Craig_J
Mido
? They are second in Seire A at the moment. Of course whether or not they will have anything to play for come our game remains to be seen but at the moment they have a lot to play for.
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2015/16 Europa League - Round of 16: Borussia Dortmund
- Thread starter 90sSpursBook
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? They are second in Seire A at the moment. Of course whether or not they will have anything to play for come our game remains to be seen but at the moment they have a lot to play for.
greatwhitenorf
Edgar Davids
I always found Fiorentina an easy club to disapprove of. They've been mired in all sorts of scandals, financial gymnastics and nasty fan behaviour for ages. Just about the right sort of club to play in the hometown of the infamous Medici family.
So, we go into this year's re-match with reasons to be optimistic.
At first glance, we're going up against the second place team in the Serie A table. Their record thus far is (WDL)10-2-4, and they're 16 goals to the good. Impressive, yes. But a closer look reveals something more akin to a flat-track bully than a powerhouse.
They started the season on fire, going 6-0-1 - including a 4-1 spanking of first-place Inter - before cooling off after losing a couple of games to Roma and Napoli in October. They're 4-2-4 in their last 10 and just lost 3-1 to Juventus.
The domestic schedules do Spurs a favour or two. Going into February, Spurs host Watford on Feb. 6, then play away at Emirates Marketing Project on the 13th. We don't play another league game until Feb. 27 when Swansea come in. I'm guessing the gap around Feb. 20 is for FA Cup play?
Fiorentina have a more demanding fixture list.
Feb. 07 - @ Bologna
14 - Inter
21 - @ Atalanta
28 - Napoli
Mar. 06 - @ Roma
Apart from playing two current top three rivals, the Feb. 7 game is the Derby Dell Apennines at nearby rival Bologna, a series with a heated hateful history. They host Inter, on Feb. 14, who will be looking to set things right after that early season loss. Between playing Spurs, they visit Italian talent factory Atalanta, a decent side not far behind them and not one to take lightly.
So, before and after playing the Spurs ties, they have major matches on the heels of a nasty derby. These games will largely define whether Fiorentina finish top three. I can't see this club making a tough Europa league tie a priority over these games. Their fans will want to make the domestic games a priority if they're still near the top and battling for a title or CL placings.
We're gonna spank 'em.
So, we go into this year's re-match with reasons to be optimistic.
At first glance, we're going up against the second place team in the Serie A table. Their record thus far is (WDL)10-2-4, and they're 16 goals to the good. Impressive, yes. But a closer look reveals something more akin to a flat-track bully than a powerhouse.
They started the season on fire, going 6-0-1 - including a 4-1 spanking of first-place Inter - before cooling off after losing a couple of games to Roma and Napoli in October. They're 4-2-4 in their last 10 and just lost 3-1 to Juventus.
The domestic schedules do Spurs a favour or two. Going into February, Spurs host Watford on Feb. 6, then play away at Emirates Marketing Project on the 13th. We don't play another league game until Feb. 27 when Swansea come in. I'm guessing the gap around Feb. 20 is for FA Cup play?
Fiorentina have a more demanding fixture list.
Feb. 07 - @ Bologna
14 - Inter
21 - @ Atalanta
28 - Napoli
Mar. 06 - @ Roma
Apart from playing two current top three rivals, the Feb. 7 game is the Derby Dell Apennines at nearby rival Bologna, a series with a heated hateful history. They host Inter, on Feb. 14, who will be looking to set things right after that early season loss. Between playing Spurs, they visit Italian talent factory Atalanta, a decent side not far behind them and not one to take lightly.
So, before and after playing the Spurs ties, they have major matches on the heels of a nasty derby. These games will largely define whether Fiorentina finish top three. I can't see this club making a tough Europa league tie a priority over these games. Their fans will want to make the domestic games a priority if they're still near the top and battling for a title or CL placings.
We're gonna spank 'em.
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Lemonade Money
Les Medley
Well I don't know about spanking them, but we're a more rounded team than last season, and we don't have the league cup distraction.
Lemonade Money
Les Medley
BTW, we tried to get a spanking in Florence to no avail. Boring away day.
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
Its not a new drum to bang its the same drum.
Poch cant do rotation. Poch cant prioritise competitions sensibly.
Its like he's going into every game completely unaware of where we are in the league table.
Last year no chance of doing anything in the league. Full team against west ham. Then he starts Chiriches at right back, Soldado, Stambouli, Paulinho against Fiorentina.
This year he sends the first team to Asia 48 hours before Chelsea because he wants a second leg at home?
Should be all just ignore it and pretend its having no effect?
Gazzasrightboot
Pascal Chimbonda
No, but you're not showing what the effect is. That sequence of 3 games this season was pretty good results wise. You may think that we should have beaten Chelsea but I think it was a decent result. The recent rest hardly did Kane and the others who were rested any good against Saudi Sportswashing Machine did it? Our performances are not solely predicated on whether or not our players feel fresh, or worse yet, you feel they feel fresh.
Our second half of last season was better than our first. Our Xmas period last year was pretty damn good. We had a lot of games last season and still managed a very respectable finish with the only disappointments being perhaps Europa and FA Cup. Did we lose those due to tiredness and tiredness alone?
Your reasoning for deciding that Poch doesn't and cannot prioritise competitions sensibly is flawed. Plenty of people have pointed it out.
As for last year, no chance in doing anything in the league. At what point was that decided? Before or after we played Fiorentina? We finished fifth didn't we (6 points from top 4 in his first season)? We got to a cup final didn't we? We got to the fourth round of the FA Cup? We got to the last 32 of the Europa and got knocked out to the eventual semi-finalists?
And seeing as you're bringing up that sequence of games. Do you not think that the cup final was what we should have played our first choice team for?
10 Feb Liverpool away - we lose 3-2
19 Feb Fiorentina home - we draw 1-1 (Soldado scores)
22 Feb West Ham home - we draw 2-2
26 Feb Fiorentina away - we lose 2-0 (Soldado, Chiriches and Stambouli start but Paulinho doesn't)
1 March Chelsea Wembley - we lose
4 March Swansea home - we win 3-2
So Poch "prioritises" the cup final against the Europa. Plenty would. Plenty have. Plenty will. You're being disingenuous by suggesting that Poch prioritised the league over the Europa.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
OK.
Let's look at that. How many of those players are still at the club? He had to 'out' them and could not afford to do it in the league. I think the truth is you disagree with his rotation. That's all.
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
19th Feb Fiorentina home
1 H. Lloris
5 J. Vertonghen
21 F. Fazio
2 K. Walker
33 B. Davies
8 Paulinho
22 N. Chadli
17 A. Townsend
23 C. Eriksen
42 N. Bentaleb
9 Soldado
22nd Feb West Ham home
1 H. Lloris
5 J. Vertonghen
3 D. Rose
2 K. Walker
15 E. Dier
19 M. Dembélé
38 R. Mason
17 A. Townsend
11 E. Lamela
42 N. Bentaleb
18 H. Kane
26th Feb Fiorentina away
1 H. Lloris
5 J. Vertonghen
21 F. Fazio
6 V. Chiricheş
33 B. Davies
22 N. Chadli
11 E. Lamela
23 C. Eriksen
25 B. Stambouli
42 N. Bentaleb
9 Soldado
1 March Chelsea This is the definite first team
1 H. Lloris - 4th game
5 J. Vertonghen - 4th game
3 D. Rose - 2nd game
2 K. Walker - 3rd game
15 E. Dier - 2nd game
22 N. Chadli - 3rd game
38 R. Mason - 2nd game
17 A. Townsend - 3rd game
23 C. Eriksen - 3rd game
42 N. Bentaleb - 4th game
18 H. Kane - 2nd game
If the league + cup is the priority why play Eriksen and Chadli in both Europa games rest them against West Ham. Why take the entire squad to Italy before the Carling Cup final leaving only Emmanuel Adebayor, Kaboul and Capoue behind?
At some point this season Poch will decide fudge it and send half a team out in the Europa knock outs and all the effort we went to in the group stage will go to waste as usual. Everyone will agree we should play the kids next year in the groups. Then when the games come round in September. We'll be flying the first team off to get a point in 4000 mile round trips 48 hours before league games. The results of which will actually mean something come the end of the season.
milo
Jack L. Jones
I'm suggesting that you bang a new drum because constantly going on about the same thing and not listening to what anyone else says is getting pretty boring.
Hidden
Luke Young
also we gained additional coefficient points which is important nowadays
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
It depends. I think England losing the 4th CL place will actually help us as a club. It will completely ruin either United or (more likely) Arsenal, as their entire financial model won't be able to cope with being on the outside of the cartel.
One less club getting CL riches, my only concern is you just know we will finish 4th the year 4th doesn't get you CL ...
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
It's the only thing that allows United and Arsenal to keep pace with the 2 doped clubs. Take that away and they fall straight back into the second tier with us and Liverpool.
Arsenal and Liverpool are about the same level. United are in a league of their own.
jts1882
Dean Richards
The Champions League trap was almost absolute when there was a clear top four who got it every year, one way or another. That always gave Liverpool a big, and almost insurmountable, advantage over us. It was a £30m gap when that was a big proportion of our income.
Since Liverpool's fall under the Texans and the rise of City there hasn't been such a clear divide, partly because the large PL revenues made the CL bonus less critical. It's not guaranteed money any more so I think you may be right that the 4th spot is not as critical for English clubs.
However, the financial advantages held by United, Chelsea and City mean they could establish a top three that is hard to break as they wouldn't depend on the CL money the way Liverpool did. One would have to mess up to give someone else a chance. Fortunately they have all developed this ability.
Gazzasrightboot
Pascal Chimbonda
So look at the options available to him, and I will take each player in turn notwithstanding the fact you were talking about Chiriches starting a game along with Paulinho and Soldado against Fiorentina which did not happen.
Lloris - played 4 times - I don't see a problem with a keeper playing that many games;
Vertongen - played 4 games - what were the alternatives? Kaboul (liability)/Chiriches (decided to play at right back but also liability)/Fazio (played twice) / Dier (played twice). So there was rotation;
Rose - played twice - was our first choice left back and Davies played twice so good rotation or no?
Walker - played three times - Alternatives were Dier (played twice) and Chiriches (liability)
Dier - played twice - rotated and played half the games;
Chadli - Played 3 times - A goal threat, and again what were the options? Lamela (played twice), Townsend (played 3 times), Paulinho (played once so could have rotated more), Townsend (played three times), Eriksen (played 3 times). So could have rotated Paulinho more?
Mason - played twice - rotated effectively?
Townsend - played 3 times - see Chadli above. Potentially could have rotated with Paulinho
Eriksen - Played 3 times - See Chadli above. See how options were limited?
Bentaleb - Played 4 times - Options were Stambouli (played once), Dembele (played once) and Capoue (ostracised). So could have rotated more but I cannot remember if there were any injuries at that time;
Kane - Played twice - Rotated effectively?
So, notwithstanding the fact that there may have been injuries that we're not quite remembering, I count that possibly we could have rotated one of Chadli, Erksen and Townsend with Paulinho and Bentaleb. Hardly the "poch doesn't know how to rotate" claim that you make.
As for your point about if league + cup being the priority why play Eriksen and Chadli in both Europa games and then rest them against West Ham. There are so many possibilities! but let me list a few:
1. Prioritising doesn't mean that you force rotation if you feel that the players can take it;
2. As mentioned above, the alternatives for those players was just the one player, Paulinho who plainly Poch didn't really rate;
3. At any one point in time, one of the alternatives could have had a niggle, didn't feel right or he may have planned to rotate by only playing them for a half/60 minutes. Out of the matches that they played, how many full minutes did they play?
4. Prioritising doesn't mean that you put out a team that is completely second string/of alternatives;
5. Poch will have put out the team that he feels will win. Eriksen had a season where he was scoring lots of last minute winners and Chadli was also scoring as well. Why withdraw goal threats in a team when the alternatives were not scoring? Why not just throw the game?
6. Poch will analyse the fitness of players. I trust his judgement more than any other as he will have the full information available to him. Why would he want to run players into the ground for no reason? He knows their fitness, he ensured we had the fittest team in the league and, let's not forget, we scored more points in the second half of the season than we did in the first. So where is this "poch's rotation is hurting us" coming from.
afsoc4life
Vedran Corluka
Bye Spurs.
Gazzasrightboot
Pascal Chimbonda
parklane1
Tony Galvin
That's the sprit.
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