Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

[mudshark]

It’s amazing that those first ten games have got so many blinkered about him. Yet managers with better performances and win ratios were hounded out.

I’m actually dumbfounded about how he is still in a job. It’s the desperation for having a long term manager I get that bit … but you want a manager who warrants that backing who has shown that he can win and clever enough to manage situations.

It's been clear to me ever since he started taking us down the table and was still allowed to continue in the job that Levy doesn't want the headache of replacing him mid-season, particularly after his experience prior to appointing Nuno. As long as there's that buffer of 8-10 points or more (hopefully) between us and the relegation places, I'm certain that'll be the case till the end of the season, although if the gap starts closing, it will likely force his hand, in which case, my guess would be Mason back in as caretaker. I'll be astonished (and very alarmed) if Postecoglou isn't out the door in the summer though. He's a flush that was busted on 6 November 2023.

 

[harr1984]

I think he's always been a bit chippy and thin-skinned, to be honest.

When people were getting carried away with how good we were at the start of Anges tenure, Ange constantly said he doesn't listen to the media hyping them up. There's nothing new here, he's consistent with what he's saying.....

 

[Muttley]

Agree with most of that except the bit about Davies where I think you’re being a little harsh.

Even Ange’s comments after the game about “the lesson is we shouldn’t deviate from what got us here to start with” reek of “I’ve tried what everyone else wanted and look how that turned out. I know best.”

There will always be an excuse for Ange. “Not enough football”, “too much football”, “unlucky with injuries”, “hasn’t been backed” and so on and so on.

If he got sacked tomorrow, he and his supporters would claim that he was hard done by and had to deal with unprecedented circumstances.

For me, the evidence has been there for over a year now (in fact, it’s been there since even earlier if you looked beyond the results in the first 10 games). He’s just not good enough for this level.

Being 14th in the league in February is pretty much as bad as anyone can do managing Tottenham.

So back to Davies

1st goal, didn't have the technical ability on the ball in the lead up to the goal. Then did his normal thing of drifting over to left back rather than be a centre half. He still doesn't think like one and Salah picked his pocket. Ben made it easy for them.

2nd goal, a decent centre half wins that header as it comes across. Flat footed with his balance shifted the wrong way. Happens a lot with Ben.

3rd goal, shocking ball out from the back by Ben. Turnover ball, penalty. Totally culpable.

4th goal, was caught deeper than the rest if his defence but it was Danso's lack of match fitness that really cost us there. I think a fresh Danso probably gets that.

I actually don't think I'm being harsh at all. Defending is subtle and Davies just doesn't have the positional sense and reading of the game to excel in that position. He's no technician of the football either and doesn't have a great physiology for that position. No doubt, a good talker in the back line but really wanting in most attributes. I think there was a massive reason why the club were in for a Disasi loan a week or so ago.

I really hope we can get VDV back quickly to solve this problem.

 

[Robspur12]

When people were getting carried away with how good we were at the start of Anges tenure, Ange constantly said he doesn't listen to the media hyping them up. There's nothing new here, he's consistent with what he's saying.....

I remember at least 1 presser when it was put to him about whether fans could dream about the title and I don't think he dampened down the hype to be fair mate. Although I didn't see anything wrong with that. In fact I thought it was quite refreshing.

Ange Postecoglou on Tottenham's Premier League title chances: 'Let the fans dream'

Tottenham boss Ange Postecoglou: Let them dream. Its what being a football fan is all about. Its fair to say that this lot have suffered a fair bit so Im certainly not going to dampen that. Dreams last as long as they do until someone wakes you up. Well see.

www.skysports.com

 

[harr1984]

I remember at least 1 presser when it was put to him about whether fans could dream about the title and I don't think he dampened down the hype to be fair mate. Although I didn't see anything wrong with that. In fact I thought it was quite refreshing.

Ange Postecoglou on Tottenham's Premier League title chances: 'Let the fans dream'

Tottenham boss Ange Postecoglou: Let them dream. Its what being a football fan is all about. Its fair to say that this lot have suffered a fair bit so Im certainly not going to dampen that. Dreams last as long as they do until someone wakes you up. Well see.

www.skysports.com

Yeah, I remember that too - I certainly wasn't going to dream though But the point was he has said many times he doesn't pay attention to the media, when we was winning - he's not just saying it now because we are losing. But personally I couldn't care less about what he says either way, and I don't think anyone would if we actually started winning consistently again....

 

[Legohamster]

We were brick when they wasn’t injured and we had a full strength squad fresh after being heavily rotated for cup games. Football fans really do have short memories.

Completely ignoring last season when we sucked as well with one game a season, losing 12 games in the league and conceding for fun.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

Completely ignoring last season when we sucked as well with one game a season, losing 12 games in the league and conceding for fun.

Yeah other than the first run of games under the new manager bounce while teams didn't know how to play us we've been consistently inconsistent for over a year regardless of who has been playing and how fresh or fatigued the players have been.

 

[thfcsteff]

We were brick when they wasn’t injured and we had a full strength squad fresh after being heavily rotated for cup games. Football fans really do have short memories.

Yes they do LOL!!! And even shorter perspectives!

 

[El Dante]

Yes they do LOL!!! And even shorter perspectives!

Because it’s so high emotion and rollercoaster. So all the emotions are higher in the moment and so are the subsequent reactions.

 

[Bullet]

one of the reasons is that Slot has a low injury record in his career. So it's unlikely his teams will ever have 8 players out with hamstrings

I'm told there is an article on the Athletic explaining how Slot avoids injuries; I'm told it is straightforward i.e. lots of yoga etc to get good amount of movement, less intense training sessions, recovery, rotating players in and out of the squad etc. Anyone read it and found any surprises?

 

[Bullet]

So back to Davies

1st goal, didn't have the technical ability on the ball in the lead up to the goal. Then did his normal thing of drifting over to left back rather than be a centre half. He still doesn't think like one and Salah picked his pocket. Ben made it easy for them.

2nd goal, a decent centre half wins that header as it comes across. Flat footed with his balance shifted the wrong way. Happens a lot with Ben.

3rd goal, shocking ball out from the back by Ben. Turnover ball, penalty. Totally culpable.

4th goal, was caught deeper than the rest if his defence but it was Danso's lack of match fitness that really cost us there. I think a fresh Danso probably gets that.

I actually don't think I'm being harsh at all. Defending is subtle and Davies just doesn't have the positional sense and reading of the game to excel in that position. He's no technician of the football either and doesn't have a great physiology for that position. No doubt, a good talker in the back line but really wanting in most attributes. I think there was a massive reason why the club were in for a Disasi loan a week or so ago.

I really hope we can get VDV back quickly to solve this problem.

You have your goals mixed up in order. The 4th goal was a free header from a corner for Van Dyke, who Davies totally failed to mark and Kinski nowhere.
Other than that I think you are being harsh, I can pick out 2 more culpable players for the other goals. Davies is not great, but you are singling him out here.

 

[Muttley]

You have your goals mixed up in order. The 4th goal was a free header from a corner for Van Dyke, who Davies totally failed to mark and Kinski nowhere.
Other than that I think you are being harsh, I can pick out 2 more culpable players for the other goals. Davies is not great, but you are singling him out here.

Ok, wrong way round. I get it.

I don't want this to be the single root cause thing again though that happens with fans. In any conceded goal, there are normally a few culpables that you can spot. You're spot on with the keeper and I also called Danso out for another one. I quite often watch a goal multiple times and look at different players each time. It identifies a lot.

However, I'm very serious when I say that Davies gets a pass from a lot of our fans when others like Bissouma don't. Sarr has been very culpable this season for leading with his heart not his head as another example. I'm really not sure why fans don't look at Ben like they do Romero, who got blasted earlier in the season for making very similar errors to what Ben is making now.

This is why we pay these managers the big bucks though. It really is up to them to iron out these wrinkles. Davies is way less comfortable than Gray in Ange's system that relies heavily on holding lines and playing the offside. He needs drilling on the training ground. Some of it you can't change though. You'll never going to teach Davies the positional sense and reading of the game that is natural, not nurtured. Just ask the King himself.

I don't know anything about Danso, but do know that we need a much lesser dependency on Davies for the rest of the season. We need VDV back the most. Romero as well. Rotation will still be needed though, and glad Spence is in that EL squad. Our defensive permutations look way better now for that competition.

 

[SteveAWOL]

I'm told there is an article on the Athletic explaining how Slot avoids injuries; I'm told it is straightforward i.e. lots of yoga etc to get good amount of movement, less intense training sessions, recovery, rotating players in and out of the squad etc. Anyone read it and found any surprises?

For what it’s worth…

Since Arne Slot’s arrival as head coach in the summer, a process called “body wake-up” has formed an important part of the players’ routine. Slot and his backroom team have introduced breathing exercises ahead of matches as well as training sessions, while ice baths have been encouraged post-exercise.

A set routine has not emerged because of the variety of kick-off times that Liverpool have faced, but the idea is to get the players lightly moving their muscles as early as possible.

One constant has been players sleeping in their own beds ahead of home games — a departure from Jurgen Klopp’s way of doing things, when it was customary for Liverpool’s squad to stay at a hotel in the city.

…
Though Slot is an obsessive and training days are now longer, they are often less intense than they were under Klopp, reducing the risk of injury, and more time is now spent in the gym on individual programmes set out by the performance and medical team.

It is now compulsory for the players to have breakfast together at Kirkby. An average day begins at 9.45am with a wellness check where the players enter information into an app that records the quality of their sleep. Prior to the start of training two hours later, sessions can involve yoga and hydrotherapy.

Training usually lasts for an hour and a half and players are on their way home by 3pm. The day before a game, Slot will hold a slightly longer meeting and at this point it becomes clear what team he has selected.

How Arne Slot prepares Liverpool: ‘Body wake-up’, ice baths and wellness checks

New Dutch coach is painstaking in his methods ahead of a matchday - and it is paying off

www.nytimes.com

 

[Bullet]

Thanks Steve. Nothing groundbreaking then.

 

[Mrs Vert]

Thanks Steve. Nothing groundbreaking then.

Maybe we should start implementing it

 

[SteveAWOL]

Thanks Steve. Nothing groundbreaking then.

Does’t appear so but this Ruben Peeters fella seems to be as trusted by Arne Slot as Perez is by Pochettino.

Perhaps if Postecoglou had managed to persuade a couple of his coaches to follow him from Celtic then they could’ve used that experience to keep injuries to a minimum rather than an entirely new coaching staff trying to emulate what occurred during his 2nd season in SPL.

How Liverpool plan to avoid another injury crisis – and why Ruben Peeters is key

Arne Slot's head of physical performance is one of his most trusted lieutenants and will oversee squad's fitness work

www.nytimes.com

If Arne Slot is the man to reignite Liverpool’s push for trophies, then his tried and tested lieutenant Ruben Peeters will be the assistant he cannot do without.

Peeters, a 32-year-old with a master’s degree in sports sciences from KU Leuven, was the first confirmed member of a new-look backroom team following the end of the Jurgen Klopp era this summer. Head coach Slot insisted on bringing Peeters, previously Feyenoord’s head of physical performance, with him to Anfield after years of success together in the Netherlands.

One of the main reasons Liverpool hired Slot, alongside his exciting playing style and ability to improve players, was his previous club Feyenoord’s almost magical powers when it came to preventing injuries. For three seasons, the Rotterdam side’s player availability levels were above 90 per cent, and Slot played a key role in that by listening carefully to the experts who made up one of the most successful medical and performance departments in world football.

One of those specialists was Peeters, a specialist at what is known as periodisation, who knew exactly how hard to push each individual at various points throughout a season without overloading their body. Every morning at Feyenoord, he provided Slot with a meticulous briefing on how long the group should train for and, like clockwork, the session would start and finish as suggested.

 

[metalgear]

Ange on the Liverpool game below. Says we are tired being out of possession. I think the boys gave up in Angeball because they were exhausted by being in possession too.

“The bizarre thing is we ended up doing more running last night than the opposition so it’s not like by playing that way you conserve energy but sometimes in your mind you think if we go and play aggressively, and press and play at a high tempo we won’t be able to last.

“We’ve outrun the opposition but that’s because we were chasing the ball most of the night and were so passive in our approach.

“It’s about trying to educate the players that even when we are asking a lot of them from a physical perspective it’s much more efficient to take on the opposition than to try and survive or save what energies you have for important moments.”

 

[Muttley]

Thanks Steve. Nothing groundbreaking then.

Nothing groundbreaking but it would be interesting to compare our own structure.

My guess that our Lodge is way more accommodating than having to stay in a city hotel. It probably feels like a home from home, and there is no checking in and out. It will be like sleeping in your own bed.

The individual plan thing is probably the most important piece. The performance and medical team seems like a very important club function nowadays.

Such a great line "ice baths have been encouraged".

 

[Bishop]

How about 'there are those who believe that a combination of factors are the reason behind what is a pretty bricky season'?!!!! Funnily enough, there's a geezer in the North West who's traveled a similar path with slightly less injuries than us but significant ones nonetheless AND got over 150 mill's worth of spending in the window only to get his arse handed to him by the woolwich wanderers. I don't disagree that we might well be witnessing someone who has reached the end of their ability to manage this club, but I disagree it is largely down to ineptitude. My read is that circumstances plus operations plus his way are all contributors...

City's situation is a little different. Their squad is/was a little over the hill and they haven't refreshed and replenished it well. Somewhat like us in 17-19. Of course they have better players in the first place so the drop off wasn't as dramatic but that's the route cause. They thinned their squad but didn't really replace the players or at least what the players who left provided. They are refilling now but it's a little too little too late in terms of this season. So yes they've been affected by injuries but it's not the injuries as a root cause. It was letting Mahrez, Sterling, De Bruyne, Rodri, Jesus, Alvarez, Cancelo, Palmer, Gundogan etc leave or get old with no real replacements.

They are not 'excuses' they are facts. The facts are that we have been without Vicario, Van de Ven, Romero, Udogie, Johnson, Solanke, Maddison, Richarlison, Odobert for most of the last two and half months. Of that list, the first four have been consistently non-available since then, the others have between them been unavailable for half.

The results were better, but the results and performances weren't good before the injury crisis.

 

[metalgear]

So, which player has become better / increased in value under Ange?

I can only think of kulu but it was by accident, having no choice but to play him through the centre.