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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

glasgowspur said:
I disagree, especially in a firesale, our second best player went for £17m in a firesale.
Who was going to pay £50m for Sissoko, or lamela?
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A player with just 6 months left on his contract. A player able to sign a pre contract deal and go on a free at that point. The fact we could still get £17m for him then from an overseas club shows how valuable he was in a normal contract situation.

Nobody would’ve needed to pay that for Sissoko or Lamela. In fact nobody would’ve needed to pay anything at all for them. When Poch’s squad were at their peak (the last season at WHL or first at Wembley) the first 11 alone would’ve fetched more than £500m
 
Muttley said:
I actually think it is this thought process where we need to be braver in the future.

I would ask fans to really ask themselves what we really got from Toby and Eriksen after these key moments where we were scared to sell them. The answer is not much. The reality is that Toby was pretty average towards the end of his Spurs career. Eriksen played for that last 18 months with such a can't be arsed attitude and frustrated all of us. They weren't worth more on the pitch than in our transfer kitty at all.

There is also an element of failure from our recruitment teams that scares us in these situations as well. It basically took 5 years to replace Walker with Porro. Trips didn't step up from his backup, and Aurier was a mess. Emerson failed whilst perhaps KWP and Foyth weren't given ample opportunities to win the shirt. After the RB debacle, I can see why we were scared to sell. No different from my old man telling me how he watched our double 61 side get replaced one by one with lesser players.

However, that is still not a good reason to shift players when they refuse to sign new deals and start running down the clock. We need the money in our transfer kitty, not players that aren't all in. .
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I mostly agree.

But it's also difficult to know beforehand. Several players have also stayed on after wanting a move away and been really good. Modric and Kane for example.

All individual decisions and errors will be made. But we've probably been too reluctant to sell good players that want a move on the whole.

Ange, based on what he's said, seems quite clear that he only wants players that really want to be here, for new signings at least.

Fully agreed on recruitment. That needs to be better than it was and seems to be quite good now.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Indeed and that is before you get beyond the best 11 players. Mourinho was trying to get Dier to Man Utd and prepared to pay £50m for example.
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Sorry but I disagree, and from that list I don't think we are getting £120m for Toby, Jan and rose.
But it's OK to disagree, so let's move on.
 
glasgowspur said:
Sorry but I disagree, and from that list I don't think we are getting £120m for Toby, Jan and rose.
But it's OK to disagree, so let's move on.
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Honestly we don't need to fixate on specific fees, the important part is we could have used the values of the squad to regenerate the squad in a far better way than we do.
 
thfcsteff said:
Imagine if Poch had got Grealish and Bruno Fernandez, which was on the cards but, well, yeah, 'somehow' neither deal got concluded because of, errr, hmmm...
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Not sure Bruno Fernandes would have been worth the money. Go watch or read any United blog and most of them feel he flatters to deceive.
 
I don't know when this dodge period will end, but I wish it would . Either we do great business in Jan and something clicks or we just drag this season out and believes Ange makes it better
 
Mrs Vert said:
I don't know when this dodge period will end, but I wish it would . Either we do great business in Jan and something clicks or we just drag this season out and believes Ange makes it better
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I think it will have to end before the season ends for Ange to survive.

We need players back from injuries and a less exhausted team for that to happen imo. Januar gives us the option to accelerate that.

Personally I think Ange needs to put more trust in Spence, Gray, Bergvall, Moore (when back) and/or Lankshear. They may not be good enough to improve us when playing, but trusting them more could help alleviate the fatigue that I think is really hurting us right now.

If that fatigue just continues I don't think performances will improve markedly and the risk of further injuries before others return will be significant - further extending the current period of suffering.
 
braineclipse said:
I think it will have to end before the season ends for Ange to survive.

We need players back from injuries and a less exhausted team for that to happen imo. Januar gives us the option to accelerate that.

Personally I think Ange needs to put more trust in Spence, Gray, Bergvall, Moore (when back) and/or Lankshear. They may not be good enough to improve us when playing, but trusting them more could help alleviate the fatigue that I think is really hurting us right now.

If that fatigue just continues I don't think performances will improve markedly and the risk of further injuries before others return will be significant - further extending the current period of suffering.
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It will have to end over Xmas for Ange to survive IMO, we are only 11 points off the bottom 3 with one of the worst current forms in the division and Ange has never shown the type of consistency needed to get out of that sort of hole if we look like we are falling into it. We lose to Southampton we will only be 8 points off the bottom 3. We will then play Liverpool and Forest before another bottom 3 side in Wolves by which time that would be billed a 6 pointer and I think he'd be gone. The club can't afford to even contemplate getting into that sort of situation. A bad loss to Southampton would see him gone IMO.
 
Kompakted said:
It will have to end over Xmas for Ange to survive IMO, we are only 11 points off the bottom 3 with one of the worst current forms in the division and Ange has never shown the type of consistency needed to get out of that sort of hole if we look like we are falling into it. We lose to Southampton we will only be 8 points off the bottom 3. We will then play Liverpool and Forest before another bottom 3 side in Wolves by which time that would be billed a 6 pointer and I think he'd be gone. The club can't afford to even contemplate getting into that sort of situation. A bad loss to Southampton would see him gone IMO.
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Would have to be a really bad loss against Southampton for me to think that was likely. Lost the dressing room kind of bad.

Impossible to know how long he has if our current really bad run keeps going. But there will definitely be some kind of limit there. Lose the next four and he's in real trouble imo.
 
braineclipse said:
Would have to be a really bad loss against Southampton for me to think that was likely. Lost the dressing room kind of bad.

Impossible to know how long he has if our current really bad run keeps going. But there will definitely be some kind of limit there. Lose the next four and he's in real trouble imo.
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Southampton are bottom. A deserved loss to them, similar to recent performances would be "really bad". Not just in isolation but in terms of where it would leave us: very much looking nervously over our shoulder and having to prioritise staying in the division over any hope of European places or silverware. Ange is the opposite kind of manager for that situation too. When you get in the s***, you need pragmatism to the max. "It's a process mate" and "it's how we play mate" won't cut it anymore.
 
Kompakted said:
Southampton are bottom. A deserved loss to them, similar to recent performances would be "really bad". Not just in isolation but in terms of where it would leave us: very much looking nervously over our shoulder and having to prioritise staying in the division over any hope of European places or silverware. Ange is the opposite kind of manager for that situation too. When you get in the s***, you need pragmatism to the max. "It's a process mate" and "it's how we play mate" won't cut it anymore.
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I don't think he's that close to the sack personally, but again impossible to actually know.

I also don't think a loss this weekend makes us look over our shoulders quite as nervously as you say. I know we have some tougher games coming up after Southampton and things could look rather bleak looking at the table over Christmas if things continue like this and teams in the bottom third start picking up points at a better rate than they have. But we're not there yet.

Let's hope we beat Southampton and don't figure out who of us has the best hunch on this...
 
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