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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

monkeybarry said:
The equivalent of "that's not the religion I believe in".

It should pave the way for the next Government (probably Labour) to move us into the single market again and keep a decent amount of alignment with the EU but without being fully bound by it's decision making.
Hopefully.

That's actually a Brexit I would probably have voted for. With the Caveat I still don't trust the UK political system to manage it effectively.
However, considering a close to 50/50 referendum result, it's probably quite a good middle ground and representative of overall feeling and desire.
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The thing is you end up following the rules and have no input into creating them. So this model is hard to justify. Most of the EU rules relate to maintaining the single market. Competition law, factory pollution laws, farming ecology laws etc etc etc etc. So you end up taking 80% of the EU laws with zero say in them. Makes no sense. Yet it is better than we have now, granted.
 
Rorschach said:
Here's today's scandal in case anyone missed it.
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If anyone thinks bribery and corruption do not exist in our democracy, here is an insight into how we do it in the UK. It is more subtle than poorer nations granted, and often 'above board' via massive sums paid to law firms. Connections within the establishment abound to facilitate these slimy deals. With a legal veneer, we allowed a guy who was sanctioned by the US in 2016 for running bot farms, to interrogate our own citizen and journalist, who did nothing other than publish the truth. He spent 70k defending himself. Were it not for the war they would have continued to legally harass and intimidate.

It was becoming a known playbook of the Russian elite. Anyone who dared to show up their corrupt ways they would tie up in massive legal costs claiming defamation. Aaron Banks did the very same. Trying to intimidate other journalists from exposing the truth. And our UK establishment stood by, watched, and made a fuk of a lot of money in 'official' fees for 'professional' services. There was nothing professional or ethical about this conduct, simply greed and a willingness to look the other way..

Never sell out your ethics is the moral of the story. You'll have to live with it, as Borris has to now. He cavorted with the Russian elites and sucked on their oil filed teets. As did Aaron Banks and many others. They carry the shame.
 
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SpurMeUp said:
The thing is you end up following the rules and have no input into creating them. So this model is hard to justify. Most of the EU rules relate to maintaining the single market. Competition law, factory pollution laws, farming ecology laws etc etc etc etc. So you end up taking 80% of the EU laws with zero say in them. Makes no sense. Yet it is better than we have now, granted.
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Indeed.
But we chose to remove ourselves from having a say. I don't like it - but that's democracy.
The justification is an easy one - it's better than what we currently have or what else we can achieve.
 
SpurMeUp said:
If anyone thinks bribery and corruption do not exist in our democracy, here is an insight into how we do it in the UK. It is more subtle than poorer nations granted, and often 'above board' via massive sums paid to law firms. Connections within the establishment abound to facilitate these slimy deals. With a legal veneer, we allowed a guy who was sanctioned by the US in 2016 for running bot farms, to interrogate our own citizen and journalist, who did nothing other than publish the truth. He spent 70k defending himself. Were it not for the war they would have continued to legally harass and intimidate.

It was becoming a known playbook of the Russian elite. Anyone who dared to show up their corrupt ways they would tie up in massive legal costs claiming defamation. Aaron Banks did the very same. Trying to intimidate other journalists from exposing the truth. And our UK establishment stood by, watched, and made a fuk of a lot of money in 'official' fees for 'professional' services. There was nothing professional or ethical about this conduct, simply greed and a willingness to look the other way..

Never sell out your ethics is the moral of the story. You'll have to live with it, as Borris has to now. He cavorted with the Russian elites and sucked on their oil filed teets. As did Aaron Banks and many others. They carry the shame.
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Agree with all but the last bit. They don't don't care enough to have any shame. They have been successful in getting what they want.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Why do you think Boris racks up the air miles to Kiev? Guilt.
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He’s a narcissist and loves attention. He’s also dreaming that he will be back leading the Tory party into the next election. And it also diverts him from getting on with doing his actual job of being a backbench MP and representing his constituents, which he no doubt thinks is beneath him.

He is a complete bell-end.
 
DTA said:
bruv… guilt haha… you just know he is making money out of it somehow right?
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Ukrainians love him. And to be fair he's been hugely pro-Ukraine and backed them. They don't know that 2 years ago he was in the pocket of the Russian oligarchs. But that is very much the nature of the conflict. The elites playing chess with a map, the US expanding its reach via NATO, the Russian Empire and its ego. With oligarchs and despots holding the reigns of power. Even Zelenskyy got in on it. Pre-war he wasn't loved. Had been exposed as having off-shore accounts with millions hidden away during a Panama accounting firm hack. Boris has a few chums at BAE, they pick up the multi-million contract to supply Challenger tanks to Ukraine. With chains of hidden offshore accounts in other people's name making it easy to hide bungs, favours held in lieu...Boris will make his return no doubt.
 
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Diamond Lights said:
crazy thing is how many thousands will go out and vote for the Tories in the next GE. these guys... genuinely unreal
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You always say this, it's as predictable as Dubaispur blaming a loss in a football game on Levy / ENIC, but do you appreciate why though?.

FWITW my question is how can you go about it in a positiive manner?

I've seen first hand how much help the NHS needs and have had to help myself (physically).how can we help beyond personal involvement?

I legitimately want to know, beyond not voting for right wing parties what can we actually do?
 
Temporarily nationalise private hospitals to deal with the backlog

Remove the NHS from alignment with EU tendering/procurement frameworks

Devolution/localism in hospital management

Social and environmental prescribing replacing drugs in many instances
 
spurspinter1 said:
You always say this, it's as predictable as Dubaispur blaming a loss in a football game on Levy / ENIC, but do you appreciate why though?.

FWITW my question is how can you go about it in a positiive manner?

I've seen first hand how much help the NHS needs and have had to help myself (physically).how can we help beyond personal involvement?

I legitimately want to know, beyond not voting for right wing parties what can we actually do?
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No, i genuinely dont appreciate why. Unless you're a multi millionaire, how has anyone's life improved under this govt since 2010? So i cannot appreciate why people would vote this lot back in if given the chance.

In terms of what we can do, there's not much. We voted for this brick (not me specficially) so you reap what you sow. If people stopped reading The Sun and Mail would also be a great start.
 
Diamond Lights said:
No, i genuinely dont appreciate why. Unless you're a multi millionaire, how has anyone's life improved under this govt since 2010? So i cannot appreciate why people would vote this lot back in if given the chance.

In terms of what we can do, there's not much. We voted for this brick (not me specficially) so you reap what you sow. If people stopped reading The Sun and Mail would also be a great start.
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I agree to a certain extent but blaming people for what you or I may consider to be a bad decision in the past (voting wise) is hardly going to help is it? The same with choice of media intake but I do find that one very frustrating too, people find it more comforting to get worked up by the "wokies / do gooders" than to really consider how many people in the world don't have clean water etc

Saw it on here that Maggie Thatcher is responsible for the current housing crisis, it's not on one side or the other but on us all for not doing enough to help today.
 
Diamond Lights said:
crazy thing is how many thousands will go out and vote for the Tories in the next GE. these guys... genuinely unreal
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I hear what you’re saying and I’m as sick of the tories as most people but it is also an indictment of the Labour Party also I’m afraid. People haven’t felt they have been electable for the past 13 years. If 2016 onwards has taught us anything its elections are totally unpredictable and impossible to call, polling doesn’t seem to indicate anything and often seems wildly wrong compared to the outcomes. But I’d like to think the next election will be a lot closer than the last one. In general, people in this country tend to get tired and want a change regardless of who is in charge after 10-15 years of the same government.

The tories selling point always used to be they were effective despite being unlikeable. But they’re not effective anymore when it comes to budget for example so hopefully that will be enough to sway voters and elect Labour again.
 
What you see now, especially around the NHS is by design. For the most part this is not incompetence nor accidental. Anyone who believes that is a bit gullible. The chaos you see now is just opportunity for some. The uk's shock doctrine.

You need rid of these vampires.
 
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