Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

[Baleforce]

Precisely my point, Arse thought Arteta was not progressing things and tried to get rid of him.
Just like you and RobSpur are advocating for Ange.
How foolish the Gooner actions and thoughts were.

maybe, but maybe the guy they hired instead won them two league titles, it'll never be known

there is always a better, and a worse, alternate reality

 

[Robspur12]

Arsenal sacked a manager who won a trophy lots of us consider beneath us. He's now doing rather well at a "smaller" club. They hired someone with no management experience and gave him time, debate is open as to whether that was a choice or circumstance, but they have.

Slot won a league that isn't much more competitive than the Scottish or Japanese leagues. Liverpool don't seem to worried.

We hired two "proven winners". Took us backwards.

Let's give the guy some time, none of us know how it will turn out, past performance isn't always a good indicator of the future.

I don't think it's worth comparing our situation to other clubs there are too many variables. Things that may have worked for them will not necessarily translate as neatly here.

The only thing that matters is what he does here between now and Christmas. He needs to earn the extra time after Christmas not just be given it. I have not advocated to sack him but to give him more time to show we can challenge for top 4 under him. As I said this team is far from the finished article but we saw a team reach the champions league final and finish top 4 with Winks Sissoko, Dele and Lucas Moura in midfield. We've got better than that now. He needs to be doing better.

 

[Mikey10]

there is always a worse, alternate reality

Unless you live in Clacton.

 

[tommysvr]

we saw a team reach the champions league final and finish top 4 with Winks Sissoko, Dele and Lucas Moura in midfield. We've got better than that now. He needs to be doing better.

And how many years had the manager of that team been at the club?

 

[braineclipse]

Rewatch this fixture from 12 months ago, almost to the day (51 weeks ago). We were tonnes better then.

We've barely had one decent performance since that Chelsea game.

Then compare to the years before that... Hanging on, trying to scrape something from the big games. Sure, sometimes managing to do just that, but where did that bring us.

Imo we're still much better than we were before he took over. Yes there are issues to be worked on, of course. But that's normal.

It was a close game that could have gone either way. Against a team expecting to challenge for the title.

As Ange said we need to improve in the final third. Particularly when teams sit back or are forced back. Creating good chances in those situations is one of the most difficult things to do in football, it's normal that it takes time.

 

[braineclipse]

I don't understand why we're obsessed with trying to play through the press from the back when we always wait for the opposition to get back into position anyway.

To the extent that's the case I'm confident it's not part of the plan.

I think we look to be direct in most of those situations. Certainly have had good moves like that in the games so far this season. More a problem with the execution than the plan.

 

[braineclipse]

You’ve been here 15 fudging months mate, if there is a bigger picture it’s about time it showed itself.

If the opposition can have an uncontested header 5 yards out you have fudged it.

A defender (or more as Ange said) switching off for a corner is a thing that sometimes happens.

Aren't we seeing the bigger picture? We went toe to toe with one of the best teams in the league. Forced them into sitting back, hanging on for periods of the game. Even time wasting at 0-0.

We're mostly pressing well. We defended well almost throughout the entire game. So much of the narrative in recent weeks has been about how open we are to counter attacks, and we weren't really. We play out through a high press well.

We're coming short on chance creation and keeping our focus at the back. Very important stuff of course, but also difficult stuff. If we get that right along with the stuff we already are getting right everything points towards us being a fantastic team imo.

Is Ange capable of getting better chance creation and defensive focus out of this group? We'll see. I think so. We obviously looked to improve particularly the chance creation in the transfer market by signing Solanke, Odobert and Bergvall. Let's see what they can do about that, let's see what the players, Ange and the coaches can do about that.

 

[Kandi1977]

What about a LB to give Udogie some rotation/rest? What about a winger who brings some goals? What about a proper DM?
And if Vicario gets injured who plays the passing out the back in a similar way as a GK?

Reguilon?
He's not bad. Better than the starter at most clubs. He's here by accident rather than by design, but he's here nonetheless.

 

[thfcsteff]

A defender (or more as Ange said) switching off for a corner is a thing that sometimes happens.

Aren't we seeing the bigger picture? We went toe to toe with one of the best teams in the league. Forced them into sitting back, hanging on for periods of the game. Even time wasting at 0-0.

We're mostly pressing well. We defended well almost throughout the entire game. So much of the narrative in recent weeks has been about how open we are to counter attacks, and we weren't really. We play out through a high press well.

We're coming short on chance creation and keeping our focus at the back. Very important stuff of course, but also difficult stuff. If we get that right along with the stuff we already are getting right everything points towards us being a fantastic team imo.

Is Ange capable of getting better chance creation and defensive focus out of this group? We'll see. I think so. We obviously looked to improve particularly the chance creation in the transfer market by signing Solanke, Odobert and Bergvall. Let's see what they can do about that, let's see what the players, Ange and the coaches can do about that.

The single biggest concern I have is that some of our bigger players are not displaying the personality, leadership, belief and conviction in Ange's style of football to have a conclusive effect. The game on Sunday was there to be won; we simply stopped believing in the details of our football which would've helped us win it. IMO. Maddison has to do better, so does Bentancur, so does Sonny if I'm being honest, and so does Christian. These are BIG players, important players, and they have to lead.

 

[Baleforce]

A defender (or more as Ange said) switching off for a corner is a thing that sometimes happens.

Aren't we seeing the bigger picture? We went toe to toe with one of the best teams in the league. Forced them into sitting back, hanging on for periods of the game. Even time wasting at 0-0.

We're mostly pressing well. We defended well almost throughout the entire game. So much of the narrative in recent weeks has been about how open we are to counter attacks, and we weren't really. We play out through a high press well.

We're coming short on chance creation and keeping our focus at the back. Very important stuff of course, but also difficult stuff. If we get that right along with the stuff we already are getting right everything points towards us being a fantastic team imo.

Is Ange capable of getting better chance creation and defensive focus out of this group? We'll see. I think so. We obviously looked to improve particularly the chance creation in the transfer market by signing Solanke, Odobert and Bergvall. Let's see what they can do about that, let's see what the players, Ange and the coaches can do about that.

That’s not my read on the game. I thought they had an easy afternoon and burned very little energy, when we had the ball they sat in and had a rest waiting for us to cough it up.

 

[braineclipse]

The single biggest concern I have is that some of our bigger players are not displaying the personality, leadership, belief and conviction in Ange's style of football to have a conclusive effect. The game on Sunday was there to be won; we simply stopped believing in the details of our football which would've helped us win it. IMO. Maddison has to do better, so does Bentancur, so does Sonny if I'm being honest, and so does Christian. These are BIG players, important players, and they have to lead.

For me Romero showed that a lot apart from the situation with the goal of course.

Sonny isn't that kind of leader imo. Maddison has the potential to be and imo tried, so does Bentancur perhaps.

Kulusevski showed a bit of that imo.

The player we really could do with stepping up into a role like that is Bissouma. But I'm not holding my breath for that one.

They forced us wide, but also defended the wide areas well leaving Son and Johnson mostly ineffective. I can understand Ange not starting Odobert for this one, but we really missed his quality on the ball in tight areas.

I can also get not chucking Gray on in the DM role even as a sub, but Sarr there really didn't work on the ball. Both Gray and Bergvall imo does a bit of what you seem to be asking for, take responsibility on the ball to make something happen.

 

[Mikey10]

And how many years had the manager of that team been at the club?

That team was actually on the wane by that point; they’d already had years of being a real force.

We went toe to toe with one of the best teams in the league. Forced them into sitting back, hanging on for periods of the game. Even time wasting at 0-0.

They came with a game plan, which they executed perfectly. They were happy to let us have the ball in most areas of the pitch because they were confident we wouldn’t do much with it. I didn’t see them ‘hanging on’ at any stage.

Reguilon?
He's not bad. Better than the starter at most clubs.

And yet no club he went out on loan to wanted to keep him, and nobody else wanted to buy him.

 

[braineclipse]

That’s not my read on the game. I thought they had an easy afternoon and burned very little energy, when we had the ball they sat in and had a rest waiting for us to cough it up.

Yeah, we saw the game very differently.

For sure they defended really well, as should be expected of them. But they worked really hard for that. Were forced into playing long balls quite a bit. Wasted time rather than going for a goal at 0-0. For sure tired for all the effort they had to put into that defending.

We needed a moment. Either them making a mistake or a moment of brilliance from one of ours. That didn't come for us, but came for them.

We've seen what easy games for them have looked like against us in the past. For me this was not one of them.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

For me Romero showed that a lot apart from the situation with the goal of course.

Sonny isn't that kind of leader imo. Maddison has the potential to be and imo tried, so does Bentancur perhaps.

Kulusevski showed a bit of that imo.

The player we really could do with stepping up into a role like that is Bissouma. But I'm not holding my breath for that one.

They forced us wide, but also defended the wide areas well leaving Son and Johnson mostly ineffective. I can understand Ange not starting Odobert for this one, but we really missed his quality on the ball in tight areas.

I can also get not chucking Gray on in the DM role even as a sub, but Sarr there really didn't work on the ball. Both Gray and Bergvall imo does a bit of what you seem to be asking for, take responsibility on the ball to make something happen.

They left Johnson with room. We didn’t use it/him. That was poor
Even if (as alluded to by some football geeks) they were happy to leave Brennan free, the fact we didn’t hit one quick pass down his side until the 37th minute says we have an issue. The starts with the right side instigator of the attack which is invariably Romero.
Gonna be interesting to see son this weekend to see if he can’t play as a winger or it was just a tired Sonny. I’m still worried that he is passing backwards more than forwards (not even attempting that pass) and he left quite a few passes short.
Maddison should be banned from taking more than 2 touches. That would speed his game up and help the team a lot

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That team was actually on the wane by that point; they’d already had years of being a real force.

They came with a game plan, which they executed perfectly. They were happy to let us have the ball in most areas of the pitch because they were confident we wouldn’t do much with it. I didn’t see them ‘hanging on’ at any stage.

And yet no club he went out on loan to wanted to keep him, and nobody else wanted to buy him.

If their game plan was to hope they finally get one decent corner it’s a weak plan. It’s actually one way of playing football and exactly want Ange gets panned for
I don’t think their plan was to be on the back foot as much, but we do know their comfortable with it because they have had four years of practicing it.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yeah, we saw the game very differently.

For sure they defended really well, as should be expected of them. But they worked really hard for that. Were forced into playing long balls quite a bit. Wasted time rather than going for a goal at 0-0. For sure tired for all the effort they had to put into that defending.

We needed a moment. Either them making a mistake or a moment of brilliance from one of ours. That didn't come for us, but came for them.

We've seen what easy games for them have looked like against us in the past. For me this was not one of them.

You can’t get moments if you don’t take risks. You don’t take risks of your passive. We were passive even if we did the basics quite well

 

[braineclipse]

They left Johnson with room. We didn’t use it/him. That was poor
Even if (as alluded to by some football geeks) they were happy to leave Brennan free, the fact we didn’t hit one quick pass down his side until the 37th minute says we have an issue. The starts with the right side instigator of the attack which is invariably Romero.
Gonna be interesting to see son this weekend to see if he can’t play as a winger or it was just a tired Sonny. I’m still worried that he is passing backwards more than forwards (not even attempting that pass) and he left quite a few passes short.
Maddison should be banned from taking more than 2 touches. That would speed his game up and help the team a lot

The way I saw it they mostly left Johnson with the kind of room that he's not very good at exploiting. If there were moments there to play him in behind we didn't take that's obviously not good.

Romero had several really good moves start with him that we failed to do something really useful with.

 

[tommysvr]

That team was actually on the wane by that point; they’d already had years of being a real force.

They came with a game plan, which they executed perfectly. They were happy to let us have the ball in most areas of the pitch because they were confident we wouldn’t do much with it. I didn’t see them ‘hanging on’ at any stage.

The point is we weren't a "real force" 15 months into Poch's reign.

Their game plan was executed perfectly because they scored the one goal. One goal is all that decided it, and Spurs very much could have got that one goal. If we get that one goal, the narrative flips and suddenly all is rosey for us and Arsenal are 5 points off City, possible 8 after next weekend and their season is all but over.

I don't remember us "hanging on" either.

 

[glasgowspur]

I don't think it's worth comparing our situation to other clubs there are too many variables. Things that may have worked for them will not necessarily translate as neatly here.

The only thing that matters is what he does here between now and Christmas. He needs to earn the extra time after Christmas not just be given it. I have not advocated to sack him but to give him more time to show we can challenge for top 4 under him. As I said this team is far from the finished article but we saw a team reach the champions league final and finish top 4 with Winks Sissoko, Dele and Lucas Moura in midfield. We've got better than that now. He needs to be doing better.

I have my doubts and reservations about ange, have done since he was appointed. I've set my expectations accordingly.
Much like Jose and possibly conte I think he has hugely underestimated the job he has to turn us around. But he's learning and unlike the other two he's not the type to walk away, he will take responsibility, that's something quite a few of the players need to do.

The only way we are going to progress from here as a club is by digging in, sticking with a manager over the players and grinding it out.
This is the hardest league in the world, it's the most competitive and we have at least two financially doped clubs to compete with, we're not challenging by changing managers every 15-18 months.

 

[braineclipse]

You can’t get moments if you don’t take risks. You don’t take risks of your passive. We were passive even if we did the basics quite well

Isn't that essentially what Ange is pointing to as well with his belief comment?

Again I think part of the issue is having two wide players needing to be set up in rather predictable ways to be effective.

I thought Odobert played with the belief/risk/active approach when he came on. Werner too. I can understand this one being a bit too early for Odobert to start, but the Son and Johnson as wingers combination really doesn't fill me with joy when teams sit or are forced back and congest the middle.