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UKIP

Like most minor paties, UKIP can promise the world knowing they will never occupy the Treasury benches. They will never gain power. The major parties will test the wind and make policy adjustments, making UKIP irrelevant. Remember when the Social Democrats first started? Well ahead of Labour in the polls. Labour changed leaders, went to the right and they disappeared. Jenkins, Rogers and Owen? No minor party has gained real traction in Britain since Labour in the twenties.

Its easy to say the party is not going anywhere when it is relatively small, however the elections which will determine if it has gained further traction or not.

I actually think the bigger parties have the problem of not being able to satisfy the needs of the majority whereas UKIP have put forward some interesting viewpoints. Why keep doing the same thing badly and vote in the main parties.
 
Its easy to say the party is not going anywhere when it is relatively small, however the elections which will determine if it has gained further traction or not.

I actually think the bigger parties have the problem of not being able to satisfy the needs of the majority whereas UKIP have put forward some interesting viewpoints. Why keep doing the same thing badly and vote in the main parties.

The Social Democrats had three of the brightest intellectuals of the late 20th century in their party and still got nowhere. Ultimately parties have to attract capable people as candidates. Have UKIP done this? What first rate minds are running for them? I would think very few because they advocate populist and simplistic policies to deal with complex problems.
 
The Social Democrats had three of the brightest intellectuals of the late 20th century in their party and still got nowhere. Ultimately parties have to attract capable people as candidates. Have UKIP done this? What first rate minds are running for them? I would think very few because they advocate populist and simplistic policies to deal with complex problems.

Im sorry but Miliband is hardly one of the brightest minds. At least Farage has capivated the EU parliament after gaining his seat, whereas Miliband has not even been able to do that within his own party.

As for the populist comments you make, it is obvious that a Labour government would simply create another voter base with free handouts again. That is quite a simple solution for them which results in a complex issue for the rest of us. At least with UKIP there is direction as to where they stand on the issue, and as the election gets closer im sure they will be keen to expand upon this.
 
Like most minor paties, UKIP can promise the world knowing they will never occupy the Treasury benches. They will never gain power. The major parties will test the wind and make policy adjustments, making UKIP irrelevant. Remember when the Social Democrats first started? Well ahead of Labour in the polls. Labour changed leaders, went to the right and they disappeared. Jenkins, Rogers and Owen? No minor party has gained real traction in Britain since Labour in the twenties.

While I agree with the general point, the Lib-Dems are in government now, which may be the death of them.

The irony is that being in government means they may have missed a major opportunity. I'm assuming that a lot of the UKIP vote is a protest vote against the government and for people who haven't forgiven Labour for Blair-Brown there is nowhere else to go. If the Conservatives had done a bit better and gained an outright majority, the Lib-Dems could be the beneficiaries now. Alternatively if there is real demand for UKIP, there could have been a four-way race, again giving the Lib-Dems a chance that their stint in government seems likely to deny them.
 
:ross: at the level of understanding in this and the soldier thread. Always the same members jumping down people's throats playing the high and mighty card. Would love to meet these people in real life!!
 
Just reading what UKIP want for this country, interesting

What We Stand For

These are anxious and troubled times. As crisis has followed crisis our politicians are seen to be impotent

in the face of the dangers rearing up all around us.

Violent crime erupts in our cities. Jobs are lost and services failing under a tide of immigration, pensions have been crippled and cash savings yield almost nothing.

Millions are now without adequate means of existence. Fear of old age darkens the future. Parliament is held in contempt. Our currency has collapsed by 30%. Chaos engulfs Europe’s very financial existence and, here at home, taxation now bears down on those least able to pay whilst Britain goes ever deeper into deficit.

A gulf has opened between the ruling elite and the public. Each of the establishment main parties are now Social Democrats and offer voters no real choice.

UKIP alone holds that the rescue of the British people depends on withdrawal from the EU to regain our self-governing democracy so allowing the relief of business from crushing regulation and the less well off from the burden of taxes, shutting off the flood of immigrants and freeing enterprise.

1 Restore Self Government & Democracy

• Commissioners in Brussels dictate 75% of our laws. None can be repealed by Parliament. We cannot vote for those who make these laws – we cannot remove them.

• EU controls Immigration, Business and Employment, Financial Services, Fishing, Farming, Law and Order, Energy and Trade. It seeks now to control Foreign Affairs and Tax.

• The British people must decide through an immediate referendum if we stay in the EU or to come out and claw back independent power over our national life. We do not have to be ruled by this regime to work with our European neighbours who depend on us for their markets.

• Abolish the EU’s bureaucratic VAT and replace it with a local sales tax to support Local Government finance and to make it
accountable at the ballot box.

• Give the public power to require binding local and national referenda on major issues.

2 Rebuild Prosperity

• By leaving the EU we save over £45m a day plus £60bn a year due to EU trade barriers, business regulation, waste, fraud,
administration costs and the destruction of our fishing industry.

• According to Open Europe EU business regulations cost over £20bn a year. Abolish those determined not essential by a
commission appointed by Parliament.

• Take 4.5 million of low incomes out of tax altogether with a simple, flat rate income tax. With a threshold set at minimum wage.

• Financial services yield £61bn in tax revenues or 12% of the UK total. Exclude the City from EU controls.

• UK national debt is to reach over £1.4 trillion by the end of the parliament. This is unacceptable.

• UK national debt will exceed £1.4 trillion by the end of this Parliament by which time Osborne’s cuts will not even equal our EU contributions. Public spending is increasing and the Coalition’s cuts do not scratch the surface of Labour’s deficit. We must cut down Government if we are to return to a sound economy.

• EU ‘renewable’ energy rules will double electricity bills by 2020. Global warming is not proven - wind power is futile. Scrap all green taxes, wind turbine subsidies and adopt nuclear power to free us from dependence on fossil fuels and foreign oil and gas.

• Quangos cost us £60bn each year – at least half the cost of the NHS. Bring them under Parliament’s control and cut the cost substantially.

• Cut taxes on small businesses and abolish the tax on work – Employers’ National Insurance.

• Make real and rigorous cuts in foreign aid and replace with free trade.

3 Protect Our Borders & Defend Our Country

• The tide of mass EU immigration has pushed down wages and restricted job opportunities. Only by leaving the EU can we regain control of our borders.

• Freeze permanent immigration for 5 years. Immigrants must be fluent in English, have minimum education levels and show they can financially support themselves.

• Bring in a points based visa system and time limited work permits.

• The State must defend its peoples. Keep our nuclear deterrent and make increased defence spending a clear priority, even in these difficult times, to underpin Britain’s global role.

4 Safeguards Against Crime

• No cuts to front line policing

• Make sentences mean what they say – life must mean life.

• Double prison places to enforce zero tolerance on crime.

• Establish locally elected County Police Boards to set policing aims approved by
voters.

• Scrap the European Arrest Warrant.

• Repeal the Human Rights Act to end abuses by convicted criminals and illegal immigrants.

• Free the police force from the straitjacket of political correctness and ‘targets’.

5 Care And Support For All

• Assure for all people prompt and caring treatment in ill health.

• Radically simplify NHS management and set up locally elected County Health Boards.

• Launch partnerships with the private and charity sectors to increase efficiency and choice and bring in health care vouchers for those who wish to opt out of the NHS.

• Give parents school vouchers to allow them to choose their children’s schools.

• Support grammar schools and vocational education.

• End the 50% university target for school leavers , scrap tuition fees and reintroduce student grants.

• Roll all State pensions and benefits into a simple, substantial Citizen’s Pension.

• Ensure that benefits are only for those who have lived here for over 5 years. Make welfare a safety net for the needy, not a bed for the lazy.

6 Our Way Of Life

• Our traditional values have been undermined. Children are taught to be ashamed of our past. Multiculturalism has split our society. Political correctness is stifling free speech.

• The law of the land must be single and apply to us all. We oppose any other system of law.

• End the ban on smoking in allocated rooms in public houses, clubs and hotels.

• Hold County wide referenda on the hunting ban.

UKIP is a patriotic party that believes in putting Britain first. To shore up the collapsing Euro the EU is now seeking to pull away the props of our national economy - control of taxation and spending. Only UKIP will give the power to the British people to regain self-government


hmm quite a bit of that sounds sensible...there are some carefully worded ones that worry me though

"• Our traditional values have been undermined. Children are taught to be ashamed of our past. Multiculturalism has split our society. Political correctness is stifling free speech." i am not sure why they dont just say we should be allowed to have free speech. what does political correctness have to do with anything? what is it they are trying to say that political correctness is blocking exactly?

and this one

"• Free the police force from the straitjacket of political correctness and ‘targets’."
If it means anything like i think it means then no thanks. I have been profiled by police before and i brick you not its cause i was the only "big black guy" in their line of sight. not to mention enough times of getting 'random' stops. sheesh
 
on second look , there are a few more that worry me and makes me think this thing was written by a teenager thats been wronged.....sitting on an island somewhere

some of these things arent realistic together
 
on second look , there are a few more that worry me and makes me think this thing was written by a teenager thats been wronged.....sitting on an island somewhere

some of these things arent realistic together


To be honest, as a country we have been wronged by the policy of current and recent governments.
 
hmm quite a bit of that sounds sensible...there are some carefully worded ones that worry me though

"• Our traditional values have been undermined. Children are taught to be ashamed of our past. Multiculturalism has split our society. Political correctness is stifling free speech." i am not sure why they dont just say we should be allowed to have free speech. what does political correctness have to do with anything? what is it they are trying to say that political correctness is blocking exactly?

and this one

"• Free the police force from the straitjacket of political correctness and ‘targets’."
If it means anything like i think it means then no thanks. I have been profiled by police before and i brick you not its cause i was the only "big black guy" in their line of sight. not to mention enough times of getting 'random' stops. sheesh

About the stop search - they stopped you cos of your skin colour did they?
 
hmm quite a bit of that sounds sensible...there are some carefully worded ones that worry me though

"• Our traditional values have been undermined. Children are taught to be ashamed of our past. Multiculturalism has split our society. Political correctness is stifling free speech." i am not sure why they dont just say we should be allowed to have free speech. what does political correctness have to do with anything? what is it they are trying to say that political correctness is blocking exactly?

They can't simply call for free speech at the same time as trying to shut down speech they don't like (radical muslims). So they have to play word games.

It's typical of the modern so called "Libertarian", always telling people what they can do and say.
 
They can't simply call for free speech at the same time as trying to shut down speech they don't like (radical muslims). So they have to play word games.

It's typical of the modern so called "Libertarian", always telling people what they can do and say.

that is EXACTLY what i was thinking. phew thank heavens, i thought i was going nuts

it sounds like they want to open the door to things they agree with but shut down others they dont which in turn goes against the topics they are running on anyway!!!
 
:ross: at the level of understanding in this and the soldier thread. Always the same members jumping down people's throats playing the high and mighty card. Would love to meet these people in real life!!

Right back at you! But I wouldn't want to meet you in real life. No thank you.
 
While I agree with the general point, the Lib-Dems are in government now, which may be the death of them.

The irony is that being in government means they may have missed a major opportunity. I'm assuming that a lot of the UKIP vote is a protest vote against the government and for people who haven't forgiven Labour for Blair-Brown there is nowhere else to go. If the Conservatives had done a bit better and gained an outright majority, the Lib-Dems could be the beneficiaries now. Alternatively if there is real demand for UKIP, there could have been a four-way race, again giving the Lib-Dems a chance that their stint in government seems likely to deny them.

Yep.

The irony is that most commetted UKIP voters detest Labour, but under first past the post, their vote helps Labour candidates win.
 
I read something about a study on where the UKIP vote comes from. It's primarily Conservative, as one would expect, but also from Labour. According to the study the optimum for Labour is 16% UKIP support. Up to 16% the Conservatives suffer most, but as the UKIP vote increases further Labour seem to lose more.
 
Yep.

The irony is that most commetted UKIP voters detest Labour, but under first past the post, their vote helps Labour candidates win.

That is probably true.

I spoke at length to my local Tory councillor when he came knocking recently, prior to the local elections.
After I had told him what I thought of Cameron and his (lack of) policies, we discussed the UKIP vote, and he claimed that in my area, UKIP were actually taking more votes from Labour than the Tories. A comment that was reflected when the results were published, a sthe Tory majority over Labour in my (and other) wards increased. Even though the Tory vote was down overall.
 
That is probably true.

I spoke at length to my local Tory councillor when he came knocking recently, prior to the local elections.
After I had told him what I thought of Cameron and his (lack of) policies, we discussed the UKIP vote, and he claimed that in my area, UKIP were actually taking more votes from Labour than the Tories. A comment that was reflected when the results were published, a sthe Tory majority over Labour in my (and other) wards increased. Even though the Tory vote was down overall.


"He would say that" to quote a well known young lady.

Even though his comment was born out by facts any candidate standing on your doorstep would have told you that his share was holding up and it was his opposite number losing votes. Call me cynical.
 
"He would say that" to quote a well known young lady.

Even though his comment was born out by facts any candidate standing on your doorstep would have told you that his share was holding up and it was his opposite number losing votes. Call me cynical.

Like call me cynical that one believes what you just wrote! ;)
 
Looked at that song video about the EDL, he made one for LibDems lol

[video=youtube;KUDjRZ30SNo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUDjRZ30SNo&feature=share&list=PLF43B04128BE987AC[/video]

:ross:
 
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