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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

glorygloryeze said:
Eventually if this team doesn't learn to manage a game (whether that be by Postecoglou imparting some tactical knowledge/wisdom, one of the coaches doing so or one of the senior players taking a hold of the team and imparting their knowledge/experience) we will get humiliated by a sharper team than yesterday's Man Utd...
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….I honestly just do not get this. How many times does he have to prove that we can win games? How many games have we not seen off when we’re leading by 2 or more goals?

I’m convinced some people just want to be miserable.
 
Diamond Lights said:
Get the hard hats out lads and ladettes.

My thoughts after getting home last night:

1) Spence was class

2) first half and most of second Bissouma was top quality, just everywhere and played such a pivotal role, sort of form we want all the time but just
not often enough seen. Easily the best performance in a while and best player on the pitch until the half

3) United clearly targeted RB with Porro time and time again, every attack down our right

4) we were lucky to go into the lead at half time, they had some great opportunities and some cut backs to Eriksen on edge of the box we were lucky to block and survive

5) lot of Levy / Kulu songs again

6) great start to second half but oh my word… this game man. All I can say is i KNOW it's Angeball and it's intended this way, but just feels so damn needless. Insanity.

3-0 up United were broken. Head down, looking cooked. They were dead and done for, ready to go home. You could see after the 3rd the fight had entirely left their team. I don’t care what players you have in your team, if we had Micky and VDV it is still stupid because it’s unnecessary risk, continually attacking and continually asking players who are not comfortable to do something, to keep trying to do it. As I keep saying, it's not binary, i'm not saying I want Jose Ball ALL GAME. What i am saying is at 3-0 up, play it long, play more defensively and see the game out, hold possession. Ange continually brings this on himself and it’s easy to lose the fan base this way despite the win.

I dont blame Forster, he's being asked to do something he's not capable of. Now at 0-0, i get it. At 3-0, why? why do you need it? We invited United back into that game. I'm not Ange In, i'm not Ange out, i just think it's bordering on stupid now. 2 Days time we face Liverpool. At 3-0 in the 65th minute or so, we could have saved the tired legs we had, sub'd Kulu, play it long, sit back and be more compact, recycle possession and just play out the minutes boring. Instead, Solanke stayed on til he had to come off, Kulu stayed til the end, and we spent 30mins working INCREDIBLY hard both mentally and physically for a game already won.

Sorry, it's stupid, and it's actually pointless when you're in the driving seat and able to dictate the match 3 goals up.
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Such a great post. There is definitely a higher plateau for this team if the manager makes the adjustments you talk about.

It feels like Ange doesn't represent quite a few of us in this over emphasis on entertaining football at all costs.

Was I not entertained. Nope, I was angry and disappointed in him for a lot of that second half. I'm also agreeing with your point that the recklessness will probably manifest itself in the weekend game. The boys will have had more taken out of them than they should have last night.
 
Muttley said:
Such a great post. There is definitely a higher plateau for this team if the manager makes the adjustments you talk about.

It feels like Ange doesn't represent quite a few of us in this over emphasis on entertaining football at all costs.

Was I not entertained. Nope, I was angry and disappointed in him for a lot of that second half. I'm also agreeing with your point that the recklessness will probably manifest itself in the weekend game. The boys will have had more taken out of them than they should have last night.
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I was Angry with Forster TBH, the first more so with the team as Ange clear states playing it forward is the first option only so the ball should never have ended up back from a FK near the halfway line.

I was angry at Ange for Chelsea and Brighton as they were stylistic issues IMO, last night was none of that.

People said we would lose to Southampton because of the game before and we gave them a shelacking so I am willing to take each as they come
 
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Mcfee said:
Arne Slot gets it!

“If I look at Tottenham and I come from Holland, but I did watch a lot of Match of the Day, I think about [David] Ginola, Paul Gascoigne, Glenn Hoddle, and more recently [Luka] Modric, Rafael van der Vaart and Gareth Bale,” the Liverpool head coach said. “They’ve always been a certain brand of football for me and have a certain identity. I think Ange Postecoglou gives them that identity back completely. Ange is doing great work over there. I hope this is seen a bit more. I also hope, hope, hope that he wins a trophy – not the League Cup.”


“I’m completely a fan of his team for the Europa League because people always talk about trophies and that it’s so important. For his brand of football and his style, it is so much more important and if he can combine that with winning something that would be so good for football in general because people can stop talking about it’s too attacking or whatever. How on earth can you play too [much] attacking football?”


“I don’t think there are many season-ticket holders in the country that can say they watch so many great games. Maybe the ones at Liverpool!” said Slot.

“I think it is a privilege to be a season ticket holder at Tottenham at the moment because they play such a great style and it’s not like since Ange arrived they don’t win anything any more. Before that they were not a club that won many things, but they always won the sympathy of the fans in Europe, maybe also in England as well, I don’t know, because of the style of play they had. That is something you cannot underestimate.”


“If I think about Spurs, I think about the shirt, the playing style and their identity and certain players. For me, he brought that back completely. I’ve said so many positive things about Ange now that if I say another thing it will seem like I’m his agent!”
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Sounds like he could be a supporter
 
tommysvr said:
….I honestly just do not get this. How many times does he have to prove that we can win games? How many games have we not seen off when we’re leading by 2 or more goals?

I’m convinced some people just want to be miserable.
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Hmm, do you not remember Brighton, even the recent Chelsea game?
I suppose you're going to say those were just freak occasions, or and that we've lost 7 leagues purely by chance?

:rolleyes:
 
Bishop said:
What it should say to you is Manchester United are still brick. They have a new coach and a new system but they still have the same players. They are not a good side. Given all the ball and control they had after the 1st goal of theirs I'd a expect a better team (and there are many in the PL) to have done more with it.

The blunders for the goals are what they are. I'm a bit more concerned about our inability to wrestle back control of the game. We mentally collapsed offensively off the back of those two goals. As a team we no longer believed we had control or could regain poise. That might be a personnel thing and something that changes over time but it's something thats going to need to change because given the way we play theres always likely to be a proper chance for the opposition.
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They made subs to change the games
Experienced players too
We didn’t have them
There goals came from their subs
All of them
People say they has control but again when we play like that ours fans moan it’s going nowhere
Odd
It was a lack of personnel rather than quality imo
 
glorygloryeze said:
Hmm, do you not remember Brighton, even the recent Chelsea game?
I suppose you're going to say those were just freak occasions, or and that we've lost 7 leagues purely by chance?

:rolleyes:
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Do you not remember the 27 out of 54 league wins Ange has? Were they purely by chance? He's won more games than he has lost so you can't then claim he needs to learn to manage a game citing certain defeats when there are more victories you can point to. Or do you not 'manage' a game when you win? He is just lucky in those instances I guess....
 
harr1984 said:
Do you not remember the 27 out of 54 league wins Ange has? Were they purely by chance? He's won more games than he has lost so you can't then claim he needs to learn to manage a game citing certain defeats when there are more victories you can point to. Or do you not 'manage' a game when you win? He is just lucky in those instances I guess....
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Yeah, let's just forget how we can improve as a team, let's just forget the downward/mid-table form for a year now and let's just bury our heads in the sands that we are seeing the same frailties again and again.
Because, of course, we can't play the mighty Chelsea or Brighton every week eh? We'll just play Crystal Palace or Ipswich instead, we should be able to handle that...and being 2 or 3 goals up and being able to manage our energy etc because we've got an easy game on Sunday vs Liverpool...


:rolleyes:
 
Bedfordspurs said:
They made subs to change the games
Experienced players too
We didn’t have them
There goals came from their subs
All of them
People say they has control but again when we play like that ours fans moan it’s going nowhere
Odd
It was a lack of personnel rather than quality imo
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I literally said in the match thread before they had scored that it was a very Spurs-esque performance from them so at least we saw that similarly. :tearsofjoy:

I would like to have seen us re-gather ourselves and start passing the ball around well again but we just collapsed. I hear that they made changes and maybe fresh legs helped them to an extent but it wasn't just a case of them suddenly upping their game, we contributed by no longer believing and playing fearfully.

As I say the goals are what they are, goals happen but we need to be able to react better to a team getting a 2nd wind. For a possession side we too often have long spells where we just can't keep the ball. For me that's personnel related, quality and numbers.
 
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tommysvr said:
4-3, cracking game, loads of entertainment and 20 mins of stress, into a semi final, all of a sudden it's only 2 losses in our last 8 games...

It'll never be good enough for some.
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TBH I get there are concerns on the style, but I also think people are performing alot of confirmation bias with alot of stuff thats not there at times, but in fairness is there at others.

Like most football views here or on twitter it seems there is little middle ground or nuance on views, very much all or nothing it seems.
 
Grays_1890 said:
TBH I get there are concerns on the style, but I also think people are performing alot of confirmation bias with alot of stuff thats not there at times, but in fairness is there at others.

Like most football views here or on twitter it seems there is little middle ground or nuance on views, very much all or nothing it seems.
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Disagree strongly.
There has been a lot of nuance on here, or at least many are trying to be balanced and nuanced on the views of how we tend to play under Ange. It's been a year and a half into Ange's tenure and it's fair that people are reviewing patterns that are being seen over a long timeframe...
 
glorygloryeze said:
Disagree strongly.
There has been a lot of nuance on here, or at least many are trying to be balanced and nuanced on the views of how we tend to play under Ange. It's been a year and a half into Ange's tenure and it's fair that people are reviewing patterns that are being seen over a long timeframe...
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Of course, there are some, not many though are overly reflective and show middle ground in many of their arguments IMO
 
Grays_1890 said:
TBH I get there are concerns on the style, but I also think people are performing alot of confirmation bias with alot of stuff thats not there at times, but in fairness is there at others.

Like most football views here or on twitter it seems there is little middle ground or nuance on views, very much all or nothing it seems.
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The way I look at football I'm not going to only see positives in a win and I'm not going to only see negatives in a loss. There are usually a mixture of both in either result.

We need to be just as critical of the negatives in a positive result as we are in a negative one. The result itself doesn't always tell the entire story and the points of the match can give clues to fixing issues before they become critical problems.

That's what I see on here today mainly, people looking at some of the issues and discussing how we can better handle said situations. Some are entirely speaking preventively, some are speaking in terms of how we can react once things start to go wrong.
 
Bishop said:
The way I look at football I'm not going to only see positives in a win and I'm not going to only see negatives in a loss. There are usually a mixture of both in either result.

We need to be just as critical of the negatives in a positive result as we are in a negative one. The result itself doesn't always tell the entire story and the points of the match can give clues to fixing issues before they become critical problems.

That's what I see on here today mainly, people looking at some of the issues and discussing how we can better handle said situations. Some are entirely speaking preventively, some are speaking in terms of how we can react once things start to go wrong.
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Thank you
 
Bishop said:
The way I look at football I'm not going to only see positives in a win and I'm not going to only see negatives in a loss. There are usually a mixture of both in either result.

We need to be just as critical of the negatives in a positive result as we are in a negative one. The result itself doesn't always tell the entire story and the points of the match can give clues to fixing issues before they become critical problems.

That's what I see on here today mainly, people looking at some of the issues and discussing how we can better handle said situations. Some are entirely speaking preventively, some are speaking in terms of how we can react once things start to go wrong.
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To some extent I agree, but there are people who are wanting to attribute every loss or in last nights case mistakes onto the manager and somehow fit them into a trend to therefore over play the trend when infact teams will score goals, people will make mistakes and not everything thats negative in that respect sit with the manager, like not everything that works well sits with him either.
 
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