Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

[Bedfordspurs]

Sample size, etc etc

But sample size doesn’t count does it
I mean our fans think 3 games is enough to judge…
Just saying

 

[glorygloryeze]

That was Arteta's first full season (I think the season before he came in with about a third of the season gone).

And tbf to Arteta he showed a lot of signs of improvement as that season went on, and gained him credit after the very bumpy start of the following season when fans returned to the stands. Fair point raised though that things might have gone very differently for him in that first season if fans were in attendance

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That was Arteta's first full season (I think the season before he came in with about a third of the season gone).

He did
But if you don’t count that season he hasn’t won anything
He took over when they were in the Europe too
The reason I flag It up is they didn’t back emery like they backed Arteta and personally I think he could have done as well there if they had backed him
Arteta has been well and truly backed and has made them better results wise. He now has to deliver

 

[glorygloryeze]

But sample size doesn’t count does it
I mean our fans think 3 games is enough to judge…
Just saying

The point is that fans who are judging are doing so using far more than 3 games (i'm sure you deep down know that too... )

 

[Bedfordspurs]

And tbf to Arteta he showed a lot of signs of improvement as that season went on, and gained him credit after the very bumpy start of the following season when fans returned to the stands. Fair point raised though that things might have gone very differently for him in that first season if fans were in attendance

What season are you referring too?

Their fans wanted him gone for his first two years there

Arsenal: 5 reasons Mikel Arteta should not be sacked – yet

5 reasons Arsenal should not sack Mikel Arteta despite growing calls for his removal as manager following the 5-0 Premier League defeat to Emirates Marketing Project.

paininthearsenal.com

What he has had is time… time … and of course money

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The point is that fans who are judging are doing so using far more than 3 games (i'm sure you deep down know that too... )

See my comment above about Arsenal fans

Fans are typically fickle and naive. Most flip things to suit pre determined agendas whenever they can because they have “seen it all before”

In reality, whatever happens last season is very very irrelevant. It’s last season and the league starts afresh

It’s why teams and clubs change and evolve… like humans (but not really football fans, if we’re honest)

 

[glorygloryeze]

He did
But if you don’t count that season he hasn’t won anything
He took over when they were in the Europe too
The reason I flag It up is they didn’t back emery like they backed Arteta and personally I think he could have done as well there if they had backed him
Arteta has been well and truly backed and has made them better results wise. He now has to deliver

He absolutely does indeed have to deliver, you're right on that.
In terms of backing, you can imagine owners of clubs loosening purse strings once they feel like the coach is one for the long haul and/or said coach proves he's worth said backing. Jose got less backing than Conte you could argue, but that was likely because Conte proved to be more 'worthy' of backing (plus he generate more revenue to back him by getting CL).
Tbf to Arteta he won that FA Cup with the existing Emery team without having bought anyone himself at that time...

 

[Bedfordspurs]

He absolutely does indeed have to deliver, you're right on that.
In terms of backing, you can imagine owners of clubs loosening purse strings once they feel like the coach is one for the long haul and/or said coach proves he's worth said backing. Jose got less backing than Conte you could argue, but that was likely because Conte proved to be more 'worthy' of backing (plus he generate more revenue to back him by getting CL).
Tbf to Arteta he won that FA Cup with the existing Emery team without having bought anyone himself at that time...

Actually Jose got less backing IMO because the club was hit by COVID. That out the breaks on any plans (just my view)

Arteta did win the cup with Emery’s team. Hasn’t won a thing since and I don’t believe they have made a final since (really can’t remember)

As I said yesterday it has a very Poch at spurs feel to it for me.

 

[glorygloryeze]

What season are you referring too?

Their fans wanted him gone for his first two years there

Arsenal: 5 reasons Mikel Arteta should not be sacked – yet

5 reasons Arsenal should not sack Mikel Arteta despite growing calls for his removal as manager following the 5-0 Premier League defeat to Emirates Marketing Project.

paininthearsenal.com

What he has had is time… time … and of course money

The 2020-21 season, his first full one. He turned things around from christmas that season (remember when they beat Lampard's Chelsea on boxing day that season?)

If fans were in the stadium they might have been more toxic i agree. But he did turn things around to get more kudos/praise from the latter part of that season

 

[Finney Is Back]

View attachment 17608

City’s high line vs West Ham
It ended up with a shot that hit the bar
The difference was that city took their chances and West Ham didn’t
Sound familiar?
Of courses not because people will say we don’t have the same quality players. We don’t, but more so. when starting with NO striker. But you don’t then change everything else if you have a faith in the system

Indeed.... and that is with Emirates Marketing Project already winning the game, not chasing a winner.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Actually Jose got less backing IMO because the club was hit by COVID. That out the breaks on any plans (just my view)

Arteta did win the cup with Emery’s team. Hasn’t won a thing since and I don’t believe they have made a final since (really can’t remember)

As I said yesterday it has a very Poch at spurs feel to it for me.

Disagree on the first point (it was said here by @Grays_1890 that until we lost the first game of 2020-21 season club thought they'd done enough transfers that summer before then seeing how we played that game and then getting Bale, Reguillon and i think someone i can't remember).

Agreed on the final point

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The 2020-21 season, his first full one. He turned things around from christmas that season (remember when they beat Lampard's Chelsea on boxing day that season?)

If fans were in the stadium they might have been more toxic i agree. But he did turn things around to get more kudos/praise from the latter part of that season

They had an amazing start that season
I actually can’t remember much else because I didn’t watch them
I do ever their fans getting on at the club not sacking him.. a hell of a lot and that continued
I’m not sure if he did tune anything around because they finished in the same league place
Hence why the fans wanted him gone

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Disagree on the first point (it was said here by @Grays_1890 that until we lost the first game of 2020-21 season club thought they'd done enough transfers that summer before then seeing how we played that game and then getting Bale, Reguillon and i think someone i can't remember).

Agreed on the final point

No idea how a fan can know what the club planned to spend
What we do know, factually is the club was one of the hardest hit
We also know that even a macaron wouldn’t recruit Mou without knowing he needs backing
But we couldn’t back him next window because of that income.
I meant possible they planned on no transfer… but I seriously doubt it

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Indeed.... and that is with Emirates Marketing Project already winning the game, not chasing a winner.

But they do have better players
But more key IMO … 8 years of coaching that’s completely ingrained

 

[glorygloryeze]

See my comment above about Arsenal fans

Fans are typically fickle and naive. Most flip things to suit pre determined agendas whenever they can because they have “seen it all before”

In reality, whatever happens last season is very very irrelevant. It’s last season and the league starts afresh

It’s why teams and clubs change and evolve… like humans (but not really football fans, if we’re honest)

A lot of truth in that - but only if the reverse is also true: if a manager has stunk the place out with a woeful under-performance the previous season (to the point of nearly getting us relegated) and then starts with 3 woeful losses in a very similar or even worse-looking vein, is the previous season also irrelevant?

 

[glasgowspur]

I assume here you mean the stuff related to goading, ref backchat etc, because i for one would LOVE a few to be more concerned about marking or making movements off the ball lol

Yes, Romeros penchant for running fueds, maddison playing up to the crowd and our general ability to be distracted by non footballing matters.

 

[glorygloryeze]

No idea how a fan can know what the club planned to spend
What we do know, factually is the club was one of the hardest hit
We also know that even a macaron wouldn’t recruit Mou without knowing he needs backing
But we couldn’t back him next window because of that income.
I meant possible they planned on no transfer… but I seriously doubt it

I'll let @Grays_1890 defend himself wrt your first line.

You indeed wouldn't recruit Mourinho without a plan to splash the cash...but, then again you also wouldn't sack a specialist in cup finals on the eve of a cup final....so....

 

[Bedfordspurs]

A lot of truth in that - but only if the reverse is also true: if a manager has stunk the place out with a woeful under-performance the previous season (to the point of nearly getting us relegated) and then starts with 3 woeful losses in a very similar or even worse-looking vein, is the previous season also irrelevant?

Yes
Because you don’t keep a guy all summer
Back him
Then bin him after 3 games
That’s brain dead
We finished higher than the previous season don’t forget

And the comparison of taking off the first 10 games because we were good is just daft… can we then take off the 10 games we were without so many players… of course not as it’s a season not a few games that matters

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I'll let @Grays_1890 defend himself wrt your first line.

You indeed wouldn't recruit Mourinho without a plan to splash the cash...but, then again you also wouldn't sack a specialist in cup finals on the eve of a cup final....so....

Well you would if you wanted him gone sooner and didn’t want to pay his bonus
Bad call imo
But what I’ll also add is we would have won that final with a decent ref. The guy who scored should have been sent off

 

[Finney Is Back]

Actually Jose got less backing IMO because the club was hit by COVID. That out the breaks on any plans (just my view)

Arteta did win the cup with Emery’s team. Hasn’t won a thing since and I don’t believe they have made a final since (really can’t remember)

As I said yesterday it has a very Poch at spurs feel to it for me.

Except we binned off Pochettino at the first sign of trouble....