Ok thanks.
How is what Russell Martin tried any different to what Ange is trying with us? You could argue we don't have the players to do what Ange wants too..
Can i then ask you to elaborate a bit more on the other two: in PL terms, what is Ange showing that Roberto Martiniz and Brendan Rodgers can't/couldn't?
Lets break it down. Ange has lots of tactics (if they are effective is a different question, but to pretend there are none is little disingenuous)
- Formation wise, we start in 4-3-3 out of position (we have seen some slight variations), in attack we move to 2-3-5
- How that works is the 2 FB's move into midfield, and 2 midfielders move forward into front line.
- Those two 8's are big part of system (when Maddison & Deki work)
- Basically the core of the system is creating overloads (outnumber the opposition)
- Because that is trying to get 5+ players in opposition box, to keep the gaps between lines to a minimum, we end up with a high line
- We press high to get turnovers closer to opposition goal
- We generally are a possession side (we want it, even though we can play without it and argumentatively we sometimes play better without)
- Some of the other components of the system is creating width by pinning the wingers wide.
- System relies on crosses from wide, with two core passes, 1/Strait across the box, expectation being opposite winger arrives at the far post. 2/Cut back to center of box for CF to get tap in.
What is genuinely different in Ange's system (not just a copy of Pep)
- Player freedom, lots of systems allow players to swap sides, not a lot allow a CB/FB to end up in opposition box
- The 2-3-5 congests the middle, so it tactically it is supposed to force the counter to go wide (longer route)
- High energy system, part of the "inevitability" of the system is the relentless nature, hence even games where we play well, dominate opposition, it can take until 2nd half to tire out opposition into mistakes
The system creates certain obvious vulnerabilities, so we have to look at how it's expected to deal with it
1. High line leaves space behind, two counters, first we play the offside trap, second we force (see point about congestion in middle) opponent out wide, and with pacey CB (VDV) and FBs, we assume recovery advantage.
2. Players moving into space in front of them (see VDV's runs or Udogie in box) leaves gaps behind them that would allow direct counter if possession is lost, hence other players need see that gap and cover, best examples are Maddison going into 6 role to cover Udogie gap.
3. Players can get in each others way, this creates less space to work in and creates gaps elsewhere
So to your questions of do we have the players to do it?
- VDV is a big part of that recovery system, but so are others (see next point)
- High energy requires bigger squad, more rotation, fresh legs. Having the FB's/Wingers that are leggy means chances of them helping defensively/reacting to counter is less.
- In my opinion, the squad (even fit) has a few problems, 1/Right balance in midfield (mix of 6 & 8), probably with the fact that we don't have a truly DM type 6, 2/Lack of variation in wingers, Son, Johnson, Werner are similar style (if not quality), all prefer to run into space and receive ball with them facing opposition goal. This was where Wilson was supposed to an option, I think this kills us against teams that sit back). Backups to GK, LCB/LB, RW & CF are all options
I don't see (sorry to beat dead horse) any of those managers absolutely destroying good teams on the best days, Ange's system (when it works) seems to have a higher ceiling. Not to be controversial (and no I don't want to debate it) but a certain popular ex manager would win a very high percentage of our games against bottom 8, but not as great against top 4, then when we won (yes, exceptions), would be 1-2 goal margin. Ange can beat a top side 4-0 (yes, can also lose 6-3)
Very little of that in my opinion is similar to what Martin, Martinez, Rodgers try to do. Happy to detail more if anyone thinks it's worth the conversation.
