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American politics

Jurgen the German said:
Another reason I don’t like political correctness. This is right wing PC as opposed to left wing PC. It’s essentially sensitivity over truth.
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this is nothing to do with political correctness- such a shît say nothing term btw.

This is about glossing over the fact that America was founded on a genocide and built by slavery. Those facts are kind of inconvenient truths that get in the way of their perceived exceptionalism
 
DTA said:
this is nothing to do with political correctness- such a shît say nothing term btw.

This is about glossing over the fact that America was founded on a genocide and built by slavery. Those facts are kind of inconvenient truths that get in the way of their perceived exceptionalism
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But it is. They are using more watered down language because presumably the right wing base aren’t comfortable with the term slavery. They are trying to lesson its impact which is completely wrong.
 
I think one of the problems is that some terms have been co-opted as some broad-stroke pejorative with no bearing to their original meaning. Woke is a good example, or cancel culture is another meaningless expression now. In the example above, right-wing political correctness is an oxymoron in my opinion. There is no both sides to being an ignorant asshole. You are one or you are not.

I like to use the original definitions...
woke = not a fudging racist
pc = not a fudging asshole
cancel culture = own your fudging brick or face the consequences
....but as soon as I hear any of those terms being introduced to a discussion I tend to ignore the rest of what is being said as I know where things are headed.
 
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Jurgen the German said:
But it is. They are using more watered down language because presumably the right wing base aren’t comfortable with the term slavery. They are trying to lesson its impact which is completely wrong.
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I agree with everything you’re saying except that it is PCness. It isn’t in the way that phrase tends to get used.
 
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Rorschach said:
I think one of the problems is that some terms have been co-opted as some broad-stroke pejorative with no bearing to their original meaning. Woke is a good example, or cancel cultural is another meanless expression now. In the example above, right-wing political correctness is an oxymoron in my opinion. There is no both sides to being an ignorant asshole. You are one or you are not.

I like to use the original definitions...
woke = not a fudging racist
pc = not a fudging bigoted asshole
cancel culture = own your fudging brick
....but as soon as I hear any of those terms being introduced to a discussion I tend to ignore the rest of what is being said as I know where things are headed.
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I think this is on-point personally (and sadly!!!)
 
Rorschach said:
I think one of the problems is that some terms have been co-opted as some broad-stroke pejorative with no bearing to their original meaning. Woke is a good example, or cancel cultural is another meaningless expression now. In the example above, right-wing political correctness is an oxymoron in my opinion. There is no both sides to being an ignorant asshole. You are one or you are not.

I like to use the original definitions...
woke = not a fudging racist
pc = not a fudging bigoted asshole
cancel culture = own your fudging brick or face the consequences
....but as soon as I hear any of those terms being introduced to a discussion I tend to ignore the rest of what is being said as I know where things are headed.
Click to expand...

Liberalism should be about lifting people up who have been forgotten. Cancel culture is just petty and vindictive. People should be called out when they make a big fudge up, but there are times when an apology should be enough and we should move on with our lives. It shouldn’t be about going back hundreds of years and removing statues of historical figures like Lincoln and Churchill because they don’t measure up to today’s standards. You can’t apply todays norms and conventions to behaviour from 100 years ago. Slavery and colonialism used to be very common hundreds of years ago. It’s not good at all but people who engaged in it weren’t outliers in their times. I dare say a lot of people on this forum would have had slaves in those times unless you were Nostradamus and knew it was wrong back then. Even the bible has many passages about slavery and they don’t exactly condemn it.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Liberalism should be about lifting people up who have been forgotten. Cancel culture is just petty and vindictive. People should be called out when they make a big fudge up, but there are times when an apology should be enough and we should move on with our lives. It shouldn’t be about going back hundreds of years and removing statues of historical figures like Lincoln and Churchill because they don’t measure up to today’s standards. You can’t apply todays norms and conventions to behaviour from 100 years ago. Slavery and colonialism used to be very common hundreds of years ago. It’s not good at all but people who engaged in it weren’t outliers in their times. I dare say a lot of people on this forum would have had slaves in those times unless you were Nostradamus and knew it was wrong back then. Even the bible has many passages about slavery and they don’t exactly condemn it.
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I think you are missing my point. So for example, I am saying that the term cancel culture is now a catchall for what used to be just called accountability. The term is now meaningless. Michael Hobbes did a good deconstruction on it if I recall correctly. I'll dig it out. It might explain my point better than I am.
 
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Rorschach said:
I think you are missing my point. So for example, I am saying that the term cancel culture is now a catchall for what used to be just called accountability. The term is now meaningless. Michael Hobbes did a good deconstruction on it if I recall correctly. I'll dig it out. It might explain my point better than I am.
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Whilst I agree the term is too broadly used sometimes, there are countless examples of people losing their jobs over things they said and did years ago which they apologised for at the time but someone has resurrected a tweet, or for things they tweeted when they were teenagers. Or renaming schools named after Abraham Lincoln because his views aren’t liberal enough for 2022 even though for his time, his views were liberal and his actions deserve to be judged more than what he said, which was a completely different world. I think Ricky Gervais summed it up when he said he hopes he lives long enough to see todays woke generation cancelled for not being woke enough in 10-20 years time.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Whilst I agree the term is too broadly used sometimes, there are countless examples of people losing their jobs over things they said and did years ago which they apologised for at the time but someone has resurrected a tweet, or for things they tweeted when they were teenagers. Or renaming schools named after Abraham Lincoln because his views aren’t liberal enough for 2022 even though for his time, his views were liberal and his actions deserve to be judged more than what he said, which was a completely different world. I think Ricky Gervais summed it up when he said he hopes he lives long enough to see todays woke generation cancelled for not being woke enough in 10-20 years time.
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You are more or less doing exactly as I described in my post above. Applying a hugely broad interpretation to the phrase cancel culture which renders it meaningless, imo. Now normally I would have stopped paying attention before now (see my original post) but in the interest of discussion here is the Michael Hobbes vid I referred to earlier. You might not agree with it but I think it is on the money.
 
Rorschach said:
You are more or less doing exactly as I described in my post above. Applying a hugely broad interpretation to the phrase cancel culture which renders it meaningless, imo. Now normally I would have stopped paying attention before now (see my original post) but in the interest of discussion here is the Michael Hobbes vid I referred to earlier. You might not agree with it but I think it is on the money.
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I get the point you’re making but I disagree completely. There are many examples of people being cancelled for things they did decades ago. Or things they tweeted when they weren’t adults. We need more people like John McWhorter (see below) and less people like Owen Jones

 
Jurgen the German said:
I get the point you’re making but I disagree completely. There are many examples of people being cancelled for things they did decades ago. Or things they tweeted when they weren’t adults. We need more people like John McWhorter (see below) and less people like Owen Jones

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Owen Jones is an arsehole. He still thinks the answer to every problem is Jeremy Corbyn.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I get the point you’re making but I disagree completely. There are many examples of people being cancelled for things they did decades ago. Or things they tweeted when they weren’t adults. We need more people like John McWhorter (see below) and less people like Owen Jones

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Nah you didn't. Have a good one.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Its called politely disagreeing :)
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Actually, we are not disagreeing about anything really. We are not even talking about the same thing. You are giving examples of things being canceled whereas I am saying that the term cancel culture has become a replacement word to decribe different forms of accountability i.e. the consequences of your actions. Different discussions.
 
Rorschach said:
Actually, we are not disagreeing about anything really. We are not even talking about the same thing. You are giving examples of things being canceled whereas I am saying that the term cancel culture has become a replacement word to decribe different forms of accountability i.e. the consequences of your actions. Different discussions.
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I never said people shouldn’t be held accountable, but not for individuals like Lincoln who lived centuries ago but people have decided just now that his values don’t measure up to todays standards. That’s not accountability, it’s a cheap way to make yourself look more enlightened. I think people resurrecting decade old tweets and other people piling on in an attempt to de-platform them or get them fired is petty. If you think that’s “Accountability” then I guess we will have to leave it there.
 
Rorschach said:
More lives than a bag of cats but I'd put money on him going down now, or at least being indicted. Direct testimony today was stunning stuff and really only the tip of the iceberg. The DOJ likely has all this and more, including the documentary they were filming. That's how confident they were it would succeed.
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Why are the DOJ filming a documentary? I think all these big hearings on prime time TV and hyping it up to gain audiences will backfire on them personally.

Whilst it's damming it's not as damming as Biden's approval ratings.
 
P.D. said:
Why are the DOJ filming a documentary? I think all these big hearings on prime time TV and hyping it up to gain audiences will backfire on them personally.

Whilst it's damming it's not as damming as Biden's approval ratings.
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Not the DOJ, the Trumpians were. A chap called Alex Holder was with the Trumps in and around the time of the insurrection.

The Jan 6 hearings have already exceeded expectations by all accounts. It has already done what it intended to do.
 
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