't believe you are going to convince large groups of the population to be not racists, to respect women more and suddenly believe in science.

Truth is, we have to work hard to ensure that young people don't inherit the racist views, ensure we refuse to tolerate public racist views and wait till some of that ignorance just dies off with those generations.
 
parklane1 said:
Well i can not comment on the Tory victory but for the other two i would say its about how many folks are fed up with the status quo, sick to death of the/we are all right jack sod everyone else brand of policys and decided to stand up and be counted.

I guess it all come down to what side of the bed your life lives in.
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If people were fed up with we are alright jack politics how come tories made gains after a coalition of pushing those policies. I know you discounted this vote but for me it indicates in this country a shift towards this view point. I know that the vote against the status quo is a message that is being pushed but my experience tells me that Brexit is largely anti immigration. There seems to be a lack of empathy at the moment, divide and conquer.
 
milo said:
How do you challenge racists without calling them out on their racism?
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You address why they are expressing these attitudes. People have lost hope in the rust belt. Shops are flooded with cheap foreign goods and businesses are exploiting cheap foreign labour. Their angst is aimed at the wrong target. It should be aimed at the exploiters, not the victims.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
You address why they are expressing these attitudes. People have lost hope in the rust belt. Shops are flooded with cheap foreign goods and businesses are exploiting cheap foreign labour. Their angst is aimed at the wrong target. It should be aimed at the exploiters, not the victims.
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What about where fears are misplaced? Or where you have a media that whips up fear of immigration?
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
You address why they are expressing these attitudes. People have lost hope in the rust belt. Shops are flooded with cheap foreign goods and businesses are exploiting cheap foreign labour. Their angst is aimed at the wrong target. It should be aimed at the exploiters, not the victims.
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But the exploiters are in most cases part of the establishment, far easier to blame the working man as they always do.

milo said:
I'm not
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Maybe not you but a lot have/do and they are so blind they can not see themselves doing it.
 
parklane1 said:
Well i can not comment on the Tory victory but for the other two i would say its about how many folks are fed up with the status quo, sick to death of the/we are all right jack sod everyone else brand of policys and decided to stand up and be counted.

I guess it all come down to what side of the bed your life lives in.
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I get that if you feel that you've been fudged over by other people for years, fudging yourself over might feel liberating. The irony is that both here and in the States we have put the people who were fudging us over all along in charge of our self determined fudging.
 
Raziel said:
As vs. being older and still having racists, bigoted, science avoiding, religious zealot views of the world?

My point is, the future voters (and yes that may be 20 years from now) are almost 100% anti the policy of the party than just got control of the government. Regardless of which ideology you subscribe to, conservatives would be idiots to not acknowledge that is a massive problem.
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That's been the case for centuries.

The reality is that young lefties get jobs, mortgages, children etc. and become small c conservatives.

It's easy to vote for people like Corbyn and Sanders when you've got nothing to lose.
 
r-u-s-x01 said:
If people were fed up with we are alright jack politics how come tories made gains after a coalition of pushing those policies. I know you discounted this vote but for me it indicates in this country a shift towards this view point. I know that the vote against the status quo is a message that is being pushed but my experience tells me that Brexit is largely anti immigration. There seems to be a lack of empathy at the moment, divide and conquer.
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Yes i did discount the Torys win that has been done to death elsewhere, but as for the other two it has a effect but nowhere nearas big as many are trying to make out.
 
r-u-s-x01 said:
What the last 3 votes have informed me (tory majority, Brexit, Trump) is I know nothing and the slow move to a more tolerant society is over, I am on the outside looking in.
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I don't think the first one fits the pattern. Cameron's government (the one people voted for) was quite centrist socially.

It's May that doesn't understand modern Conservatism. She was a terrible choice for leader - I said that months ago and I stand by it now.

She's the reason I changed the habit of a lifetime and didn't vote Conservative at the last election.
 
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milo said:
I get that if you feel that you've been fudgeed over by other people for years, fudgeing yourself over might feel liberating. The irony is that both here and in the States we have put the people who were fudgeing us over all along in charge of our self determined fudgeing.
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Not that your post makes but sense but i will play along with you, do you not see that the Brexit vote and the Trump vote is mainly because people are sick to death of being fudgeed over.
 
scaramanga said:
That's been the case for centuries.

The reality is that young lefties get jobs, mortgages, children etc. and become small c conservatives.

It's easy to vote for people like Corbyn and Sanders when you've got nothing to lose.
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Yeah right Labour voters lost their jobs and homes in droves under Attlee, Wilson, Blair and Browne. I think it safe to say this is more hyperbole on your part.
 
parklane1 said:
Not that your post makes but sense but i will play along with you, do you not see that the Brexit vote and the Trump vote is mainly because people are sick to death of being fudgeed over.
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Yes but they have both resulted in the people doing the fudging over still being in control.
 
milo said:
Yes but they have both resulted in the people doing the fudging over still being in control.
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Well in both the cases we will have to wait and see, unless you let everyone get a look at that crystal ball you must have to say what you have with so much certainty.
 
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