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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

Bedfordspurs said:
City didn’t panic when pep didn’t win the league in his first season
They kept him
Arsenal didnt bin arteta when he had his many blips
They backed him and trusted the process
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He won it in year two.

Arteta has been a massive success for arsenal, got em back in the CL, thats all that matters.

Had we not shat ourselves spectacularly last season, Ange would be sitting more comfortably too.
 
Baleforce said:
He won it in year two.

Arteta has been a massive success for arsenal, got em back in the CL, thats all that matters.

Had we not shat ourselves spectacularly last season, Ange would be sitting more comfortably too.
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But he didn’t after year one and 4 games
So should he have been sacked?
How long did it take Arteta to get them back in CL?
 
Yiddo said:
Welcome to Tottenham, the graveyard for managers who win things.
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He's not really won anything though has he.

Had he won the CL a couple of times with clubs of similar stature, or won the Europa league with clubs around our size, give them a bit longer by all means. But winning the dog and duck league when the duck had been thrown out doesn't have the same cache.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
But he didn’t after year one and 4 games
So should he have been sacked?
How long did it take Arteta to get them back in CL?
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There was massive signs of progress in City, due to the zillions they spent.

Arsenal were much farther back than we were when the manager change was made. Plus, they tried to get rid of him, they begged other managers to take the job so they could fire him.
 
Baleforce said:
There was massive signs of progress in City, due to the zillions they spent.

Arsenal were much farther back than we were when the manager change was made. Plus, they tried to get rid of him, they begged other managers to take the job so they could fire him.
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Arsenal were much further back?
Had they sold their best player then?
They were in Europe when he took over and were in the Europa final the summer before. Your recreating the narrative to suit your argument
They also broke their transfer record that summer having finished 5th… 3 places higher than what we were when Ange took over
These are cold hold facts
Not opinions
 
Robspur12 said:
I don't think we should give Ange until the end of the season. If our performances don't improve and we are off the pace for 4th, he should be gone by Christmas. Couldn't stomach another season of self inflicted failure. This squad is not perfect but it's good enough for at least a top 4 challenge with the right coach.
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He most definitely should get the season. It's been discussed many times about how the best managers have needed seasons to really hit their mark, with less inspiring statistics than Ange has at this stage. And we have have been through a stupid amount of managers in the last 20 plus years - we are no better than Chelsea in that respect except without the trophies.

About time we and by we I mean both the board and the fans gave a manager an opportunity to breathe and ride out the inevitable bumps. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't but I don't see a magic bullet out there that doesn't come with their own problems and won't get exposed in the same way every other manager does here....
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Arsenal were much further back?
Had they sold their best player then?
They were in Europe when he took over and were in the Europa final the summer before. Your recreating the narrative to suit your argument
They also broke their transfer record that summer having finished 5th… 3 places higher than what we were when Ange took over
These are cold hold facts
Not opinions
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I think they were, they'd become a wildly inconsistent team imo, regularly getting dingdonged by Brighton et al.

I think Ange came into a better setup than Arteta did, solid defence, reliable midfield, two really good proven PL forwards in Son and Richarlison, not to mention a manageable wage bill.

Artetea inherited a mess in 2019 that finished 8th, his forward line was Pepe, Lacazette and Aubameyang, who's ineffectiveness was only eclipsed by their unprofessionalism, in a squad of players where all of them were paid 250k a week because of their crazy holocratic system.

I don't particularly rate Arteta, and us and Chelsea repeatedly shooting ourselves in the foot has helped, but he got them back into the CL, from a position where they could easily have disappeared into mid table obscurity, again.
 
Baleforce said:
I think they were, they'd become a wildly inconsistent team imo, regularly getting dingdonged by Brighton et al.

I think Ange came into a better setup than Arteta did, solid defence, reliable midfield, two really good proven PL forwards in Son and Richarlison, not to mention a manageable wage bill.

Artetea inherited a mess in 2019 that finished 8th, his forward line was Pepe, Lacazette and Aubameyang, who's ineffectiveness was only eclipsed by their unprofessionalism, in a squad of players where all of them were paid 250k a week because of their crazy holocratic system.

I don't particularly rate Arteta, and us and Chelsea repeatedly shooting ourselves in the foot has helped, but he got them back into the CL, from a position where they could easily have disappeared into mid table obscurity, again.
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You are remembering the wrong team
Emery’s team didn’t lose to Brighton, ever
It was when he was sacked they did
Arteta didn’t inherit a mess, he inherited a club that had no patience and sacked a guy who previously had jus5 lost out to us for a CL place and were in a European final
Ange came in after we sold the clubs record striker and we had none 8m the squad
We shunted son and Richarlson there who combined had played about 100 games as CF and never in a footballing side that kept the ball
and don’t forget in Artetas watch he extended Aubemeyangs contract… then got rid
Because he didn’t want him
He has had time to build his team
Teams with money don’t go into mid table
There is no fear left in this league now
 
Bedfordspurs said:
You are remembering the wrong team
Emery’s team didn’t lose to Brighton, ever
It was when he was sacked they did
Arteta didn’t inherit a mess, he inherited a club that had no patience and sacked a guy who previously had jus5 lost out to us for a CL place and were in a European final
Ange came in after we sold the clubs record striker and we had none 8m the squad
We shunted son and Richarlson there who combined had played about 100 games as CF and never in a footballing side that kept the ball
and don’t forget in Artetas watch he extended Aubemeyangs contract… then got rid
Because he didn’t want him
He has had time to build his team
Teams with money don’t go into mid table
There is no fear left in this league now
Click to expand...

We sold Kane after Ange took over, he had a voice in that discussion.

Really? I'm terrified by everyone with the way we defend.

My point is, there is more to it than time, we could have given Sherwood time, if he was in charge now we'd likely be in league 2. Giving the wrong manager time can cause real long term damage.
 
Baleforce said:
Plus, they tried to get rid of him, they begged other managers to take the job so they could fire him.
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Precisely my point, Arse thought Arteta was not progressing things and tried to get rid of him.
Just like you and RobSpur are advocating for Ange.
How foolish the Gooner actions and thoughts were.
 
Arsenal sacked a manager who won a trophy lots of us consider beneath us. He's now doing rather well at a "smaller" club. They hired someone with no management experience and gave him time, debate is open as to whether that was a choice or circumstance, but they have.

Slot won a league that isn't much more competitive than the Scottish or Japanese leagues. Liverpool don't seem to worried.

We hired two "proven winners". Took us backwards.

Let's give the guy some time, none of us know how it will turn out, past performance isn't always a good indicator of the future.
 
Bullet said:
As usual @milo made various good points in the podcast:

When managing a project, imagine a graph with 2 lines.
The first line is the straight diagonal x=y line.
The second line is a curved parabola that starts off close to the x-axis and curves sharply upwards towards the end.

The point being, people want to see linear progress of x=y.
In reality you buy youth and change various things and train certain situations and there is very little progress and the natives get restless... and just when the gap between these 2 lines is at its greatest and people feel there is no hope of progress, suddenly things start to pick up and you hit the steep progress part of the curve.

Be patient.





Having said that, I would very much like to see Udogie told to hang back alongside our DM i.e. there is no point in him bombing on, he just gets in the way of Son/Maddison and attracts more bodies to that zone. And we can utilise his pace and aggressiveness in breaking up any transition against us.
Porro is fine, he can shoot and he can cross, but Udogie can do neither of these.
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I’m not sure we need graphs. We’ve all watched the games.
 
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