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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

I’m not Ange out, but can someone please explain why he’s been here 18 months and we’re still so easy to play against? You can’t always play well so the defensive foundations need to be there so you can nick a 1-0. The first thing Arry did was sort out the defence and get us looking solid. It appears from the outside that defending and practicing set pieces clearly aren’t a priority. You only have to look at at our friends down the road to see how important set pieces are.
 
He. Is not. The problem.

I've said it from the start, I'll say it until he is inevitably sacked when the heat starts being turned on Levy, because that's how this always ends.

He's a thoroughly mediocre journeyman who will keep us roughly in upper mid-table. Said that since roughly March, and nothing has changed in the 9 months to dissuade me from this opinion.

Right now he's suffering from injuries and an inability/unwillingness to rotate, which means his ultra high octane pressing (most in the league by some distance) isn't working. Squad will heal, he will scrape some marginally better results, win nothing, finish 8th-9th or so, life goes on. This is who we are, and have been for 25 years.

Sacking him does not fix what is fundamentally broken at this club - that lies at the top of the deed of ownership. And until that changes, playing at this merry-go-round of sacking the coach only to find another one who will inevitably fail, too, is an absolute fool's game. If you think sacking him changes anything, I'm sorry to say you're being had by a man who has used this strategy to stave off criticism of himself, his boss and his miserable ways for 25 grinding years.

I can see how it ends. We sack him, we appoint Andoni Iraola or someone, they get off to a promising start, and then we see the life sucked from them as they are denied their top transfer targets, given cheapo kids, randos and players on low wages (gotta keep that wage-to-revenue ratio the lowest in the league, after all!), and eventually they falter and get their pink slip too.

For what it's worth, despite my criticisms of him - I'm Ange in. Because this charade is tiresome to me, and if we are doomed to labour under these owners, we might as well spite them by keeping the man they would love an excuse to sack.
 
NYSpur said:
I agree. The huge number games that we have conceded the first goal is unacceptable if you have aspirations in this league. We are just so vulnerable playing the way we do. We can point to promising stats and good performances, but when you are 11 games in and have lost to 3 of the bottom 6, two of whom had not won to that point, you should be concerned. The blueprint to beat us is well known now and our individual defenders have been unable to meet the standards that the system requires. Anything below perfection is likely to be punished because we don’t have the numbers back.

Last year, during our first 10 games, it was widely acknowledged that Vicario had played a big part in the run we had. But that was not sustainable and so it has proved. I’d really like to think otherwise but we just seem to be on a path that doesn’t lead to the end result we all want.
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Sad to say that a few games on and the issues remain and are even more stark due to the injuries. I just feel that any dip in performance is not permitted by the system Ange employs. Today a 5-0 drubbing would not have been unreasonable because we always allow good chances. When we are fit and firing with our best players on form, the danger of that style of play is masked and can be overcome. But when, as now, we are playing second or third choice and we are tired, we are poor. It just does not feel sustainable to me in the absence of a pool of players vastly superior to our rivals. Is the problem for Ange that he is never going to get that in the Premier League and that any dip in form will be punished whoever we play? I can't see how he gets enough time for our younger players to mature.

Worrying times
 
DubaiSpur said:
He. Is not. The problem.

I've said it from the start, I'll say it until he is inevitably sacked when the heat starts being turned on Levy, because that's how this always ends.

He's a thoroughly mediocre journeyman who will keep us roughly in upper mid-table. Said that since roughly March, and nothing has changed in the 9 months to dissuade me from this opinion.

Right now he's suffering from injuries and an inability/unwillingness to rotate, which means his ultra high octane pressing (most in the league by some distance) isn't working. Squad will heal, he will scrape some marginally better results, win nothing, finish 8th-9th or so, life goes on. This is who we are, and have been for 25 years.

Sacking him does not fix what is fundamentally broken at this club - that lies at the top of the deed of ownership. And until that changes, playing at this merry-go-round of sacking the coach only to find another one who will inevitably fail, too, is an absolute fool's game. If you think sacking him changes anything, I'm sorry to say you're being had by a man who has used this strategy to stave off criticism of himself, his boss and his miserable ways for 25 grinding years.

I can see how it ends. We sack him, we appoint Andoni Iraola or someone, they get off to a promising start, and then we see the life sucked from them as they are denied their top transfer targets, given cheapo kids, randos and players on low wages (gotta keep that wage-to-revenue ratio the lowest in the league, after all!), and eventually they falter and get their pink slip too.

For what it's worth, despite my criticisms of him - I'm Ange in. Because this charade is tiresome to me, and if we are doomed to labour under these owners, we might as well spite them by keeping the man they would love an excuse to sack.
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if ange is not the problem, then mourinho and conte weren't too.

we have the right recruitment team now and unless levy is willing to increase budgets to afford bench close to the quality of the first eleven, we need another coach. i.e. not investing in young talents but buying proven players.

otherwise angeball should be reserved for clubs who can afford it. like chelsea. so maybe - levy out?
 
DubaiSpur said:
He. Is not. The problem.

I've said it from the start, I'll say it until he is inevitably sacked when the heat starts being turned on Levy, because that's how this always ends.

He's a thoroughly mediocre journeyman who will keep us roughly in upper mid-table. Said that since roughly March, and nothing has changed in the 9 months to dissuade me from this opinion.

Right now he's suffering from injuries and an inability/unwillingness to rotate, which means his ultra high octane pressing (most in the league by some distance) isn't working. Squad will heal, he will scrape some marginally better results, win nothing, finish 8th-9th or so, life goes on. This is who we are, and have been for 25 years.

Sacking him does not fix what is fundamentally broken at this club - that lies at the top of the deed of ownership. And until that changes, playing at this merry-go-round of sacking the coach only to find another one who will inevitably fail, too, is an absolute fool's game. If you think sacking him changes anything, I'm sorry to say you're being had by a man who has used this strategy to stave off criticism of himself, his boss and his miserable ways for 25 grinding years.

I can see how it ends. We sack him, we appoint Andoni Iraola or someone, they get off to a promising start, and then we see the life sucked from them as they are denied their top transfer targets, given cheapo kids, randos and players on low wages (gotta keep that wage-to-revenue ratio the lowest in the league, after all!), and eventually they falter and get their pink slip too.

For what it's worth, despite my criticisms of him - I'm Ange in. Because this charade is tiresome to me, and if we are doomed to labour under these owners, we might as well spite them by keeping the man they would love an excuse to sack.
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The mistake the club has made is entrusting this phase of our rebuild to someone who is essentially a novice at this level of the game - it was a gamble that hasn't (as of yet) paid off. As I said earlier whatever anyone thinks of our players we are not mid table on paper, even if we were there are plenty of teams at that level that manage to turn up and play to a game plan week in week out but then ultimately suffer due to a lack of quality- that's not us, today was a group of players who did not have one clue what they were supposed to be doing. That is on one man
 
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metalgear said:
if ange is not the problem, then mourinho and conte weren't too.

we have the right recruitment team now and unless levy is willing to increase budgets to afford bench close to the quality of the first eleven, we need another coach. i.e. not investing in young talents but buying proven players.

otherwise angeball should be reserved for clubs who can afford it. like chelsea. so maybe - levy out?
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Conte wasn't the problem either. Even in his parting rant that people hated - he gave us some cold hard truths that still, to this day, are as true as the day he said them.

"20 years here the owners and they win nothing. Why?"

Mourinho, eh.

As for the recruitment team, I am not convinced we do have the right recruitment team at all. This Lange character did not come with a good CV from Villa - neither did that Aussie rando we got off some club out there, Munn. The last good head of recruitment we had was Paratici - before him, probably Michael Edwards in the early 2010s.

As for Levy Out...well, you know my thoughts on that mate. ;)
 
If we get battered by Chelsea at the weekend then I cant see how Ange will be able to turn it around.

I am open minded now, sitting on the fence. I’m fed up with losing and performing under par but equally I think when we do tick, we are great to watch but that’s far too infrequently right now.
 
billyiddo said:
The mistake the club has made is entrusting this phase of our rebuild to someone who is essentially a novice at this level of the game - it was a gamble that hasn't (as of yet) paid off. As I said earlier whatever anyone thinks of our players we are not mid table on paper, even if we were there are plenty of teams at that level that manage to turn up and play to a game plan week in week out but then ultimately suffer due to a lack of quality- that's not us, today was a group of players who did not have one clue what they were supposed to be doing. That is on one man
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This idea that we're not mid-table on paper baffles me. What about our squad says anything other than mid-table?

Here's our squad and where they came from -

- Fraser Forster - cheapo freebie, came from..Southampton I think?
- Archie Gray - kid from Championship
- Radu Dragusin - kid from Genoa
- Ben Davies - veteran from Swansea
- Destiny Udogie - kid from Udinese
- Yves Bissouma - came from Brighton
- Pape Sarr - kid from Metz
- James Maddison - came from relegated Leicester
- Brennan Johnson - kid from Forest
- Deki - came from Juve
- Solanke - came from Bournemouth

If you look at the origins of those players, I would wager almost all of them bar Deki came from mid-table or lower mid-table sides. This doesn't mean they're mid-table level forever, but there is a reason they were at those sides when we picked them up, and so far most have not shown anything significantly better than that.

This is what Postecoglou has to work with. It might be his own choice, it might not, but it's hard to put that squad in the same league as any of the top six or so. Even Brighton might have a better squad than us, and Villa and Saudi Sportswashing Machine perhaps on par.
 
DubaiSpur said:
This idea that we're not mid-table on paper baffles me. What about our squad says anything other than mid-table?

Here's our squad and where they came from -

- Fraser Forster - cheapo freebie, came from..Southampton I think?
- Archie Gray - kid from Championship
- Radu Dragusin - kid from Genoa
- Ben Davies - veteran from Swansea
- Destiny Udogie - kid from Udinese
- Yves Bissouma - came from Brighton
- Pape Sarr - kid from Metz
- James Maddison - came from relegated Leicester
- Brennan Johnson - kid from Forest
- Deki - came from Juve
- Solanke - came from Bournemouth

If you look at the origins of those players, I would wager almost all of them bar Deki came from mid-table or lower mid-table sides. This doesn't mean they're mid-table level forever, but there is a reason they were at those sides when we picked them up, and so far most have not shown anything significantly better than that.

This is what Postecoglou has to work with. It might be his own choice, it might not, but it's hard to put that squad in the same league as any of the top six or so. Even Brighton might have a better squad than us, and Villa and Saudi Sportswashing Machine perhaps on par.
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You could do a similar level of appraisal for a cherry-picked list of players from most other teams and end up with the same outlook. Most transfers are from lesser teams to bigger teams - your post means nothing.

Go back to our squad at the start of 14/15 for example...
 
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