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Victor Wanyama

According to my Dad (who is still in contact with some of his old buddies in the player representation world) we have asked Wanyama's people to keep us informed of any developments with their player.
 
mjc23 said:
Koeman's potential departure could help with his transfer.
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Why? Les Reed is still their DoF/in charge of their transfer strategy.

And maybe Southampton will appoint Neil Lennon, which would likely make him extend his contract.
 
Because losing a manager will have players questioning their future at a club - but it seems like Wanyama is looking for an exit regardless
 
DubaiSpur said:
No, you are definitely not claiming to know that Poch wanted or did not want a particular player, and I freely admit that. However, you maintained that Stambouli and Fazio were effective, planned 'plug' signings, and it's very difficult to prove that assertion as well given the nature of their last-minute acquisition, general bargain-bin nature, sub-par performances and departures after just one season; so you're still speculating to a great extent.

Anyway, that isn't, as I said, the point. Your essential argument seems to be that the media baselessly links Poch to his former players as frequently as they do with random johnnies like Zlatan and Karol Linetty (to pick two examples). My argument is that this is not as baseless as you're making it out to be, because there has been concrete, verifiable proof of Poch moving for his former players, both in the recent past (as Schneiderlin and Rodriguez show) and further back (i.e, Osvaldo).

At the very least, they're speculating on a firmer footing than if they linked Poch with any random johnny. Quite possibly, they're also much closer to the truth. Dismissing such reports as baseless despite that is just ignoring the evidence based on which they're issuing them, imo. Are they all true? Definitely not. Are they more true than a report linking us to Jackson Martinez at Guangzhou Evergrande? Very possibly.
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My response was to the claim "The key thing is that Wanyama is clearly rated by Poch". I'm sorry, but "they're speculating on a firmer footing" does not support that claim.

Right now we have no way of knowing how highly Poch rates Wanyama as a potential player for us next season. Sure he probably doesn't think he's brick. But even if he thinks Wanyama is someone who could do a job for us there's a huge difference between "if we don't get anyone else and he's available at the end of the window fairly cheaply because of his contract situation we could move for him" and "Wanyama is one of the first couple of names on our shortlist of new central midfielders this season".

If you really want to re-enact the Stambouli and Fazio discussion I suggest we do it in another thread.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Wanyama has wanted out for 2 years. A new coach might make him rethink - like Poch did for Lloris and Verts
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We both know that is not not going to happen, he leaves this sumer for cash or next season for free.
For same strange reason you think he is mediocre, and of course you are wrong :)
Koeman wanted him to stay and now is off to Everton so no way is going to stay for the next manager. Besides if the next manager is any good he will be gone in 2 years as well
 
I don't understand how people don't rate Wanyama, he is basically Dier but alot more experienced. Pretty much the perfect DM for the Poch system. Has a great engine. Knows the manager. Wants to play CL.

Can you imagine having Wanyama and Son and Njie off the bench to see off a game, someone to shore up the defense and pace up top for the counter.
 
LutonSpurs said:
I don't understand how people don't rate Wanyama, he is basically Dier but alot more experienced. Pretty much the perfect DM for the Poch system. Has a great engine. Knows the manager. Wants to play CL.

Can you imagine having Wanyama and Son and Njie off the bench to see off a game, someone to shore up the defense and pace up top for the counter.
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If Poch and Mitchell think that he is good enough, that is good enough for me.

I would have thought that people would have given up writing off players by now considering how often the crowd gets it completely wrong.
 
milo said:
If Poch and Mitchell think that he is good enough, that is good enough for me.

I would have thought that people would have given up writing off players by now considering how often the crowd gets it completely wrong.
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Precisely. I would go further and say it is obvious he is good enough. He is not backup to Dier but actual competition for him. Dier was over played by us this season and this is a player who can do his role and maybe better.

We don't necessarily need to upgrade all our positions for next year, what we need is a squad and this potential buy makes so much sense to me.
 
milo said:
If Poch and Mitchell think that he is good enough, that is good enough for me.

I would have thought that people would have given up writing off players by now considering how often the crowd gets it completely wrong.
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That is highly dependent on how often they get it right too, which they do at times.

braineclipse said:
My response was to the claim "The key thing is that Wanyama is clearly rated by Poch". I'm sorry, but "they're speculating on a firmer footing" does not support that claim.

Right now we have no way of knowing how highly Poch rates Wanyama as a potential player for us next season. Sure he probably doesn't think he's brick. But even if he thinks Wanyama is someone who could do a job for us there's a huge difference between "if we don't get anyone else and he's available at the end of the window fairly cheaply because of his contract situation we could move for him" and "Wanyama is one of the first couple of names on our shortlist of new central midfielders this season".

If you really want to re-enact the Stambouli and Fazio discussion I suggest we do it in another thread.
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Wanyama is clearly rated by Poch. How highly, we don't really know. But you weren't speculating on the *extent* to which Poch might want him, as much as you were dismissing the idea that the press might be right at all when they link us with our former players. Which, as we've seen,has some basis in fact. That's all there is to it, really; if the press insist that Wanyama is top of our list or something by dint of his past experience with Poch, then sure, you have valid grounds for argument. But they're not doing that. Yet, anyway.

I don't have an interest in re-enacting the Stambouli and Fazio discussion for its own sake - I only used the example to point out that, just as you allege that people are speculating about how badly Poch wants certain players, you too were speculating too (equally baselessly) when you alleged that the squad status of those players was in any way 'planned' or anything other than a half-arsed last-minute effort. That's what we all do here, speculate. It isn't something that necessarily demeans an argument given that reality.
 
DubaiSpur said:
That is highly dependent on how often they get it right too, which they do at times.
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I can't think of any signings that we made last summer that were clearly wrong. Just as importantly, they have also been vindicated where they chose not to enter the market.
 
milo said:
I can't think of any signings that we made last summer that were clearly wrong. Just as importantly, they have also been vindicated where they chose not to enter the market.
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No, I meant the crowd. They're wrong about some players sometimes, but they're also right about them a fair number of times.
 
DubaiSpur said:
No, I meant the crowd. They're wrong about some players sometimes, but they're also right about them a fair number of times.
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The crowd consensus last summer was that we needed to sign a defensive midfielder (we didn't), Lamela wasn't up to it (he is) and that Walker wasn't good enough (he is). The only one that the crowd got right is the need for cover up front but were wrong about the impact of not having it.
 
milo said:
The crowd consensus last summer was that we needed to sign a defensive midfielder (we didn't), Lamela wasn't up to it (he is) and that Walker wasn't good enough (he is). The only one that the crowd got right is the need for cover up front but were wrong about the impact of not having it.
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The crowd consensus is a more ill-defined thing, especially when it comes to signings we should or should not have made. I'm referring mainly to the fans' estimation of the players we already have, which range from 'brick' to 'great'; your point was that the crowd shouldn't be writing players off at all given how some of them have turned their careers around under Poch, but I'd suggest that despite that, the crowd twigs when a player is brick or not with at least a respectable frequency.
 
DubaiSpur said:
The crowd consensus is a more ill-defined thing, especially when it comes to signings we should or should not have made. I'm referring mainly to the fans' estimation of the players we already have, which range from 'brick' to 'great'; your point was that the crowd shouldn't be writing players off at all given how some of them have turned their careers around under Poch, but I'd suggest that despite that, the crowd twigs when a player is brick or not with at least a respectable frequency.
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Indeed. Everyone is writing off the 5 players who were injured pretty much all of last season - Son, Njie, Mason, Bentaleb and Pritchard.

Walker and Dembele (slightly different situation) were in exactly the same position 12 months ago.
 
DubaiSpur said:
That is highly dependent on how often they get it right too, which they do at times.

Wanyama is clearly rated by Poch. How highly, we don't really know. But you weren't speculating on the *extent* to which Poch might want him, as much as you were dismissing the idea that the press might be right at all when they link us with our former players. Which, as we've seen,has some basis in fact. That's all there is to it, really; if the press insist that Wanyama is top of our list or something by dint of his past experience with Poch, then sure, you have valid grounds for argument. But they're not doing that. Yet, anyway.

I don't have an interest in re-enacting the Stambouli and Fazio discussion for its own sake - I only used the example to point out that, just as you allege that people are speculating about how badly Poch wants certain players, you too were speculating too (equally baselessly) when you alleged that the squad status of those players was in any way 'planned' or anything other than a half-arsed last-minute effort. That's what we all do here, speculate. It isn't something that necessarily demeans an argument given that reality.
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I think we're talking past each other. My point has been that we don't know how highly Poch rates Wanyama. I'm not dismissing that the press might be getting this one right, I'm pointing out that one shouldn't try to make conclusions about Pochettino's intentions based on what the press is saying on this.

Of course we all speculate to some extent. So you don't want anyone to point that out at any time then? Again, not looking to re-hash old arguments, but if didn't I present that as a possible interpretation of the situation I probably should have.

Back to Wanyama. I think he looks somewhere between decent and good. I'll freely admit I haven't watched a ton of Southampton the last couple of seasons. But he looks limited on the ball to me. To compare him to Dier, I think Dier has been timid in his use of the ball in the last couple of months. But he showed earlier in the season that he has real quality on the ball at least at times. He's young and could improve. Towards the end of the season though Dier not being better on the ball was a limitation for us in my opinion. Wanyama has those same limitations, perhaps to a greater extent. Defensively he would be very good cover I think, but I hope we aim higher than that.
 
DubaiSpur said:
The crowd consensus is a more ill-defined thing, especially when it comes to signings we should or should not have made. I'm referring mainly to the fans' estimation of the players we already have, which range from 'brick' to 'great'; your point was that the crowd shouldn't be writing players off at all given how some of them have turned their careers around under Poch, but I'd suggest that despite that, the crowd twigs when a player is brick or not with at least a respectable frequency.
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I'm not so sure about that buddy. If you look at our first team and see how many of them the crowd have said should be moved on either because they're not good enough or they have no chance of fulfilling their potential, that would be a long list. Rose, Walker, Dembele, Lamela, Kane to name but a few have all had their times where "the crowd" have said that they should be nowhere near the first team. Even now, people talk about those players we bought with Bale's money and say what a waste, but really were they? I think the crowd have just not shown enough patience. It's easy to twig now that those players are awesome, but we cannot rely on that. If we had relied on crowd sentiment then none of those players would be in the team and would be elsewhere plying their trade, and the same crowd would be saying how "sexy" it is that we sold some real talent for a tuppence.

Crowd sentiment is nothing to rely on at all. It gets it right when it is plainly obvious and that's about it. The fact that the same crowd can never agree with each other is another point entirely!
 
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