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American politics

I think it’s fine to acknowledge that people from a different time had values that don’t necessarily represent modern liberal values of today, but people don’t have a crystal ball and are capable of knowing what is deemed unacceptable or even frowned upon hundreds of after their time. I can guarantee future generations will look back on our generations and ask “why did they do that?” And “what were they thinking?” We shouldn’t ever stop striving to evolve, civilisations evolve over time. I keep using Lincoln as an example because he used to be remembered for being the president for leading America during a difficult period in US history and for his part in ending slavery, he is often voted America’s greatest ever president. Nowadays, he is seen as a bigot because his views on race (despite his role in ending slavery) aren’t progress by todays standards. But in his time, he was an outlier. Some schools in America have gone as far as to remove his name from schools and have removed statues, even in his home state of Illinois. That for me is silly and is going to far to signal how virtuous you are. If Lincoln isn’t good enough for you then who is? To me it is a cheap way to make our generation look more enlightened. I’d be fine with people acknowledging that his views on race don’t represent modern values of today, but on the whole, he did far more good than bad. I wish more liberals would push back on this kind of thing. To be fair, Sadiq Khan said the statue of Churchill would not be removed when protesters tried to tear it down in 2020. This sort of thing just makes liberals look bad IMO.

If this is an important enough issue to spend time on I think it's appropriate to look at the actual reasons given.

I do agree that this kind of thing can go too far at times.

The first news story I found was on a statue:

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/29/9512...-freed-slave-at-his-feet-is-removed-in-boston

Seems like a decent enough decision to me.
 
If this is an important enough issue to spend time on I think it's appropriate to look at the actual reasons given.

I do agree that this kind of thing can go too far at times.

The first news story I found was on a statue:

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/29/9512...-freed-slave-at-his-feet-is-removed-in-boston

Seems like a decent enough decision to me.

That statue in particular is troublesome I’d agree. But in general, schools are renaming themselves as people like Lincoln and Washington aren’t deemed worthy enough anymore.

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news...e-washington-abraham-lincoln-dianne-feinstein
 
Top post mate.

A similar thing happened with "fake news" imo. Though a different term at first, one that was useful that went to being diluted and more or less useless.

CRT seems to have been the latest one targeted in this way, more similar to the one's you list.

I have very little doubt that this strategy will continue and will be effective.

Fake news is attributed to Trump but the term was coined well before he started using it.

CRT is a divisive issue among both liberals and conservatives, but it’s mainly the right that has issues with it.
 
Not a fan of Pence or DeSantis, but either of them is a better scenario than Trump being POTUS IMO. However, I don’t think the republicans would vote for Pence after he stood up to Trump. They are completely beholden to Trump. I’m also worried that the Democrats don’t have anyone half decent to defeat the Republicans. I really like Andrew Yang, but he has created his own party and has no chance of beating the other two parties.

Trump was a puppet who went rogue. Pence is a nasty extremist who will be just as bad. If they get DeSantis on his ticket he will be fine. Pence was always their guy, Trump their vessel IMO. The Dems are so all over the place it is silly.
 

Looks like the plan is to give state legislatures the power to overrule the popular vote. The states that won Biden the election, like Georgia, suddenly goes to the republican candidate instead


Only if the Republicans are in charge of the states at that time, don't know whether these states vote differently at local level but wasn't that a solid red state that went blue. Could happen whenever the next state elections are too no?
 
i see a lot of women complaining in the US about abortion rights being taken away (rightly so).

Just a reminder that the majority of white women voted in 2016 for Donald Trump over Hilary Clinton.
 
i see a lot of women complaining in the US about abortion rights being taken away (rightly so).

Just a reminder that the majority of white women voted in 2016 for Donald Trump over Hilary Clinton.

A fair amount of them would be for the change in abortion rights to be fair.

Hopefully a wake up call for those that weren't.

Edit: Just to be clear, some of this change is on Trump. But my comment is mostly on voting for Republicans. I'm almost certain Trump himself is carelessly indifferent to abortion rights.

Any vote for any Republican, at any level, is support for this and the other changes made and incoming by this supreme court. That was the case in 2016 too, but understandably a lot of people probably didn't realise that at the time.
 
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A fair amount of them would be for the change in abortion rights to be fair.

Hopefully a wake up call for those that weren't.

Edit: Just to be clear, some of this change is on Trump. But my comment is mostly on voting for Republicans. I'm almost certain Trump himself is carelessly indifferent to abortion rights.

Any vote for any Republican, at any level, is support for this and the other changes made and incoming by this supreme court. That was the case in 2016 too, but understandably a lot of people probably didn't realise that at the time.

I don't think so, the tea party influence was long established, the Republican Party was a dangerous religious cult before trump got involved.

These people know exactly what they are voting for.
 
A fair amount of them would be for the change in abortion rights to be fair.

Hopefully a wake up call for those that weren't.

Edit: Just to be clear, some of this change is on Trump. But my comment is mostly on voting for Republicans. I'm almost certain Trump himself is carelessly indifferent to abortion rights.

Any vote for any Republican, at any level, is support for this and the other changes made and incoming by this supreme court. That was the case in 2016 too, but understandably a lot of people probably didn't realise that at the time.

Obama tried to get Ruth Bader Ginsburg to step down from the Supreme Court and retire because she was getting on in age and so that he could appoint a successor. She refused and Trump replaced her with a republican instead. I’d vote democrat if I was American but boy they don’t help themselves at times.
 
I don't think so, the tea party influence was long established, the Republican Party was a dangerous religious cult before trump got involved.

These people know exactly what they are voting for.

Some did, but I think many didn't.

It was clear to see if one invested time into this with a sufficiently open mind I think. Many people don't. Or for various reasons they believed, or let themselves believe, that this wouldn't happen.

If you could go back in time and ask people who voted for Trump if they thought they were voting for abortion restrictions many people would have honestly answered no. They were wrong, but people are often wrong.
 
Some did, but I think many didn't.

It was clear to see if one invested time into this with a sufficiently open mind I think. Many people don't. Or for various reasons they believed, or let themselves believe, that this wouldn't happen.

If you could go back in time and ask people who voted for Trump if they thought they were voting for abortion restrictions many people would have honestly answered no. They were wrong, but people are often wrong.
People are wilfully stupid.
They will find one item they care about and vote on that basis, regardless of the other policies.
E.g. if you don't want the hospital in your town to close, you will vote for the party that keeps it open, regardless of whether that party also advocates banning abortions or whatever
 
People are wilfully stupid.
They will find one item they care about and vote on that basis, regardless of the other policies.
E.g. if you don't want the hospital in your town to close, you will vote for the party that keeps it open, regardless of whether that party also advocates banning abortions or whatever

I think that's part of it. People actively choosing to stay uninformed. Honestly in a lot of situations I can understand that. Getting more informed about politics can be a low priority in people's lives.

I also think it's a case of people actively being misinformed and encouraged to care about one single issue and ignore others. Effectively misinforming people on political issues is a sizeable, and for some rather profitable, industry.

We're all susceptible to manipulation in many forms.
 
Just seen they've passed an inflation reduction bill which is based around spending even more money.
 
Just seen they've passed an inflation reduction bill which is based around spending even more money.
It is a climate bill really with some other stuff including tax increases and some health stuff, and is being correctly lauded as the most important climate bill in history in climate circles. It is not perfect but is huge progress nonetheless and I've seen it would save about 2 trillion over 20 years or so.
 
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