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American politics

Baleforce said:
I’ve made this mistake about a hundred times before, but, this really could be it for him, he could get hundreds of years of prison time.
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They have him dead to rights so I'm going to predict yes.

His motivation for running again is obviously to re-acquire his presidential immunity (and keep it indefinitely). So one of the charges being leveled against him with these stolen docs is "18 USC 2071 — Concealment, removal or mutilation". And legal twitter tells me this has a disappointingly small 3-year max sentence but also has the chaser of not being able to run for office again. For completeness the warrant (and Hugo above) also mentions '18 USC 793 — Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information' -> espionage, 10 years max and '18 USC 1519 — Destruction, alteration or falsification of records in Federal investigations' ->20 years max. Any or all of those would be nice.

And then there is this huge list...
https://www.justsecurity.org/75032/...riminal-and-civil-cases-against-donald-trump/
 
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Rorschach said:
They have him dead to rights so I'm going to predict yes.

His motivation for running again is obviously to re-acquire his presidential immunity (and keep it indefinitely). So one of the charges being leveled against him with these stolen docs is "18 USC 2071 — Concealment, removal or mutilation". And legal twitter tells me this has a disappointingly small 3-year max sentence but also has the chaser of not being able to run for office again. For completeness the warrant (and Hugo above) also mentions '18 USC 793 — Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information' -> espionage, 10 years max and '18 USC 1519 — Destruction, alteration or falsification of records in Federal investigations' ->20 years max. Any or all of those would be nice.

And then there is this huge list...
https://www.justsecurity.org/75032/...riminal-and-civil-cases-against-donald-trump/
Click to expand...

I’ve read it’s 10 years per document under 793.
 
Rorschach said:
They have him dead to rights so I'm going to predict yes.

His motivation for running again is obviously to re-acquire his presidential immunity (and keep it indefinitely). So one of the charges being leveled against him with these stolen docs is "18 USC 2071 — Concealment, removal or mutilation". And legal twitter tells me this has a disappointingly small 3-year max sentence but also has the chaser of not being able to run for office again. For completeness the warrant (and Hugo above) also mentions '18 USC 793 — Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information' -> espionage, 10 years max and '18 USC 1519 — Destruction, alteration or falsification of records in Federal investigations' ->20 years max. Any or all of those would be nice.

And then there is this huge list...
https://www.justsecurity.org/75032/...riminal-and-civil-cases-against-donald-trump/
Click to expand...

I've read the headlines, and even then just glanced at them, but have they actually found anything?
Seems to me they constantly do this, throw out accusations that they can never actually follow up on.
How many times is this now that they have "had" him.
Can't begin to wonder how incompetent they must be to not be able to pin something on the clam.
 
glasgowspur said:
I've read the headlines, and even then just glanced at them, but have they actually found anything?
Seems to me they constantly do this, throw out accusations that they can never actually follow up on.
How many times is this now that they have "had" him.
Can't begin to wonder how incompetent they must be to not be able to pin something on the clam.
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There's a list out containing what he had taken or rather the classification of same, which is now public.
 
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Baleforce said:
My memory of that is hazy, was she selling state secrets to the Saudi’s too?
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Removing official communications from recorded, public places to her own servers when the content was such that she wouldn't want it seen. Then intentionally destroying the information when others found out about it and wanted the data recorded officially.

Haven't seen anything about Trump selling the information yet, just keeping it.

Either way, they should both be in prison.
 
Hilary's emails while on a private server were all secured to DOS standards and no classified docs escaped into the wild. So the accusations against her were downgraded from mishandling and failure to secure classified docs to discussing classified info in non-classified emails. They found about 10 or so emails that were in this category but the infractions were so minor as to not warrant any reprimand. She also got permission to do this incidentally, which is a little reported point on this whole 'but her emails' thing.

Trump had docs that can only be read in a SCIF. In fact this content is so secret that there was only one bloke in the whole of the DOJ that had permission to even go see them in Mar-a-lago.

Not remotely the same.
 
Rorschach said:
There's a list out containing what he had taken or rather the classification of same, which is now public.
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What he had taken, or what they claim he has taken but can't prove?
That someone so corrupt and incompetent as trump has not yet actually had a charge laid against him that they can make stick does make you wonder.
Is he useful bogeyman, take him out and the public fade away thinking its job done.
 
glasgowspur said:
What he had taken, or what they claim he has taken but can't prove?
That someone so corrupt and incompetent as trump has not yet actually had a charge laid against him that they can make stick does make you wonder.
Is he useful bogeyman, take him out and the public fade away thinking its job done.
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Oh, I'm with you on how he has avoided prosecution. His family was involved with the Italian mob and later the Russian mob (who operated out of Trump tower) and countless other crimes over the years, so yes you would think something would have happened to him before now. That he was allowed to run for president at all is mind blowing. He has suffered in civil court repeatedly but managed to skate away from criminal liability over and over. This gave rise to the confidential informant theory, that he gave up his partners for immunity, but I'm dubious about that frankly. It is way more likely it is just because he is a rich white dude with expensive lawyers.

As for the classified documents, there is no vague accusation or debatable claim to prove. He took them, they have them back, and they are finger printing them.
 
Rorschach said:
Hilary's emails while on a private server were all secured to DOS standards and no classified docs escaped into the wild. So the accusations against her were downgraded from mishandling and failure to secure classified docs to discussing classified info in non-classified emails. They found about 10 or so emails that were in this category but the infractions were so minor as to not warrant any reprimand. She also got permission to do this incidentally, which is a little reported point on this whole 'but her emails' thing.

Trump had docs that can only be read in a SCIF. In fact this content is so secret that there was only one bloke in the whole of the DOJ that had permission to even go see them in Mar-a-lago.

Not remotely the same.
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What about all the ones she wiped when she was under investigation? Do we know what they said?
 
Rorschach said:
Oh, I'm with you on how he has avoided prosecution. His family was involved with the Italian mob and later the Russian mob (who operated out of Trump tower) and countless other crimes over the years, so yes you would think something would have happened to him before now. That he was allowed to run for president at all is mind blowing. He has suffered in civil court repeatedly but managed to skate away from criminal liability over and over. This gave rise to the confidential informant theory, that he gave up his partners for immunity, but I'm dubious about that frankly. It is way more likely it is just because he is a rich white dude with expensive lawyers.

As for the classified documents, there is no vague accusation or debatable claim to prove. He took them, they have them back, and they are finger printing them.
Click to expand...

Did they finally find something?
As i said I've not been following it, been off the grid a lot since Thursday night.
 
scaramanga said:
What about all the ones she wiped when she was under investigation? Do we know what they said?
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Some were from a Nigerian prince who needed to rest 13mil in her bank account I believe. They were personal emails not deemed relevant by her lawyers. You are going full Trump with this but if you know what was in them then do tell.
 
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Are comparisons made in order to exonerate people? I mean it is possible to believe Trumps a criminal whilst also recognising that Hilary Clinton and the like before here were also bent as a 9 bob note
 
scaramanga said:
It was quite widely reported at the time. Thousands of email (and their backups) had been erased from the server - the FBI were only able to recover some.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/03/us/politics/hillary-clinton-fbi.html
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partridge-i-dont-know.gif

I once deleted emails too.

So back to the original comparison, Hillary has some deleted emails and Trump has boxes of state secrets. Not the same really.
 
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