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UKIP

I know of one British Muslim of Pakistani origin who is a member of UKIP from up north. I wouldn't draw huge parallels between them and the EDL but as Crawley said all parties have some dodgy characters. I feel UKIP has a few too many for me to consider them at all. But obviously that is just my opinion.
 
Crawley said:
As a whole, they are un-supportable. Would never ever entertain the way they are.

I do not want to see violence of any sort on our streets, and all they are is the latest protest platform for extremists that used to be either NF, BNP or worse.

But, like ANY party (I don't see EDL as a party, by the way) there will always be something they say or do that makes you think.......ok, fair point.
Personally, I detest Labour, Liberal, and now even Tory policy. But within all of those, there will always be things that I can accept or agree with.

To sum up, AS, because there seems some doubt here, I am against extremism of any sort, but I am very patriotic (British patriotism, not English) and I will speak my mind when I see things that are specifically aimed at the core values of this nation. And, as it is the topic of conversation right now, that particularly includes the way SOME radical islamists are allowed to walk our streets and demand death to our soldiers, police and others, and refuse to accept the laws of this country.

Is that so bad?


If we had a far left (and I mean far, far left) uprising demanding the re-distribution of wealth and oppression of free-speech, I would be as up-in-arms as I am now.
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Its a fair post , and a good one. At least arent sitting there thinking that the EDL are a bunch of okay guys that just simply want the best for britain.
I can pretty much agree with the sentiments that if you dont like it here. You are more than free to leave and go where you do like the laws..pretty straight forward

I want to come back to something though....you are patriotic? what kind of britain are you looking to return? it wasnt that long ago that 'good old best of british' had whites only location, mobbed interracial couples, victimised homosexuals and basically had entire nations under the thumb openly.
even division with classes on what class of people were able to get a certain level of education and certain type of jobs

you see i think the problem is a social economic one, not a race one, and not a religious one. I think if you allow the poverty stricken and down right deprived locations to prosper in the way that they are currently doing now then people have to much time on their hands to stew over things that are negative...they are surrounded by negativity and distrust and anti-western ideology.

what kind of Britain are we talking about that would make you proud to be british?
 
LutonSpurs said:
I know of one British Muslim of Pakistani origin who is a member of UKIP from up north. I wouldn't draw huge parallels between them and the EDL but as Crawley said all parties have some dodgy characters. I feel UKIP has a few too many for me to consider them at all. But obviously that is just my opinion.
Click to expand...

you are fudging kidding me??!!!!

they must be blackmailing him or something
 
africanspurs said:
Its a fair post , and a good one. At least arent sitting there thinking that the EDL are a bunch of okay guys that just simply want the best for britain.
I can pretty much agree with the sentiments that if you dont like it here. You are more than free to leave and go where you do like the laws..pretty straight forward

I want to come back to something though....you are patriotic? what kind of britain are you looking to return? it wasnt that long ago that 'good old best of british' had whites only location, mobbed interracial couples, victimised homosexuals and basically had entire nations under the thumb openly.
even division with classes on what class of people were able to get a certain level of education and certain type of jobs

you see i think the problem is a social economic one, not a race one, and not a religious one. I think if you allow the poverty stricken and down right deprived locations to prosper in the way that they are currently doing now then people have to much time on their hands to stew over things that are negative...they are surrounded by negativity and distrust and anti-western ideology.

what kind of Britain are we talking about that would make you proud to be british?
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Lots of questions there, AS.

I will get round to answer them all, but I've got to walk the dog and take my son golfing then. I'm a busy guy you know!!!!

One quick point I will make....................I am completely aware that this country would not survive (nor would it have survived in the past) without the input of immigrants (of all nations). Some have become highly successful, others do jobs that the lazy, good for nothing indigenous population just won't do, and for that I will always admire them.

I do not think the protesting radicals that are the subject of discussion at the moment are of any benefit to this country at all.

Right. I'm outta here.

have a good day everyone.
 
Crawley said:
Lots of questions there, AS.

I will get round to answer them all, but I've got to walk the dog and take my son golfing then. I'm a busy guy you know!!!!

One quick point I will make....................I am completely aware that this country would not survive (nor would it have survived in the past) without the input of immigrants (of all nations). Some have become highly successful, others do jobs that the lazy, good for nothing indigenous population just won't do, and for that I will always admire them.

I do not think the protesting radicals that are the subject of discussion at the moment are of any benefit to this country at all.
Right. I'm outta here.

have a good day everyone.
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I don't think you'll have anyone disagreeing with that ;)
 
Just reading what UKIP want for this country, interesting

What We Stand For

These are anxious and troubled times. As crisis has followed crisis our politicians are seen to be impotent

in the face of the dangers rearing up all around us.

Violent crime erupts in our cities. Jobs are lost and services failing under a tide of immigration, pensions have been crippled and cash savings yield almost nothing.

Millions are now without adequate means of existence. Fear of old age darkens the future. Parliament is held in contempt. Our currency has collapsed by 30%. Chaos engulfs Europe’s very financial existence and, here at home, taxation now bears down on those least able to pay whilst Britain goes ever deeper into deficit.

A gulf has opened between the ruling elite and the public. Each of the establishment main parties are now Social Democrats and offer voters no real choice.

UKIP alone holds that the rescue of the British people depends on withdrawal from the EU to regain our self-governing democracy so allowing the relief of business from crushing regulation and the less well off from the burden of taxes, shutting off the flood of immigrants and freeing enterprise.

1 Restore Self Government & Democracy

• Commissioners in Brussels dictate 75% of our laws. None can be repealed by Parliament. We cannot vote for those who make these laws – we cannot remove them.

• EU controls Immigration, Business and Employment, Financial Services, Fishing, Farming, Law and Order, Energy and Trade. It seeks now to control Foreign Affairs and Tax.

• The British people must decide through an immediate referendum if we stay in the EU or to come out and claw back independent power over our national life. We do not have to be ruled by this regime to work with our European neighbours who depend on us for their markets.

• Abolish the EU’s bureaucratic VAT and replace it with a local sales tax to support Local Government finance and to make it
accountable at the ballot box.

• Give the public power to require binding local and national referenda on major issues.

2 Rebuild Prosperity

• By leaving the EU we save over £45m a day plus £60bn a year due to EU trade barriers, business regulation, waste, fraud,
administration costs and the destruction of our fishing industry.

• According to Open Europe EU business regulations cost over £20bn a year. Abolish those determined not essential by a
commission appointed by Parliament.

• Take 4.5 million of low incomes out of tax altogether with a simple, flat rate income tax. With a threshold set at minimum wage.

• Financial services yield £61bn in tax revenues or 12% of the UK total. Exclude the City from EU controls.

• UK national debt is to reach over £1.4 trillion by the end of the parliament. This is unacceptable.

• UK national debt will exceed £1.4 trillion by the end of this Parliament by which time Osborne’s cuts will not even equal our EU contributions. Public spending is increasing and the Coalition’s cuts do not scratch the surface of Labour’s deficit. We must cut down Government if we are to return to a sound economy.

• EU ‘renewable’ energy rules will double electricity bills by 2020. Global warming is not proven - wind power is futile. Scrap all green taxes, wind turbine subsidies and adopt nuclear power to free us from dependence on fossil fuels and foreign oil and gas.

• Quangos cost us £60bn each year – at least half the cost of the NHS. Bring them under Parliament’s control and cut the cost substantially.

• Cut taxes on small businesses and abolish the tax on work – Employers’ National Insurance.

• Make real and rigorous cuts in foreign aid and replace with free trade.

3 Protect Our Borders & Defend Our Country

• The tide of mass EU immigration has pushed down wages and restricted job opportunities. Only by leaving the EU can we regain control of our borders.

• Freeze permanent immigration for 5 years. Immigrants must be fluent in English, have minimum education levels and show they can financially support themselves.

• Bring in a points based visa system and time limited work permits.

• The State must defend its peoples. Keep our nuclear deterrent and make increased defence spending a clear priority, even in these difficult times, to underpin Britain’s global role.

4 Safeguards Against Crime

• No cuts to front line policing

• Make sentences mean what they say – life must mean life.

• Double prison places to enforce zero tolerance on crime.

• Establish locally elected County Police Boards to set policing aims approved by
voters.

• Scrap the European Arrest Warrant.

• Repeal the Human Rights Act to end abuses by convicted criminals and illegal immigrants.

• Free the police force from the straitjacket of political correctness and ‘targets’.

5 Care And Support For All

• Assure for all people prompt and caring treatment in ill health.

• Radically simplify NHS management and set up locally elected County Health Boards.

• Launch partnerships with the private and charity sectors to increase efficiency and choice and bring in health care vouchers for those who wish to opt out of the NHS.

• Give parents school vouchers to allow them to choose their children’s schools.

• Support grammar schools and vocational education.

• End the 50% university target for school leavers , scrap tuition fees and reintroduce student grants.

• Roll all State pensions and benefits into a simple, substantial Citizen’s Pension.

• Ensure that benefits are only for those who have lived here for over 5 years. Make welfare a safety net for the needy, not a bed for the lazy.

6 Our Way Of Life

• Our traditional values have been undermined. Children are taught to be ashamed of our past. Multiculturalism has split our society. Political correctness is stifling free speech.

• The law of the land must be single and apply to us all. We oppose any other system of law.

• End the ban on smoking in allocated rooms in public houses, clubs and hotels.

• Hold County wide referenda on the hunting ban.

UKIP is a patriotic party that believes in putting Britain first. To shore up the collapsing Euro the EU is now seeking to pull away the props of our national economy - control of taxation and spending. Only UKIP will give the power to the British people to regain self-government
 
Let's hope they run well in the next election, because if they do, Labour will bolt it in. Three cornered contests, with the Tories bleeding support to UKIP means Labour will win seats normally a shoe in for the Tories.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
Let's hope they run well in the next election, because if they do, Labour will bolt it in. Three cornered contests, with the Tories bleeding support to UKIP means Labour will win seats normally a shoe in for the Tories.
Click to expand...

Do you want Labour back in after the fudging mess they have made during their last reign ??
 
markysimmo said:
Do you want Labour back in after the fudging mess they have made during their last reign ??
Click to expand...


You make out as if I'm the only Labour supporter on the planet. Aren't Labour well ahead in the polls? BTW, things arent looking too clever right now either, are they?
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
You make out as if I'm the only Labour supporter on the planet. Aren't Labour well ahead in the polls? BTW, things arent looking too clever right now either, are they?
Click to expand...

Are people seriously stupid, we are we in such a financial mess, oh yes Labour, lets spunk loads and pay for it later, yeh good one...
 
I aIctually think Ukip are now showing to be a credible alternative, peopke taking without a stake in society or any intention to have a stake, and then coming back for more is big issue for me. The end to benefit led immigration would be a great starting point, and their policy would begin to stifle that.
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...or-risk-losing-up-to-92bn-a-year-8622925.html

Found this article quite interesting because I feel that the media has become fervently anti-EU when imo it isn't quite as clear cut as it is made out to be.

I don't have too much of an opinion on the EU, I don't feel myself well informed enough to make powerful statements either way. And I don't like to make statements unless I feel I'm fully informed. My opinion on it pretty much goes as far as thinking that if it was as made out, one of our many PMs since we joined would have manoeuvred us out.

Guess we'll see I guess if the Tories win the next election and keep their promises (though a referendum isn't even legally binding in the UK if I understand it correctly)
 
THFC said:
I aIctually think Ukip are now showing to be a credible alternative, peopke taking without a stake in society or any intention to have a stake, and then coming back for more is big issue for me. The end to benefit led immigration would be a great starting point, and their policy would begin to stifle that.
Click to expand...



Like most minor paties, UKIP can promise the world knowing they will never occupy the Treasury benches. They will never gain power. The major parties will test the wind and make policy adjustments, making UKIP irrelevant. Remember when the Social Democrats first started? Well ahead of Labour in the polls. Labour changed leaders, went to the right and they disappeared. Jenkins, Rogers and Owen? No minor party has gained real traction in Britain since Labour in the twenties.
 
jts1882 said:
I'm not surprised. People make strange choices sometimes.

I remember reading about a few non-white members in the BNP, a party that used to ban them in it's constitution, so much more strange than UKIP.

edit: it might be only one, an old Sikh: http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/public-accounts/2010/02/white-member-bnp-catch-160
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I know a couple of Jews that are in the EDL. Isn't there one Sikh guy they trot out every once in a while?

There's apparently a Muslim member as well.

We live in a crazy world!
 
What We Stand For

1 Restore Self Government & Democracy

• Abolish the EU’s bureaucratic VAT and replace it with a local sales tax to support Local Government finance and to make it
accountable at the ballot box.

• Take 4.5 million of low incomes out of tax altogether with a simple, flat rate income tax. With a threshold set at minimum wage.

• UK national debt is to reach over £1.4 trillion by the end of the parliament. This is unacceptable.

• UK national debt will exceed £1.4 trillion by the end of this Parliament by which time Osborne’s cuts will not even equal our EU contributions. Public spending is increasing and the Coalition’s cuts do not scratch the surface of Labour’s deficit. We must cut down Government if we are to return to a sound economy.

• EU ‘renewable’ energy rules will double electricity bills by 2020. Global warming is not proven - wind power is futile. Scrap all green taxes, wind turbine subsidies and adopt nuclear power to free us from dependence on fossil fuels and foreign oil and gas.

• Cut taxes on small businesses and abolish the tax on work – Employers’ National Insurance.

• Make real and rigorous cuts in foreign aid and replace with free trade.

• The tide of mass EU immigration has pushed down wages and restricted job opportunities. Only by leaving the EU can we regain control of our borders.

• Freeze permanent immigration for 5 years. Immigrants must be fluent in English, have minimum education levels and show they can financially support themselves.

• Bring in a points based visa system and time limited work permits.

• The State must defend its peoples. Keep our nuclear deterrent and make increased defence spending a clear priority, even in these difficult times, to underpin Britain’s global role.

• No cuts to front line policing

• Make sentences mean what they say – life must mean life.

• Double prison places to enforce zero tolerance on crime.

• Establish locally elected County Police Boards to set policing aims approved by
voters.

• Repeal the Human Rights Act to end abuses by convicted criminals and illegal immigrants.

• Free the police force from the straitjacket of political correctness and ‘targets’.

• Give parents school vouchers to allow them to choose their children’s schools.

• Ensure that benefits are only for those who have lived here for over 5 years. Make welfare a safety net for the needy, not a bed for the lazy.

• Our traditional values have been undermined. Children are taught to be ashamed of our past. Multiculturalism has split our society. Political correctness is stifling free speech.

• The law of the land must be single and apply to us all. We oppose any other system of law.

• End the ban on smoking in allocated rooms in public houses, clubs and hotels.
Click to expand...

A lot of the UKIP policies are similar to the Tea Party in the US: less government, too much debt, cut taxes, less immigration, less foreign aid, global warming is a myth, energy self-sufficiency, cut taxes, more defence spending, etc
 
Libitarianist. Yes, it's part of the same mindset with some cultural deviations. A corporate wonder land. Gee that end to the smoking ban is a first order social issue.:ross:
 
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